sek69 Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 He seems very much a guy with a 70s-80s wrestler mindset, which is not surprising considering who raised him. From his point of view, why *would* he want to try something new and different when what he does has worked for him so far. I also get the impression that ever since his shoulder popped out doing his pre RKO mat pound deal , he's been very reluctant to go outside his comfort zone to try anything else. That of course is smart from a self-preservation standpoint but probably something no one else on the roster could get away with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, sek69 said: As much as I personally think Randy Orton is boring AF to watch and probably a garbage person IRL, he's pretty much the standard WWE wants all their guys to be. When JBL would say "if you build a sports-entertainer from the ground up, you'd get Randy Orton", he wasn't lying since that's what WWE did. Oh, that's pretty spot on. Which is why when I stumbled back onto some WWE stuff in the mid-00's after really years of not watching at all and I saw this guy, I was like, ok, that's the new WWE style and it sucks. 12 minutes ago, Matt D said: But he's also a guy who gets praised heavily by everyone that wrestles him too. I think it's more that he's safe/easy to work with ("like a night off") than anything else, mind you. They say the same thing about Kane BTW. That says it all. Of course I don't work with them, I have to watch their boring-ass matches, and that makes all the difference in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Someone else in the thread already pointed this out, but here's video evidence... Man, WWE really doesn't have a creative bone in its body anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 I think a lot of wrestlers are given the benefit of the doubt over the years because of where they have worked previously. Especially if you're a fan of in-ring work. Some companies just have a more positive outlook on them than others. I can't comment on his TNA run, that's all El-P. I know he did a deep watch of TNA. So as far as A.J. Styles is concerned, or Samoa Joe, Kurt Angle, even Magnus/Nick Aldis, I can't speak on their time in TNA. As far as overall résumé is concerned though, if you've worked in both Ring of Honor (especially several years ago) and New Japan Pro Wrestling, you're going to be looked at a lot more favorably than if you just worked solely in WWE as far as in-ring work is concerned. That doesn't always translate well to WWE but AJ Styles & Daniel Bryan have both certainly excelled there. Would Daniel Bryan be as good as he is with just his WWE on his résumé? He came into the company already having word of mouth, just like A.J. Styles. Samoa Joe, after his ROH stint, was talked about more favorably than damn near any wrestler in the world. TNA brought his worth down, if anything. No one really talks about his time in Zero-One. 2003-2010 or so ROH was on fire. More recently, that last decade or so of NJPW has been on fire. A.J. Styles, Kenny Omega even Finn Balor/Prince Devitt. Omega hasn't done much of note in AEW thus far & I would argue that Balor has bombed in WWE. Styles, all things considered, has transitioned pretty well. I wonder how much his run in TNA helped him acclimate to WWE better? But sometimes a dude is seen as a big star because he's given a big, non-WWE stage. Meanwhile, Randy Orton never got a run in ROH or New Japan & I think that matters because no one has gotten to see him work a non-WWE style before. And people use that against him. But if you're working for Coca-Cola, you don't follow the Pepsi guidelines, you know? It really comes down to not only what Vince McMahon expects & wants from his performers but also the different style & what the fans want from different promotions. WWE style is boring. Especially if you're a life long fan that has been watching for decades from promotions all across the world. But sometimes there's wrestlers with a lot of non-WWE experience that can take that experience & incorporate it into WWE style & still have something that is special. Daniel Bryan & AJ Styles come to mind. On the other side of the spectrum is Finn Balor & Shinsuke Nakamura, whom I would argue haven't been able to adapt in WWE very well at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted June 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Look let's not forget that Cody Rhodes, as hyped as he is now - and deservedly so - spent years having boring ass matches against high quality talent in the indies, in TNA and even in NJPW. Considering that early Cody was probably even more bland than Orton, it would be fair to assume things would be similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Cody's biggest roadblock was it took him a while to find his character, no one cared about Cody: Ex-WWE Guy Now On His Own, but once he got the American Nightmare gimmick to click all bets were off. I would imagine for someone brought up in the WWE system like he was, it was probably difficult to get a handle on coming up with an effective character since he was only taught to work with what the company gives him. Another reason I feel like current WWE is like 80s AWA is not only the similarities of the out of touch old men running both, but how the style is not one that allows for good matches unless you're a superworker, which is why pretty much all that is watchable from that era of the AWA normally involves some combination of Curt Hennig, Nick Bockwinkel, or the Rockers vs Rose/Summers feud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothS Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 WWE is just straight up laughable. That Backlash card had me rollin'. No Bryan, no AJ, no Cesaro, no Rollins, no New Day, no Charlotte (yes, I am a huge fan of her's). Asuka is stuck with Nia Jax, can she survive without a trip to the hospital because of Nia's carelessness & lack of talent? Can Drew McIntyre carry Bobby Lashley (the chocolate Jake Hager) to an actual good match? Why in the world is Sasha Banks (Pro wrestling's version of freakin' Beyonce) playing lapdog to someone that brings nothing to the table at the moment? Will WWE creative ever gets it's act together? We will hope to find out next time on WWE Facepalm-Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothS Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Another thing, "The Greatest Wrestling Match Ever". Take your best shot buddy, LOOOOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 I'm not a big fan of Bobby Lashley but to call him "chocolate Jake Hager" is ridiculous. Lashley has done plenty of solid to good stuff in his career, whereas literally the only way Jake Hager is tolerable is if he is mean-mugging for Jericho in the background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 minute ago, MoS said: I'm not a big fan of Bobby Lashley but to call him "chocolate Jake Hager" is ridiculous. Lashley has done plenty of solid to good stuff in his career, whereas literally the only way Jake Hager is tolerable is if he is mean-mugging for Jericho in the background. I'm more of a fan of