The Arn Anderson podcast

[Dooley]

Exactly. Arn and Tully pinballing around for the Stallions doesn't make you go "Wow, I wonder if they could beat Demolition for the titles", it makes you think "Geez, they barely beat those guys that never win".

Vince had eyes on Jake being a top heel. Having him give too much (especially early on) only makes you think "wow, that guy with the snake sure gets beat up a lot".

Flair stooging for George South for 15 minutes doesn't make South look better, it makes Flair look worse. 

 

[Matt D]

I'm still waging my war on GMT years after.

[El-P]

I don't agree with everything that is been said here (and agree with some of it), but I'm glad people seem to realize Flair was a total go-go-go worker and had piss-poor psychology in the grand scheme of things. I've been saying that for years now.  Flair/Angle/Toyota = the same. (and I do think they were great for their own reasons)

[SomethingSavage]

Well, to be fair, I brought Flair into the conversation because he is one of the most prolific examples. Arn didn't mention him in the original discussion, just so we're clear.

It's not something you can entirely pin on anyone specific. That whole crop of JCP heels seemed to adhere to the same mentality - as Arn noted, the Horsemen were about "shitting it and getting it." They were bumping and feeding for anything with a pulse.

And, while I can absolutely agree that NY and Memphis reached cartoon levels of ridiculousness, it's also fair to say that the idea of "always having a great match" in Crockett is just as detrimental if you ALWAYS apply it, regardless of opponents or card placement.

You can't treat George South like he's Sting and *not* expect diminishing returns on reaction, on credibility, on perceived value, and on everything you do in general.

I mean, of course there will always be the diehards who will subscribe and follow and give you a free pass. But the broader, wider audience isn't going to buy that shit time & time again. Some of them never "unsee" the time you got your ass whipped by a nameless, faceless nobody.

And for what? All in the name of "putting on the best match possible." Ugh. Gross. It's a mindset that runs rampant to the detriment of the business today.

In fact, the only reason it's any worse now than it was in JCP is because nowadays they literally verbalize it *in canon* and ON TELEVISION - not just when they're blowing smoke and patting each other on the ass at the bars.

[El-P]

No, what is the most interesting in the latest Arn podcast, apart from the Buddy Landell story, is when he said that Ricky Morton back then looked like he was 12 years old. *cough* Marko Stunt *cough*

[Matt D]

2 hours ago, El-P said:

No, what is the most interesting in the latest Arn podcast, apart from the Buddy Landell story, is when he said that Ricky Morton back then looked like he was 12 years old. *cough* Marko Stunt *cough*

Which, in context, was specifically about men not being jealous that their girlfriends went nuts over him. So in that very specific way it was a positive and not a negative. Is Marko a draw with that same set (girls dragged to the arena by their boyfriends) in 2019? Honest question as I don't know a ton about any of this.

[El-P]

8 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Which, in context, was specifically about men not being jealous that their girlfriends went nuts over him.

The fact is Ricky Morton looked like a kid. That's the main point. And really, considering the Rock'n'Roll were a blowjob tag team, maybe the men should have been jealous. 

8 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Is Marko a draw with that same set (girls dragged to the arena by their boyfriends) in 2019? Honest question as I don't know a ton about any of this.

Is there even a point asking such a question ? The contexts are entirely different. The audience is entirely different. The business is entirely different. I guess the closest point of reference would be Jungle Boy actually. But really, everything is so different.

I was just making fun of the crowd of people saying Marko Stunt had no business in wrestling when infact, in the old-sKool context of the golden age of the greatest purest pro-wrestling form evah, Ricky Morton looked like a kid, as said Arn Anderson. 

[Matt D]

35 minutes ago, El-P said:

The fact is Ricky Morton looked like a kid. That's the main point. And really, considering the Rock'n'Roll were a blowjob tag team, maybe the men should have been jealous. 

Is there even a point asking such a question ? The contexts are entirely different. The audience is entirely different. The business is entirely different. I guess the closest point of reference would be Jungle Boy actually. But really, everything is so different.

