Shit just got real! Politician Andrew Yang goes after WWE. Actress Lea Thompson responds.

[The Thread Killer]

I am sure this isn't going to be a popular opinion here, but I can somewhat see WWE's side of this issue.  And some people (on Twitter, not so much here at PWO) are acting like policies like this are totally unfair and absolutely unheard of. 

My most recent job was working as a "Production Technician" for a major pharmaceutical company. (Basically, I operated a computerized machine that produced medication.)  I didn't work in the office, I didn't work in the lab and obviously I didn't have any contact with the media. I didn't know the scientific formula of the medication we were producing, that was already compounded before it got into my hands.  But when I got hired, the company made me sign a rather comprehensive document saying that I was not allowed to speak to anybody under any circumstances about the details of my job.  Which was fine, because who would want to hear about it, honestly.

A few months later, the company came out with an addendum to the policy regarding Social Media.  The policy stipulated that employees were forbidden from representing themselves as employees of the company on Social Media like Facebook and especially Twitter.  Employees were strongly discouraged from even identifying the company in their profiles and were informed in no uncertain terms that any violation of the policy was grounds for immediate termination.  Once again, that didn't seem like a big deal to me because I hate Facebook and deactivated my account years ago, and I rarely use Twitter.  And when I do, I don't talk about my job because once again...who cares?

My point is, my feeling was always that the company was paying me, providing my medical insurance and coverage and my (incredibly meager) pension plan...so if they wanted to legally forbid me from identifying myself as an employee of theirs on Social Media, that was their right.  My feeling has always been that if you are being paid by a particular company, they have a right to exert a level of control over how you conduct yourself in public forums...since how you act will reflect back on the company.  With WWE, the issue is intensified because (rightly or wrongly) WWE actually owns the intellectual property of the names and characters and has every legal right to exert control over how those names and likenesses are being portrayed...especially if the individuals are using those tools to generate revenue for themselves.  Put it this way...if the company I worked for was paying for my car, like they owned it and paid the gas and insurance and maintenance but allowed me to drive it - it wouldn't be unrealistic for them to not allow me to use that car on my own time to be an Uber driver or deliver pizzas.  They own it (right or wrong) they get to dictate how it is being used.

Having said all of that...here is where I think WWE is totally full of shit, and are totally out of line:

Everything I just said applied to me because I was a paid, full time employee with full benefits.  I was not an "Independent Contractor."  I have a buddy who is an Independent Contractor, he works in I.T. and he gets hired by companies to work on their websites and especially online ordering systems.  They pay him an hourly rate for his work.  They don't pay him for transportation, they don't pay his insurance or medical benefits (which sucks because he has three kids, all of whom have serious medical issues) he has no pension plan.  But then again, they don't care what he does on Social Media, and they don't care who he works for, as long as it doesn't interfere with the work he does for them.  My friend can also terminate that agreement whenever he feels like it, and go work wherever he wants.  There is no ridiculous "90 Day No Compete" clause.  What he does for each company becomes their Intellectual Property...but that's the only control they have over him as an Independent Contractor.

WWE can't have their cake and eat it too.  The feeling I get when I see how some people (especially younger fans who have clearly never actually had a paying job) react is that employers have "no right" to tell you what to do when it comes to independent platforms and Social Media.  That's totally wrong, employers absolutely DO have the right to dictate that kind of stuff, if you're actually an EMPLOYEE.  My feeling is that if WWE wants to exert this level of control over people, then they need to stop being such cheap assholes and actually hire these damn people as employees.  Then, WWE can pretty much dictate the terms of employment.  If WWE is not willing to do that then I really think these guys should take CM Punk's advice and tell Vince McMahon to stick his policy in his ear.  If they don't actually legally work for him in the strictest definition of the term, then WWE can't tell them what to do.  But if they did, then I think Vince would absolutely have that right.

If Andrew Yang is mainly concerned with the Independent Contractor aspect of this policy, then he's absolutely right.  If he (or anybody else) thinks policies like this are unheard of or shouldn't be applied in general to actual employees, then I don't agree.

[Laz]

On 10/2/2020 at 11:09 AM, The Thread Killer said:

My point is, my feeling was always that the company was paying me, providing my medical insurance and coverage and my (incredibly meager) pension plan...so if they wanted to legally forbid me from identifying myself as an employee of theirs on Social Media, that was their right.  My feeling has always been that if you are being paid by a particular company, they have a right to exert a level of control over how you conduct yourself in public forums...since how you act will reflect back on the company. 

Couple of issues here.

1. WWE talent are not employees, but independent contractors. Their payment by the company is akin to an actor on a television show. If Bryan Cranston signed a deal with Disney to play a role? Disney has no say in what he does professionally when not working the agreed upon dates and has no right to money earned beyond their program. 

2. WWE talent, as independent contractors, are not receiving healthcare benefits, nor pension plans, through WWE. 

3. This mandate is another in a long line of attempts by Vince to restrict the income of contracted talents, which is why many of his top stars in the past have left before. Piper left because he wanted to work with John Carpenter, Rock left because he wasn't going to give Vince a cut of his Hollywood money, Jericho left because he felt Vince didn't have a say in what he did whenever he wasn't scheduled to appear, etc. 

This is a blatant overstep by Vince and WWE that, just like their attempts to prevent Rey Mysterio from leaving years back, will fold against a halfway decent court case.

