kas Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 Not only are they three of the best in the world, but they also wrestle completely different styles as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 6 hours ago, El-P said: Sure, he can't POSSIBLY think current pro-wrestling is good. Let's take what the old timers say with a grain of salt... until they say something we agree with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 24 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said: Let's take what the old timers say with a grain of salt... until they say something we agree with! Well Ricky's put his money where his mouth is and actually participates in modern wrestling (well at least until covid hit). Terry Funk saw the landscape and adapted to changing times to give himself an entire second career, no reason to not think Morton did the same thing based on available evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, kas said: Not only are they three of the best in the world, but they also wrestle completely different styles as well. Yeah. It's honestly a gobsmacking statement. It's genuinely ewuivalent to me getting confused by late 1980s JCP and going "Flair, Cornette, Windham, Eaton..there are just too many similar-looking tall white guys here for me to keep up!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 58 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said: Let's take what the old timers say with a grain of salt... until they say something we agree with! Actually, I don't need the stamp of approval of anybody to think current pro-wrestling is great. Not Meltz, Not Morton, not anyone. On the other hand, a guy like Ricky Morton saying it threatens all the bitter old guys yelling at clouds because he's someone they put on a pedestal and represent "the good ol' days" and "the right way". So it's much more comfortable to think that he *must* have ulterior motives and he can't be genuine, when everything he has done in the last few years rather points in the other direction. Whatever. I just think it's pretty cool to have non stubborn, stuck in the past veterans appreciating what is being done today and working alongside the current generation. And yeah, it has to drive some people crazy, so again, gotta get into denial mode... or else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 3 hours ago, cm funk said: He refused to watch Io and Sasha on NXT because there had already been too many women on the show, and because Io and girls like her are "all the same". Said he doesn't need to see another schoolgirl/gaesha. Brian thankfully pointed out that Io is great and that isn't her character, but Corny won't even give her a chance because there's too many Asian girls on the shows. Not racist at all... BTW, had he not quit reviewing the current stuff for the last time a few weeks ago ? I mean, this is a complete joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 He's started again "by popular demand" but I think it's more due to the hype around Fyter Fest and GAB going head to head. I'm just starting listening to this week's Experience (we'll see how long I last this time....I usually need to do it incrementally)......I don't think he's going to last too many more weeks I rarely e-mail Last but I think I'll suggest to him what a few people here mentioned about reviewing old WWF shows from the network that happened before he was there and perhaps has never seen. That would be way more interesting than hearing him shit on modern stuff, but ultimately they're going to do what gets them the most downloads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 10, 2020 Report Share Posted July 10, 2020 I wonder if explaining to Corny that Shida's neither a schoolgirl or a geisha, but a cosplay enthusiast who's ring gear is based of Tifa from Final Fantasy VII would make it better or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 2 hours ago, El-P said: Actually, I don't need the stamp of approval of anybody to think current pro-wrestling is great. Not Meltz, Not Morton, not anyone. On the other hand, a guy like Ricky Morton saying it threatens all the bitter old guys yelling at clouds because he's someone they put on a pedestal and represent "the good ol' days" and "the right way". So it's much more comfortable to think that he *must* have ulterior motives and he can't be genuine, when everything he has done in the last few years rather points in the other direction. Whatever. I just think it's pretty cool to have non stubborn, stuck in the past veterans appreciating what is being done today and working alongside the current generation. And yeah, it has to drive some people crazy, so again, gotta get into denial mode... or else... Ricky Morton runs a wrestling school and works on the independent circuit. What do you expect him to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 3 hours ago, sek69 said: I wonder if explaining to Corny that Shida's neither a schoolgirl or a geisha, but a cosplay enthusiast who's ring gear is based of Tifa from Final Fantasy VII would make it better or worse. Worse. His head would explode. He hates that aspect of Kenny Omega's character with the fire of 1000 suns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 5 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said: Ricky Morton runs a wrestling school and works on the independent circuit. What do you expect him to say? Wait, because Ricky Morton runs a wrestling school and works the independent circuit, his praise of the AEW has to be taken with a grain of salt ? You realize that the two aren't mutually exclusive, right ? And saying Morton is only praising modern stuff because he's actually participating in a productive and positive way (training workers and actually working with them) is also kinda ridiculous, because that would infer only the opinion of someone who *isn't* taking an active part in the industry would be worth anything because there would be no "conflict of interest" or something, which is a totally absurd take. Crazy notion that a great wrestler would actually enjoy what is considered by many as great wrestling today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 Ricky Morton is the same as any other wrestler, but because he said something you want to hear suddenly we should believe him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 Ok, so every wrestler is full of shit, *especially* when they say something you *don't* agree with. They absolutely can't, under no circumstance ever, be genuine about their appreciation of current