I was just making fun of the crowd of people saying Marko Stunt had no business in wrestling when infact, in the old-sKool context of the golden age of the greatest purest pro-wrestling form evah, Ricky Morton looked like a kid, as said Arn Anderson. 

The context of what he was actually saying matters unless you're just trolling people? But you were just making fun. So it doesn't really.

[El-P]

Wow, really ?

Arn said Ricky Morton looked like he was twelve. It doesn't matter that he said it pertaining to guys in the audience not getting jealous, because it doesn't change the fact that Ricky Morton looked like he was twelve, as in, that's how he actually looked. He didn't look like he was twelve only in the context of how he was perceived by guys in the audience not getting jealous. What Arn is saying is that guys in the audience were not getting jealous because he looked twelve even outside a context of only being perceived by guys who could get jealous if he did not look twelve. Hence, Ricky Morton looked like he was twelve years old. There's no way anyone can twist it into a matter of "context" in the sentence that was enunciated by Arn, as he did not construct a sentence in which he would have said the guys in the audience *perceived Morton as looking like he was twelve* hence them not getting jealous. He very clearly enunciated that Morton *looked like he was twelve*, which is the reason why guys in the audience did not get jealous. "Looking like he is(was) twelve years old" is exactly what you heard about Marko Stunt. That's basically it and it's a pretty clear thing.

[Matt D]

Arn: Ricky looked like he was 12 which was an advantage for his role, which was X because of reason Y.

You: Ha, ha. Everyone says Marko looks like he's twelve like it's a big problem! Look, Arn just said Ricky did too. It's exactly the same!

[El-P]

9 hours ago, Matt D said:

Arn: Ricky looked like he was 12 which was an advantage for his role, which was X because of reason Y.

You: Ha, ha. Everyone says Marko looks like he's twelve like it's a big problem! Look, Arn just said Ricky did too. It's exactly the same!

You realize Marko looking twelve is his whole appeal, right ? So it's an advantage for his role ? So, yeah, it is a bit comparable actually from the point of view of the quality of looking like twelve being a positive for the act/character that is played. 

And yeah, I am and will make fun of people being irrationnal about things and taking this pro-wrestling stuff and themselves too seriously, I've been reading so many absurd things lately. And really, my first statement was "*cough* Marko Stunt *cough*" which if you are translating into "It's exactly the same !", well, you're just projecting and creating a strawman. I have never said nor even infered it was exactly the same thing at all, I even said everything was extremely different in term of context, audience, overall business dynamics. But the fact Arn said Morton looked like twelve was both funny and interesting because there is absolutely an obvious comparison to be made (much like with Meltz talking about watching Rey Rey in Tijuana looking like he was a ten years old, again in a totally different context). I can't really say more about that one because it doesn't go further than this. 

[Matt D]

Presumably Stunt is being used as a super-sympathetic face-in-peril with a lot of banana peel roll-up hope spots and rolling through legs to make hot tags, etc?

[El-P]

This podcast is the gift that keeps on giving. The Arn goes back to WCW sheds quite a light on the business practices of Vince McMahon. The more you learn, the more of a dishonest power hungry con-man he comes off like.

[SomethingSavage]

Vince doubling up Arn's paydays at the end absolutely sounds like a clear case of unnecessary flexing. Total power move though & pretty much what you'd expect from him.

I felt bad when Arn started talking about how God must hate him. It's a little sad anytime we (as human beings) become THAT invested and emotionally tied to our finances & money. What we earn shouldn't determine our self-worth, but reality has a way of informing us otherwise. And I've been guilty of feeling the same way he talked about here, so I don't think anyone is really immune to it.

This still remains my favorite wrestling podcast, by the way. Arn is excellent. My only complaint is that his shows are too short! Whereas some of the Bruce and Bischoff shows have gone overboard with their run times, I'm never left with that impression here. I always wish we could've gotten another story or three from Arn.