[rovert]

Laz's post is all valid and I agree with it.

But Vince wants a modern music industry 360 style contract but at the end of the day, the talent won't do shit.

Last year and years before on Twitter, I said they won't do shit then got called out by (young wet behind the ears) people hepped up on Bernie, Corbyn, David Starr as right-wing/alt-right for doing so. WWE talent didn't do shit. The same fans said ACH when he left NXT and when Sami Zayn was secretly being a father for first time that they were starting a union in rumours conjured out of thin air.

IF WWE talents start a union I'll be 110% behind them trust me. Until then it is Wrestling fans a lot of which are in shit and precarious jobs fretting others earning x10 times than them.

I get caring, caring about exploitation and caring about their future. But boo hoo they have to maybe wrestle for 3-20 minutes a week and play video games for 5 figures a week.

[Laz]

I agree that most talents won't do shit, but I also think the talents most affected would do fine if they told Vince to fuck off and specified that they would not be renewing their deals, specifying this overstep as why they would be seeking income elsewhere.

Xavier Woods, for example, would do great anywhere else. He has a PhD in educational psychology, has a recurring seat at one of the more popular live events for each PAX convention, and his streaming show is the reason others have followed suit. If he, especially in today's climate after the Lio Rush and ACH accusations against the company, were to tell Vince to pound sand? There isn't much that could be done.

Most of the talent, as in other fields, don't understand the level of power they truly yield.

[sek69]

I think it's a combination of several factors:

 

1: There hasn't been a company on the level of WWE in a generation, so someone telling Vince to GFY was potentially limiting their careers to the indy level unless they could latch on in Japan somehow. At the end of the day it still comes down to the talent to come together of course, but it should be noted there is a lot going against them from being in an industry accustomed to being a monopoly to almost certainly getting fed non stop anti unionization FUD on a regular basis. 

2.  By all accounts Vince is very good at convincing people to pledge their unyielding loyalty to him. We've seen several folks in the company flat out embarrass themselves on various platforms licking the company boots, and not all of them were low card folks doing it for understandable job security reasons. What stood out to me when it happens is how they all use the same verbiage in a matter that clearly shows there is an effort in the company to train people to be like this. Folks who've come up through the PC seem to have terminal Company Brain so clearly not all the time there is being spent on football drills and weightlifting. 

3. People still having the "well that guy got fucked, but they wouldn't do that to *me*" mentality despite all the evidence to the contrary.

 

I will say though some things do appear to be changing. For better or worse this era of talent is far more aware of the power you get from being successful on Twitch or YouTube. Meltzer has said many times his son and his friends know Xavier Woods and Kenny Omega as video game people more than wrestlers. Vince trying to horn in on anything built not using a WWE owned brand name might just be a line too far for some.

Not to mention there appear to be a lot of folks venting to Andrew Yang, so clearly people are saying something. Dave got a lot of people talking to him when this first started too. I don't discount the possibility that if Yang ends up in a cabinet position (or as he said he's likely to be in contact with those who do if he's doesn't), folks might just start giving him the info he needs to make changes. 

After all, people will put up with a lot of bullshit but if you start messing with their money it's a different story. 

[C.S.]

Jake Hager and Andrew Yang absolutely destroyed Stephanie here.

 

[cm funk]

Yang is really good on the latest Talk is Jericho

[SirEdger]

So, basically if I understood correctly, Yang's plan is hoping that some talent in WWE is on "fuck it" mode and rats out Vince to the governement?

[C.S.]

1 minute ago, SirEdger said:

So, basically if I understood correctly, Yang's plan is hoping that some talent in WWE is on "fuck it" mode and rats out Vince to the governement?

Doubt he needs that when the evidence is overwhelming and there are enough former talents (Hager, etc.) ready to bust this wide open. 

But WWE pissing off people within the company - like a Paige type - probably won't help.

[dawho5]

I think one of the reasons there was never a union before is due to no solid alliances between more than a few wrestlers.  Ever.  Wrestling has always attracted some of the less trustworthy types of people.  I'm sure there are that 25-30% of past rosters who may have been solid, reliable human beings that you could trust not to sell out, but what about the rest?

You always have that talk about "the boys" and the great fraternization backstage.  But do you think at least 60% of those guys wouldn't have sold their buddies out for the promise of a top spot or more money, etc.? 

I can't speak to how much that may have changed now, but back in the 80s/90s there was absolutely no way.  Vince (or Bischoff, whoever really) would have heard rumblings and went to certain key people who would end up undoing the whole thing for promises of future rewards.  You can't tell me promoters don't know who would sell their own grandmother for a better push/paycheck.

[C.S.]

The bubble and vacuum WWE lives under as they continue to bury their heads in the sand will ultimately end up burying them.

A "don't worry, brother" from a drunken Michael Hayes in a purple pimp leisure suit won't get them out of this one.

 

[Migs]

https://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/sag-aftra-president-says-group-will-directly-engage-wrestlers-325266

It's an interesting distinction here of what paths get taken: WWE is probably the only company where the wrestlers are definitively employees and not independent contractors (you can make an IC argument for some of the other companies, but it's at least debatable, unlike with WWE), but wrestlers for every TV company could be "screen actors" and thus union members. 

[C.S.]

I've long given up on buying anything this empty BS artist is selling, but here's the latest...

 

[sek69]

He's full of shit, but the dude he @'ed is legit and if is involved for real it might actually lead to something.