pro-wrestling, because it objectively sucks and people saying otherwise are either corporate shills or lying carnies with an agenda. Point taken. Also, I don't *want to hear* jackshit. I don't need validation from anyone, I'm absolutely confident about my views on pro-wrestling. I just find it cool that not every old wrestler is a bitter old man stuck in the past spreading toxic stuff about those "damn millennials won't don't know how to work". And I'm amused at the fact it pisses some people off and pushes them more deeply into denial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 I don't agree or disagree with Morton. I just find it amusing that an old-time wrestler who tells the same bullshit stories that all old-timer wrestlers tell is somehow more credible than the rest because he put over a match on Twitter. When he tells some bullshit story in a shoot, we greet it with skepticism, but when he calls a modern match a Rembrandt we applaud? Give me a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 The obvious difference is that whether an event took place is something that can be objectively verified while the quality of a match is a matter of subjective taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 1 hour ago, ohtani's jacket said: I don't agree or disagree with Morton. You said "Morton knows where his bread his buttered". Which is inferring that Morton is dishonest in his praise because he has ulterior motives, in this case the idea of getting either booking or student, or more specifically making himself look good in the eyes of people who could eventually book him or young aspiring workers that would be fans of the current product that would want to train at his school. That's assuming a simple tweet about a match that actually happened two-three days ago (and not a story about something from "back in the days", that's also important) would actually have a direct or indirect effect about his actual business, either as a performer or a trainer. All of that in the context of a thread which is basically about an old guy who is hate-watching the current product and refers to the 80's as the epitome of pro-wrestling and how it "should be done", Ricky Morton being basically everything "good" about the "right way". So, by inferring that Morton *has to* be dishonest about his praise of a match that happened two days ago, you are actually saying a whole lot more than just "oh, wrestler tells bullshit". And it's very much apparent what you really mean, especially when you make it about "he said something you want to hear". First off, like I said, I don't need any validation. And second, well, it's more about him saying something that you *don't want* to hear from him apparently. Because why that remark anyway ? Is there a credible way to gauge the sincerity of Morton's appreciation for this match from that tweet ? Apparently there is, and it's "wrestlers tell bullshit". Especially works when they say something some people *don't want to hear*... So yeah. It is a matter of subjective taste like NintendoLogic said, but even then, some people would just rather be grasping at straws to find ulterior motives about anything rather than even consider that Ricky Morton might have, crazy notion, actually loved that match and thought it is great. Because that very notion threatens their opinions and bias because of what Ricky Morton represents in their eyes. Which is why those tweets were posted in this very thread in the first place, because people believe Corny is gonna blows a gasket over that one, just because of who said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 Case in point : let's say Ricky Morton gets a gig with AEW tomorrow. Does that proves anything about his tweet being dishonest (aka he did not think that match was awesome and does not love watching current pro-wrestling) or having ulterior motives ? Of course not, because like I said, it is not mutually exclusive. He can think that match is great, tweet about it, and get a gig with AEW. Now, if he gets a gig with AEW, does anyone thinks it's because he fucking made a tweet ? Of because he's Ricky Morton, has contact in the company already (hey, he worked for them already... wait so maybe he's just a shill, like Meltzer of something... hum...), is considered a great trainer/mentor, is a legend and whatnot ? No... probably will be because he wrote a tweet saying "Awesome match". Yeah, probably that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 Yes, because nobody has ever angled for anything ever... Jim Cornette works people with his podcast the same way he he worked people as a manager all those years ago. That doesn't mean that Jim Cornette isn't everything that everybody says he is, but he still works folks. Ricky Morton refuses to criticize Jim Cornette for comments that Cornette makes on his podcast because Morton and Cornette are friends, and Morton understands that part of it is a work. Morton himself is still part of the business, still running a school, still working the independent circuit, and recently worked for the company he's praising. Morton likes to tell tall tales about the territory days and his involvement in the business. Morton also claims he invented the shoot angle and the worked shoot feud. Morton is like most old-school wrestlers in every way, shape and form, but one day he has a moment of clarity and declares wrestling better than ever. Which wouldn't mean anything except that a chunk of online fans get their kicks from being offended by Cornette. The same way we used to love reading Herb Kunze. And in ten years, said fans will be on the Cornette side of the fence and bitching and moaning about the next generation of wrestlers. The point is that there is BS on both sides. Cornette may be an easy dig, but rolling out Morton as some kind of ironic rebuttal to Cornette's rants is ridiculous considering they'd turn the whole thing into an angle if they thought there was money in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said: Morton himself is still part of the business, still running a school, still working the independent circuit, and recently worked for the company he's praising. Like I said. Does that mean he *can't possibly* have thought this was a great match ? Yes or no ? Because that's the only issue here. What's funny is that your reply is inferring that it is impossible because of the nature of who Ricky Morton is. 31 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said: The point is that there is BS on both sides. Cornette may be an easy dig, but rolling out Morton as