[El-P]

10 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

 

This still remains my favorite wrestling podcast, by the way. Arn is excellent. My only complaint is that his shows are too short! Whereas some of the Bruce and Bischoff shows have gone overboard with their run times, I'm never left with that impression here. I always wish we could've gotten another story or three from Arn.

 

Actually, the short lenght is also part of why this is so great, because not only does it flies by, but when the podcast is over I just can't wait until the following week to earn more from Arn. Yeah, this podcast is the best thing Conrad ever did (and man was I a doubter at first when it was announced). 

[Cornette's racket]

6 hours ago, El-P said:

Actually, the short lenght is also part of why this is so great, because not only does it flies by, but when the podcast is over I just can't wait until the following week to earn more from Arn. Yeah, this podcast is the best thing Conrad ever did (and man was I a doubter at first when it was announced). 

I was the same I wasn't sure how suited Arn would be to podcasts but how wrong I was. He's such a good storyteller and his choice makes you listen. The story about his career ending neck injury was just amazingly told and you forget even Arn Anderson isn't immune from pain.

[SomethingSavage]

The latest Ask Arn episode is worth checking out for the "Day in the Life of a WWE Producer" question alone.

Although I'm not sure Arn quite understands how word documents actually work, I still get his point. I can sympathize with a job feeling like it leaves you very little time or space to breathe. I actually would've liked him to dig deeper into the "reports" they were required to type.

[SomethingSavage]

This show continues to serve up some good stuff. I like to let about 2 or 3 episodes build up, so that I can listen through a workout without changing podcasts or anything. So I've still got some catching up to do.

Arn discussing the art of getting guys over with the TV Title time limit was phenomenal. He really digs into the how's and why's of it all, which I greatly enjoy.

Arn talking up Lex was an unexpected surprise, but I was glad to hear it. I know a lot of us here at PWO have done our part to redeem Luger's reputation a bit through reexamining his earlier matches, but I still believe his broader reputation has taken a beating. It's almost as if most fans slot him into the same category as the Renegades and Warriors (another who has had similar redemptive reviews done on his body of work), but Lex wasn't actually at that level.

Arn keeps it simple, but he breaks it down to the most basic elements. Lex never hurt him. Lex never hit him in the balls or teeth. Lex never dropped him on his head. Lex was okay in his book.

I also got a kick out of hearing Arn's response to Hogan coming into WCW. "How can I get myself in a spot to take that big leg drop?" Good stuff. This is why Arn is the fucking man in these conversations. There's no ego or bullshit. He's straightforward and as down to earth as it gets.

Calling the TV Title the "blue collar championship" was something I dug, too.

Arn's assessment of just how over Daniel Bryan was, in comparison to other acts in 2014, was fantastic. He basically said when you take away all the music cues, the bright lighting, and the production smoke & mirrors and magic of television, Bryan was still every bit as over at the live events without any pomp and circumstance. Even when the cameras weren't rolling, you'd never know it. Because they came alive for Bryan all the same at that time.

Arn and Conrad chopping it up about Nikki Bella's Misawa elbow was straight up something I've heard on so many PWO podcasts here. I ate that shit up.

It was amusing to hear Conrad start to complain about a lack of clean finishes on free TV main events, only for Arn to come in and completely school him on the idea of actually SELLING AND PROMOTING your big matches with clean finishes - without putting your feuding acts against one another on free TV constantly each and every week.

Oh. And Arn's breakdown of heel heat is worth seeking out, for those that haven't heard it. I love the way he uses logic and common sense to explain these things.

To summarize, he basically says - heels today all want to kick in the babyface's front door, assault him while he's home, burglarize his house, and then stand around and brag about what he just did to the babyface for 20 minutes.

To everyday, normal folks? They just see a badass killer with a set of big balls. They see another Stone Cold.

The idea of a heel is actually - heels sneak in the backdoor and try to steal from the babyface's house, without ever getting caught or alerting anyone of his presence. When the babyface catches him, the heel should flee like a bat out of Hell. Flee. Not fight. Not stand his ground, unless cornered and given absolutely no option.

