AEW Dynamite Week 8 - 20 Nov 2019

[El-P]

Honestly, I have a hard time thinking of Kenny Omega as a geek, since I saw him sell out (almost) the Tokyo Dome and the Ryogoku Kokugikan and have the two best matches I have ever seen in my 30 years of fandom. And since it's all a matter of perception, I see Omega as that guy. The quirkiness/meta aspect of his personality has always been there, including in Japan. Maybe when all is said and done, he'll be one of those "He was bigger in Japan" guys (like Brody, Hansen, Dr. Death), and it's perfectly fine.

[Slasher]

1 hour ago, fakeplastictrees said:

Kenny has been meta for a long time. His current AEW character is fun if you think of it as a postmodern take on current day WWE babyfaces. All WWE babyfaces are geeks.

I like this idea. They should lean into it hard. 

[chapstarfall]

I am somewhere in the middle with Omega.

Between the hype about his Japanese matches which have never seen, and people like Cornette thinking he is awful, I find him OK.

I don't really like the character so far, but I could see him being a TV Title champion, getting over defending it in good matches every week.

[Laz]

I think Omega is one of the worst major names the wrestling business has had in the last 20 years. I would watch a compilation of Randy Orton's Greatest Chinlocks over any of Omega's masturbatory "40 minutes of mediocrity followed by 5 minutes of above average" matches. He is the only person on the roster I change the channel on.

[FMKK]

21 minutes ago, Laz said:

I think Omega is one of the worst major names the wrestling business has had in the last 20 years. I would watch a compilation of Randy Orton's Greatest Chinlocks over any of Omega's masturbatory "40 minutes of mediocrity followed by 5 minutes of above average" matches. He is the only person on the roster I change the channel on.

I find this really odd because if you watch his matches with, for example, Naito, I don't see how you can come away with "40 minutes of mediocrity followed by 5 minutes of above average" as a description of them.

[Boss Rock]

20 hours ago, FMKK said:

Tbf, has he had a bad match in AEW? The character/booking hasn't necessarily been ideal but all of his matches have been really good in my opinion. People are talking a bit like he's been shitting the bed.

I pretty much agree with this. And if he cant adapt his character and promo skills, let him be the guy to have TV bangers. It doesnt seem like AEW is interested in midcard titles, but he'd be the perfect person for it.

[El-P]

Don't kid yourselves, Omega is gonna be the AEW champ eventually. They really should bury the hatchet with NJPW. Omega vs Ibushi in AEW would break the Internet.

[Laz]

3 hours ago, FMKK said:

I find this really odd because if you watch his matches with, for example, Naito, I don't see how you can come away with "40 minutes of mediocrity followed by 5 minutes of above average" as a description of them.

I'm not a fan of Naito either, or really any NJPW at that. To each their own because I at least see the appeal of it all, but Omega, in particular, annoys the hell out of me in ways that even John Cena didn't.

[Slasher]

1 hour ago, El-P said:

Don't kid yourselves, Omega is gonna be the AEW champ eventually. They really should bury the hatchet with NJPW. Omega vs Ibushi in AEW would break the Internet.

He'll definitely get a turn with the main event title, but I don't think it will happen for quite a while. He's either gonna win it after a long redemption arc or as a newly turned heel. I'd rather him win the title over Page though, for sure.

[Coffey]

Kenny Omega is a good worker. My issue with him is the same issue I have with a lot of wrestling nowadays, especially in AEW: no one knows what less is more means anymore.

Here's a perfect example: last night on AEW Dark, in the opening match, Pentagon Jr. hit Trent Barretta with a Canadian Destroyer, which Trent kicked out of. Then he hit him with a Package Piledriver on the ring apron. Then he did his arm-breaker move. Then went for ANOTHER Package Piledriver (when at this point, Trent should be getting stretchered out) and Trent reverses it and wins the match.

It's like, believability is so fucking far away from wrestling at this point I feel like guys would kick out from a literal gunshot. "Well, he didn't hit a major organ!"

Watching Kenny Omega in Japan, it was just a whole bunch of everything & none of it meant anything. Like, you're doing a top rope Dragon Suplex for a near fall!? It's just insane. Adam Cole takes a top of the cage through a table Air Raid Crash & he's working the next day in a 15 minutes match... that he wins. It's insane.

[El-P]

Except Pro-wrestling has never been believable. Ever. Or maybe, just maybe, in some forms of the UWF in Japan, way before MMA became an actual sport. A Canadian Destroyer is a basic nearfall in 2019 while it was a deathspot in 2005. Much like a vertical suplex was just a basic spot in 1990 while it was a finisher in the 70's, and a DDT was a transition move in the 00's (unless you are Raven, but that's another matter) while it was a killshot 10 years before. The only difference is that we lived through the last 30 years and we were conditionned to think what we saw when we learned how it works was the norm of forever. Except it wasn't. It was just a singular point in time in a given cultural context. Meltz talked about how the mexican guys he met when he was young thought US pro-wrestling looked faked as hell while lucha looked real. If I'm 15 today and discovering pro-wrestling, I have no issue whatsoever with how the matches are worked because that's the norm of today. And it doesn't make more or less sense than the norm of 10, 20 or 50 years ago.

[Coffey]

Well, that's your opinion. Just telling you how I felt. Sorry if that upsets you. 

[Slasher]

Perhaps that problem started when wrestling promotions and the wrestlers themselves started treating it as a performance art instead of the simulated combat it used to be. Even with AEW talking about making it more sports like, they really have gone in a different direction. 

[MoS]

Taker made a good point about less is more and how he literally forced himself to slow down even though it bothered him that he was not having matches as good as Bret Hart, but as he said "I couldn't get in my own way." My issue with Omega is that too often, his character seems to be someone who has excellent matches, and I don't think that's a good wrestling character. It was bad when it became Shawn Michaels's character, and it's bad now. Who introduces themselves as "the best bout machine"? 

[El-P]

10 hours ago, Coffey said:

Well, that's your opinion. Just telling you how I felt. Sorry if that upsets you. 

I'm not the one being upset, since I'm absolutely fine with it. A package piledriver on the apron as "just a spot" doesn't bother me anymore. Less can be more, but less can also be less. And more can be more too. There's not just one way. 

[El-P]

10 hours ago, MoS said:

Taker made a good point about less is more and how he literally forced himself to slow down even though it bothered him that he was not having matches as good as Bret Hart, but as he said "I couldn't get in my own way." 

That's all well and good, but when did Taker really became a legendary character as opposed to a geat gimmick ? When he began to have really good matches, around the time Cactus showed up and pushed him further from his first way of working. He alreay had some good matches before has he was slowly transitionning to a more workraty style (for the time and WWF, absolutely), as showed by his match with Nash at Mania. Before that point, less was less with Taker, honestly. The gimmick was great (and not believable one bit, and totally "goofy performance art" too), but the matches were often dreadful (not his fault he was often paired up with shitty workers too though).