some kind of ironic rebuttal to Cornette's rants is ridiculous considering they'd turn the whole thing into an angle if they thought there was money in it. It is not a "ironic rebuttal". It is presented as an opinion, an aesthetic judgement on the match, and because of whom presents said opinion, it will drive some people nuts. If there's some irony somewhere, it's in how those people react to this statement. Like say, pretend that it *can't possibly* be genuine. It reminds me some argument with some professional movie critic that got told by an angry audience member that he *could not have really enjoyed that movie* and had some ulterior motives and professional bias to say that. That just *could not* be true. No idea how you say it in English, but in French we call that a "procès d'intention" (trial of intent). This is exactly what you're doing here. As far as turning the thing into an angle, be serious now. Corny worked everyone with his Sami Callihan bashing. This is where I lost the last bit of respect I had for him, because I knew he was full of shit and outdated, but I did not realize him being full of shit was actually full of shit in itself. So maybe, when Corny says he hates the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega, maybe he's also lying and dishonest about it because that's what his audience wants from him. Maybe, just like Ricky Morton *can't possibly* have loved this match, maybe, just maybe, Jim Cornette secretly loves Kenny Omega and the Bucks (as he should, because he makes his money from dragging their name into the mud). Yeah, you've convinced me. Ricky Morton is working and did not love that match. And Corny is actually an Omega & Bucks fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted July 11, 2020 Report Share Posted July 11, 2020 You seem to have this notion that all works are a lie. I stumbled upon Morton's podcast, and at the beginning of the show the host wanted Morton to give his opinion about Cornette saying Becky Lynch shouldn't have left a million dollar payday to have a baby (or something to that effect.) Morton refused to condemn Cornette, and they quickly moved to some of the most hilarious shilling you'll ever hear (good ol' Ricky), but back to the point about Cornette. Cornette may or may not believe what he says bout Lynch, but the way he says it is deliberately provocative. He's stirring shit up the same way he did when he was a manager. 90% of the people who download his podcast, download it to hear him give some rant about the business. And every time he does, he's working those folks. That doesn't mean he's lying. It means he's coaxing folks to download the next podcast. Morton's comments were about more than him liking a match. It doesn't matter whether he liked the match or not. The gist of Morton's statement was that wrestling is better than it's ever been. Apparently, this is all very exciting because Ricky Morton said it and Cornette is going to blow a gasket when he finds out. Experience has told us not to trust wrestlers. That is what we have been taught time and time again. But we're supposed to give Ricky Morton the benefit of the doubt here because he said the right things. And next week we'll go back to not giving wrestlers credit for the things they say. Whatever's convenient. But to answer your question, yes he could have thought it was a great match. He could also be angling for a gig with AEW, but the important thing is that Ricky Morton said modern wrestling is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 2 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said: But to answer your question, yes he could have thought it was a great match. This is my entire point (first reply I made : "Sure, he can't POSSIBLY think current pro-wrestling is good. "). It took a whole lot to get you to that point. Like pulling teeth, really. You could have saved us both some time and energy. 2 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said: He could also be angling for a gig with AEW Maybe he was. So what if he was ? Like I said before, both are not mutually exclusive. 2 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said: but the important thing is that Ricky Morton said modern wrestling is great. Honestly, it's not even important at all, really. Like I said, I don't need validation from anyone, unlike the crowd of goofs who hangs on to every word Corny says (and I totally agree about him working them like the marks they are : hate-watching is dumb enough, but listening to someone hate-watch is even dumber, life is short people). It was just a cool little tidbit to me. But the idea that *he could not possibly* thought this match was great struck me as a case of denial. I'm aware these are workers (doh ! really now ?). But as pro-wrestlers, I also believe they might actually have a genuine opinion on pro-wrestling and do enjoy, still, some of it (like Steve Austin was clearly still a mark for wrestling long after he was gone). And that was about it. And again, with that last statement, you are again inferring stuff that isn't there, because for some reason, it seems like Ricky Morton saying shit like "This AEW match was great" kinda bothers you in a way (maybe because he's not saying the "right thing" to you ? I dunno). I personally find it cool. I don't find it important, at all. I don't download Morton's podcast (I even ignored he had one), I certainly don't download Corny's podcast. If Morton was not genuine, well, ok. It will have exactly zilch effect on my own appreciation on things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 I have nothing against modern wrestling. I may end up watching it in 20 years time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 12, 2020 Report Share Posted July 12, 2020 Can't wait to hear the Old Bucks talk about those pesky kids not knowing how to work and doing way too much 450 splashes as set-ups moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 13 hours ago, El-P said: Can't wait to hear the Old Bucks talk about those pesky kids not knowing how to work and doing way too much 450 splashes as set-ups moves. Ironically I could see them doing what the Rock N Rolls do now, and work a version of whatever the style will be 20 years from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NitroFan Posted July 13, 2020 Report Share Posted July 13, 2020 They mentioned last week that the watch alongs would be a regular part of the Drive Thru. Todays is Michaels vs Vader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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