Daniel Bryan vs Kenta Kobashi

[elliott]

I anticipate these two challenging Flair/Funk for top 2 in the results. Similar strengths, similar weaknesses. Who you got and where do you anticipate ranking them?

[Cap]

This is the one I put forward on the GME board because this is my working #1 (Bryan) and #2 (Kobashi). Lots of road in front of us. Either could fall, but I think it is more likely that Kobashi gets jumped than Bryan right now. At some point I'll provide some version of what I wrote over there breaking down the why, but Bryan edges this out for me as of right now.

[Loss]

It's interesting that I think of Bryan as someone in the upper echelon, but when I think of him next to Misawa, Kawada and Kobashi, he feels lacking. I didn't have that same reaction seeing him compared to Flair, my #1 pick in 2016, yet I wouldn't have that reaction if Flair himself was compared to those three. Shows the value and inherent contradictions you find in your own views when you really dive into comparisons, I suppose. I guess in that case, I see Bryan as a far more technically skilled wrestler than Flair who pushed the modern style as far as it was capable of going, and I think that counts for a lot. Flair is a legend, but Flair built most of his GOAT case excelling in an environment where he was set up to excel a big chunk of the time. He was given the ideal setting, opponent, time and crowd, and delivered. The same is true of Misawa, Kawada and Kobashi, who had the benefit of mostly wrestling each other. It's unfair, but it also means that the body of work is just on a different level than it is for Bryan.

I see Bryan as the greatest wrestler of the modern generation, but I also see the modern generation as inherently weaker than what preceded it, mostly for reasons the wrestlers can't even control, and that goes beyond the amount of great matches and more into the reason those matches are great. Bryan's moments electrifying huge arenas and stadiums absolutely happened and are part of his case, but he spent a lot of time being a great wrestler having great matches without really transcending that. That's not a knock as much as it sounds like one.

[Rah]

1 hour ago, Loss said:

 Flair built most of his GOAT case excelling in an environment where he was set up to excel a big chunk of the time. He was given the ideal setting, opponent, time and crowd, and delivered. 

Wouldn't this be true for RoH Bryan, as well?

[Loss]

18 hours ago, Rah said:

Wouldn't this be true for RoH Bryan, as well?

It's a matter of opinion, but if you're asking me, no, not at all. The ideal setting for great matches is a sold out full-sized arena of people who are heavily invested in who wins and loses and are very loud about it.

[Boss Rock]

I went with Kobashi but this could change over time. Bryan has proven to be more versatile and has more instances of elevating lesser talent/broomsticks. But Kobashi has the highest peaks of any wrestler in singles and tag matches and that's going to be super hard for anyone to overcome. He's the best offensive wrestler ever and he might be the greatest seller as well. And while Kobashi's opponents were better than Bryan's best opponents, he has several classics with folks who aren't the pillars.

That being said, Bryan is an incredible offensive wrestler as well and is a terrific seller in his own right. He was BITW-level for almost all of the 2000's and for a good chunk of the 2010's when he was active (WWE booking didn't always do him a ton of favors). Perhaps when 2026 rolls around I won't have AS MUCH of an emphasis on peaks, but right now Kobashi's peaks plus having 10+ years as BITW have him at number 1.

[Jmare007]

I'm not as high on Kobashi as some, specially Boss Rock, so this isn't that hard to figure out for me. Kobashi was too over the top about a lot of stuff than even though it still ended up producing great results -and most importantly, worked like a charm in his matches- it never connected with me on the level a  his peers did. When I put him against Bryan, I'm basically more invested/drawn to almost everything DB does over Kobashi.

I guess to me, this is more of an "input" vote when it comes to these two. But I also don't believe the difference in output is that big either.

On 6/30/2021 at 6:58 PM, Loss said:

It's a matter of opinion, but if you're asking me, no, not at all. The ideal setting for great matches is a sold out full-sized arena of people who are heavily invested in who wins and loses and are very loud about it.

Korakuen Hall disagrees with this, would you take it out of an ideal setting for a great match? 

I say this because if Korakuen qualifies (I most certainly think it does), than a few US indy arenas should too.

[Tetsujin]

These two are my current #1 and #2 as well, with Kobashi being slightly on top. I think Bryan is the most versatile wrestler ever, and Kobashi has the best peak(s) anyone ever had. Both guys are absurdly charismatic and have strong arguments for being considered the best wrestler of two different decades. I went with Kobashi because I believe his absolute best matches are a bit better than Bryan's, and Bryan doesn't have the all-time great selling Kobashi has (they both have every other all-time [insert any category you wanna bring].... But it's as close as any other comparison I'll ever see. I hope both guys finish at the top 5 in the overall thing by 2026.