2020 JUMBO BIO, PART ONE

[SPS]

I'm really enjoying this thread and all these interesting tidbits about Jumbo. I've only seen the "big" matches of Jumbo's career from the 80's & 90's and I think only a handful of his 70's stuff. I really haven't watched him as in depth as someone who knew how highly regarded he was; especially compared to the 4 Pillars or even his contemporaries like Tenryu, Choshu or Fujinami.

So now with all this extra insight and information I've been going back and watching/compiling a list of whatever I've been able to find online of Jumbo's career from start to finish and it's been so enjoyable and such a breath of fresh air to take me out of the modern product for a bit and reset by watching someone as great as Jumbo. 

Thank you again for all the information you've shared, it's been one of the best threads I've read on this board since I've joined. 

[El-P]

8 hours ago, Dav'oh said:

Jumbo is my biggest wrestling black-hole (Bockwinkel's probably second) 

Lucky you. (unless you end up not enjoying them of course, but...)

[El-P]

12 hours ago, KinchStalker said:

a.) The German suplex, of course attributed to Karl Gotch. Among the puro crop, only Hiro Matsuda and Antonio Inoki, both disciples of Gotch, used it as well.

b.) The butterfly suplex, the signature move of Billy Robinson. Known as the “Human Windmill”, this maneuver blew Japanese reporters’ minds, and helped make it possible for Robinson to become the first gaijin ace during his tenure for the IWE.  The Funks, of course, would swipe the move and then teach it to Jumbo.

c.) The “side suplex”, which we would now call a gutwrench, was the signature move of Horst Hoffman, who competed in the IWE’s 4th IWA World Series tournament in spring 1972.

d.) Finally, there was the “front suplex”, which at the very least had not been seen to this point in Japan. This is why some called it the Jumbo Suplex at the time.

7.) As the book puts it, “Tsuruta was a new type of Japanese wrestler who competed purely on technique, not on guts or spirit, which are characteristic of the Japanese.”

As said before, fascinating stuff. Really interesting to see the american/european influence on Jumbo and how it had permeated the whole classic AJ style, as opposed to what Choshu would do in the 80's, which really is entirely Japanese in spirit.

Ok, I'll go straight into goofy-ass analogies, Jumbo was more Kurosawa, Choshu was more Mizoguchi (well, Choshu was more Fukasaku probably, really...)

[KinchStalker]

3 hours ago, El-P said:

Ok, I'll go straight into goofy-ass analogies, Jumbo was more Kurosawa, Choshu was more Mizoguchi (well, Choshu was more Fukasaku probably, really...)

This analogy delighted me greatly, but man, I wish Jumbo's career had ended on a note like Madadayo (which I maintain is somewhat underrated).

[fxnj]

Great thread going here. Much appreciated.

[NintendoLogic]

Regarding Kitao, his obit in the Observer notes that the scandal that led to him being expelled from sumo is believed to be at least partially a frame-up. The details are murky, but apparently Tatsunami was embezzling from the stable and got in trouble with the mob. Kitao got caught up in it without his knowledge and ended up as the fall guy. This article in Sumo Fan Magazine covers it in more detail:

https://www.sumofanmag.com/content/Issue_30/Rikishi_of_Old.pdf

[KinchStalker]

Well, that is a huge gap in my research.  Thanks for plugging it in.

[sek69]

Makes sense, Kitao was a grumpy asshole so I can see them deciding he'd be the perfect fall guy to solve all their problems.

[JerryvonKramer]

On 4/1/2021 at 1:23 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

He was more than just a booker. He was a trainer and the examiner for the dojo's entrance test. While he was the booker, he was instrumental in creating a freer environment for the younger wrestlers where they were allowed to do big moves in their matches. He made a lot of reforms to the undercard of All Japan and improved the training methods for rookies. He broke Misawa and Koshinaka into the business and was highly respected by both. I believe he was also an interpreter for the foreigners. According to The Great Kabuki he now drives a truck in the States. 

How did Sato go from this to being in a shitty undercard tag team for Vince?

[KinchStalker]

The bio says he returned to the States in summer 1985. He was already married to Betty Niccoli I believe, and I seem to recall reading some claim that he did a bit of booking in Memphis or somewhere around this time. Vince hired him, as earlier written, to spearhead his vague plans for Japanese expansion.

[JerryvonKramer]

I'd be really interested to know if Sato had a different type of contract to Pat Tanaka and Paul Diamond during that whole run. 

 

I'm kinda interested in the idea of a booker / lowercard wrestler. Buck Robeley also springs to mind.

[strobogo]

Was there some story to the Hansen/Choshu match 4/5/86? Sure seems like at the end Choshu gets pretty uncooperative, Hansen gets real pissed yelling out FUCK YOU, MAN after hitting a lariat, then hits another, then hits a big boot, then goes for another lariat and bumps the ref and Choshu immediately pops up to hit him with a backdrop as they go for a fuck finish.  Then instead of of the normal angry post match brawling, Hansen and his crew just kind of stand around looking mad but not doing anything and calmly walking of until Hansen comes back later when Choshu is getting his trophy and belts for a more normal post match situation. The whole thing seems very weird. 

 

[KinchStalker]

I can't say I know about any specific incident but I do know that the Ishingun era in general was a deeply frustrating time for AJPW's foreign crop.

[ohtani's jacket]

14 hours ago, JerryvonKramer said:

How did Sato go from this to being in a shitty undercard tag team for Vince?

He returned to the States in '85 and worked for Central States and Memphis before working in the AWA and WWF. He still did tours with All Japan at the time, but with the influx of talent from Japan Pro Wrestling there was no need for Baba to call him back from overseas. He wound up being a road agent for Vince on the SWS/WWF shows. He mostly dealt with the Japanese side of things while Blackjack Lanza looked after the WWF guys. 

[justinsdrown]

Thank you for all this work.

[KinchStalker]

I have begun the successor to these threads: my own Tsuruta biography.

JUMBO! [01]: Mountains of Kai – From Milo To Misawa (wordpress.com)