But everybody wants to be the next Steve Austin. Everyone wants to be presented on equal footing. Nobody wants to play the part of a coward or a pest. And the characters suffer for it. The heat suffers for it. And without proper heels, you sabotage the role of the babyface before he ever has a chance to get going in the first place.

Seriously though, Arn is outstanding on this show. I wasn't sure what to expect in the beginning, but I'm having a blast catching up on these episodes now. All are worth hearing, for sure.

[flyonthewall2983]

On 12/15/2019 at 10:09 AM, Dooley said:

Vince had eyes on Jake being a top heel. Having him give too much (especially early on) only makes you think "wow, that guy with the snake sure gets beat up a lot".

It probably turned the conventional thinking on Jake around and as a result he wound up being one of the most over faces in the company for four years straight. So (between that and the failed attempt at a program with Hogan) what might have been perceived as a failure wound up being in their favor. Now applying that to Arn and Tully, it probably wouldn't have worked at all, so I see the overall point with regard to the discussion spurned on by the story he told about the Young Stallions. They had a hierarchy and routine down pat by 1988, after a few crazy years of the road schedule ping-ponging across the country, so anybody thought of as throwing a wrench in the plans maybe deserved getting the third degree from the established talent. 

Getting back to Jake, it's a shame he never stayed in WCW long enough to have a feud with Arn over the DDT. Jake popularized the move and could take it from anywhere but Arn elevated it's use, especially in the 90's as a singles wrestler. 

[flyonthewall2983]

11 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

Arn talking up Lex was an unexpected surprise, but I was glad to hear it. I know a lot of us here at PWO have done our part to redeem Luger's reputation a bit through reexamining his earlier matches, but I still believe his broader reputation has taken a beating. It's almost as if most fans slot him into the same category as the Renegades and Warriors (another who has had similar redemptive reviews done on his body of work), but Lex wasn't actually at that level.

Arn keeps it simple, but he breaks it down to the most basic elements. Lex never hurt him. Lex never hit him in the balls or teeth. Lex never dropped him on his head. Lex was okay in his book.

I also got a kick out of hearing Arn's response to Hogan coming into WCW. "How can I get myself in a spot to take that big leg drop?" Good stuff. This is why Arn is the fucking man in these conversations. There's no ego or bullshit. He's straightforward and as down to earth as it gets.

Luger's legacy to a lot who might not see him in the light some of us do here is showing up on the first Nitro, screwing over Vince and overall indicative of a guy who went into business for himself. The way I see it, that return to WCW revitalized him from a performance and character standpoint. He thrived more running with the established talent like Hogan and Savage as well as the guys he came up with like Sting and those he came up under like Arn and Flair. I've heard Flair in shoot interviews put over their matches in 1988, emphasizing his conditioning and ability to break out his strength towards the end of long matches. It's nice for me to hear Arn put him over like this because I remember the Halloween Havoc 96 match between the two and how awful it was seeing Arn stretchered out. 

It's no wonder he felt that way about Hogan too. He got to see Hulkamania at it's absolute peak nationally in 88-89, and maybe had a bit of envy for the guys who took the big boot and leg drop every night. I remember the two or three matches they had in 1996 on Nitro being very good actually, and in hindsight is shocking seeing Hogan put him over. 

[SomethingSavage]

Right. And I think that's what surprised me even more. There was no mention of Arn beating Hulk. It just didn't come up. And you'd think that would be a talking point, but nah. Arn is strictly bottom line & all business. I dig it.

[flyonthewall2983]

I'm sure that could be a whole episode by itself

[Blehschmidt]

Today's episode on Superbrawl 2 is worth a listen, but holy hell the Van Hammer story is amazing and makes it a must hear.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Arn saying that he didn't take advantage of stock options while he was working for WWE because he didn't understand it breaks my heart. Maybe if he had he wouldn't be doing a Coach John Tolos gimmick that sucks.

[Matt D]

I haven't listened since February or so. How has the podcast been for the last half a year? It started out very well but I could see how the modern WWE stuff week after week could get tedious relative to what you'd actually want the thing to be.