the "Black Lesnar" meme since they are pretty comparable in terms of background/ability and the coolest part of their matches is when they toss people around like ragdolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothS Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Both come from Amateur Wrestling. Both are legit MMA fighters. Both are huge strong guys. Both have the charisma of a brick wall. Both have zero stage presence. Both need "mouthpieces". Both have to be carried by great workers to have good to great matches. Bobby Lashley had this with the likes of John Cena in 2007, and Kurt Angle in 2015. Jake Hager, well there's still hope. LOL. Maybe Cody or Kenny Omega can do it for him. At least he got to be in Stadium Stampede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothS Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Brock Lesnar is awesome. He has "Final Boss" stage presence. He is a tremendous in-ring storyteller (when motivated), and he feels like a must see wrestler. Every time he shows up, my eyes are glued to him. So many great matches & feuds that he was a part of with a variety of elite wrestlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 I also love the pairing with MVP, I hope they go all in with it but I fear they won't because.....WWE gonna WWE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted June 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 41 minutes ago, SmoothS said: Both come from Amateur Wrestling. Both are legit MMA fighters. Both are huge strong guys. Both have the charisma of a brick wall. Both have zero stage presence. Both need "mouthpieces". Both have to be carried by great workers to have good to great matches. Bobby Lashley had this with the likes of John Cena in 2007, and Kurt Angle in 2015. Jake Hager, well there's still hope. LOL. Maybe Cody or Kenny Omega can do it for him. At least he got to be in Stadium Stampede. I felt like Lashley The Destroyer was pretty good. As a face, when he did that obstacle circuit and plowed through it, he got to show some charisma. BTW, nice avi. HnK is my all time fave show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothS Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Really cool. Hokuto No Ken is what got me into Anime. I will always hold it near and dear. Also, Toshiaki Kawada is the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Coffey said: Would Daniel Bryan be as good as he is with just his WWE on his résumé? I can answer this. Yes, he would be. I was hearing buzz about American Dragon (Bryan) when he was in no-name indies - before even ROH, etc. Some wrestlers are just born special and are naturally talented, and he's one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothS Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Yep, Bryan was already great before he hit his prime in the mid 2000's, and all these years later nothing has changed. A master at adapting to anything & everything. A living legend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 Now that Heyman is out, Raw will actually be somewhat interesting for a few weeks if only to see if all of his pet projects start getting their pushes cut off. I wonder how long Drew survives with the belt after this Backlash show, which is already in the can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 On 6/13/2020 at 10:46 AM, sek69 said: Yeah it was Cornette's rule that something was fair game to copy after 7 years, but to be far that was in an era where there was just one company for 20+ years. He wrote about it in Fighting Spirit Magazine, if memory serves me right. It was that in seven years, the people who had been watching would have moved on, and a new group of fans would come in who had never seen the angle before. And those that did stick around would likely have forgotten a lot of what they saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted June 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 6 hours ago, FMKK said: Now that Heyman is out, Raw will actually be somewhat interesting for a few weeks if only to see if all of his pet projects start getting their pushes cut off. I wonder how long Drew survives with the belt after this Backlash show, which is already in the can. I believe Drew might be the only one who's safe. People like Crews, Andrade and Black should be really worried, though. Plus there are others who just vanished, like Tozawa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 I think Drew will be OK for the short term. However, fair or not, bad ratings usually fall on the shoulders of the World champion. Drew's reign couldn't have come at a worse time. None of this is his fault, and he's trying his best. But I expect him to get hit with some blowback. Apollo is absolutely going back to catering. Aleister may be there with him. Andrade has the Charlotte card in his favor, so who knows.Theory and Garza could survive. Murphy's chances feel 50/50. Being connected to Rollins will likely be his saving grace. The Raw women's division is already a mess, so I can't see that getting much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 47 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said: Apollo is absolutely going back to catering. Aleister may be there with him. Wasn't Aleister Vince's second choice to win the Rumble, supposedly? If that's true, he'll probably be fine - or at least in a better position than most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Dav'oh said: He wrote about it in Fighting Spirit Magazine, if memory serves me right. It was that in seven years, the people who had been watching would have moved on, and a new group of fans would come in who had never seen the angle before. And those that did stick around would likely have forgotten a lot of what they saw. I'm sure he was thinking in terms of actual wrestling angles and not toilet humor segments. And like you said, it was predicated in the idea of fan turnover. Given the median age of WWE's viewers and their inability to create new stars, there can't be too many people watching now who weren't watching in 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 It probably still would work as a general rule if WWE did not spend all their time hyping all such events from the past, because they book as if the current era sucks and the real cool stuff is available on the award-winning WWE Network. I think it was Loss who once said WWE has now become a legacy promotion, and if you keep focusing on your legacy, you cannot at the same time expect fans to not remember such incidents. Particularly in the internet era where everything is available at the stroke of a button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted June 14, 2020 Report Share Posted June 14, 2020 The amount of talent NOT on this Backlash PPV is stunning in its stupidity. I mean imagine thinking in 2020 that a show without AJ Styles, Kevin Owens. Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins, is a good idea. I originally thought Andrade wasn't on the show but at least they put him with Apollo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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