RIP Scott Hall

[sek69]

6 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Scott Hall being so fucking cool that people legit don't mind him portraying a latino character is kinda heartwarming. He was the first BIG latin representation in wrestling for many people (sorry, Tito), so I believe he's helped a ton of people in that regard.

One of the most important wrestlers of his and any era, really.

 

Yeah Scott getting a free pass on what by all accounts should have been another racially questionable 90s WWF gimmick is a real underrated testament to his ability. 

The amount of "when I told my mother/uncle/other family member that Razor wasn't really Latino, they told me they don't care they still consider him one of us" was hilarious and heartwarming.

[El-P]

Considering Razor was a take on Scarface, authenticity was never a question !

But as much as WWE would led you to believe Razor Ramon was his most important stint (this is under that name that he was inducted in the HoF as a single), he obviously was most famous under his real name as a member of the nWo, and he quickly dropped the entire latino gimmick-speech (he kept the Hey Yo, but that really was a catchphrase).

[sek69]

True, but that was mostly due to WWE threatening to sue their balls off for doing an angle that heavily implied Hall and Nash still worked for the competition while doing as much of the same mannerisms as possible. 

[KawadaSmile]

Plus some people legit didn't know Scott Hall was Razor Ramon. One more for the bad guy!

[KinchStalker]

I have no first-hand memories of Hall as a performer, but I just want to say one thing. When I was somewhere between 10 and 12, my cousin showed me that Monday Night War doc from 2004, and I thought he was the coolest guy I'd ever seen. My only internet access at that time was my grandfather's computer, which he would let me borrow when I visited him every week. I remember printing out Scott's Wikipedia page to read when I got home, because my grandpa wouldn't let me on YouTube to actually watch clips of him. RIP

 

(I did the same with X-Pac. I was a kid, okay?)

[SteveJRogers]

26 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Plus some people legit didn't know Scott Hall was Razor Ramon. One more for the bad guy!

Now you have me wondering how many people in the crowds or TV audiences back in the spring and summer of 1996 were wondering “Why is The Diamond Studd sounding Latino and acting like he’s part of an invading force?  Same with Vinny Vegas, and what happened to his tux!?”

[KawadaSmile]

7 minutes ago, SteveJRogers said:

Now you have me wondering how many people in the crowds or TV audiences back in the spring and summer of 1996 were wondering “Why is The Diamond Studd sounding Latino and acting like he’s part of an invading force?  Same with Vinny Vegas, and what happened to his tux!?”

Or when Hall and Nash left, but Diezell and Román stayed: "Did they get a haircut?"

[Johnny Sorrow]

1 hour ago, Cien Caras said:

He’s an interesting wrestler for me in that I have no opinion on anything he did prior to joining the WWF, didn’t care for him too much during his initial Razor heel run in 92/93 and outside of the first few months of the nwo I’m largely indifferent to his wcw run. But that 3 year period from when he lost to the 123 kid until he left in 96 he is genuinely one of my favorite wrestlers ever. The whole story arc of how the humiliation of the loss to the “stick mang” evolved him from a cliched stereotype into a nuanced man struggling between wounded pride pathetically offering $10,000 for a rematch to redeem his machismo, to then developing a true affection and deeply protective instincts as he challenged his community’s expectations and his inner conflict to do the right thing and stand up against the former slave owner bully million dollar man. Their friendship was totally organic, the hairy-chested, toothpick-sucking, unshaven latino oozing raw sexuality who found himself cheered by the fans yet whose pride made him resist becoming a hand-slapping panderer, and the youthful, innocent white twink, a boy amongst men, is one of the great heart-warming relationships on wrestling because their love remained unspoken. Razor Ramon was one of wrestlings most multi-layered characters, one of the few wrestlers who showed that vulnerability doesn’t undermine masculinity and he made us all question what it really meant to be a man. RIP Chico.

Close the thread. Holy shit. Bravo.

[Log]

On 3/15/2022 at 10:19 PM, Cien Caras said:

He’s an interesting wrestler for me in that I have no opinion on anything he did prior to joining the WWF, didn’t care for him too much during his initial Razor heel run in 92/93 and outside of the first few months of the nwo I’m largely indifferent to his wcw run. But that 3 year period from when he lost to the 123 kid until he left in 96 he is genuinely one of my favorite wrestlers ever. The whole story arc of how the humiliation of the loss to the “stick mang” evolved him from a cliched stereotype into a nuanced man struggling between wounded pride pathetically offering $10,000 for a rematch to redeem his machismo, to then developing a true affection and deeply protective instincts as he challenged his community’s expectations and his inner conflict to do the right thing and stand up against the former slave owner bully million dollar man. Their friendship was totally organic, the hairy-chested, toothpick-sucking, unshaven latino oozing raw sexuality who found himself cheered by the fans yet whose pride made him resist becoming a hand-slapping panderer, and the youthful, innocent white twink, a boy amongst men, is one of the great heart-warming relationships on wrestling because their love remained unspoken. Razor Ramon was one of wrestlings most multi-layered characters, one of the few wrestlers who showed that vulnerability doesn’t undermine masculinity and he made us all question what it really meant to be a man. RIP Chico.

Razor/123 Kid storyline = Power of the Dog?  

 

[sek69]

This reminds me of the old DVDVR thread that imagined HBK and HHH as a long term couple working out their differences and I love it. 

[El-P]

Details brought on by Waltman are kinda heartbreaking. Was isolated during the pandemic which started his drinking habits again. Fell on the floor when he broke his hip and couldn't get back up for several days until DDP showed up after being alerted by friends they could not join him. Very, very sad stuff.

https://www.f4wonline.com/news/other-wrestling/further-details-on-scott-hall-broken-hip-pandemic-isolation-issues-emerge

[CurtainJerker]

I always knew Scott would leave us too soon.

I first noticed Scott Hall when he teamed with Curt Hennig in the AWA, although I do recall seeing the name Starship Coyote in a PWI mag. I had Scott's 3 inch AWA mini-masher action figure. Followed him as The Diamond Stud and then Razor Ramon. Was really impressed with how well he was able to change his appearances. I really thought Scott would have stayed with the WWF since Razor Ramon was such a WWF-type gimmick. But lo and behold, he got over on his own name in his return to WCW.

Hall is someone who was underrated in terms of awards and star/Cagematch ratings. When I look at his canon accomplishments, his legacy is that he was I-C champ, had two great matches with Shawn, and shook up the industry in 1996. That misses his various gimmicks, making Sean Waltman, insane levels of charisma, mainstream appeal, Clique, exactly how important he was in the Monday Night Wars and over the Outsiders were, and tons of other intangible things. Sadly, his "demons" will probably always be mentioned. In fairness, he was a bad drunk but at least he didn't deny it.

I did like Bryan Alvarez's discussion about his career with Lance Storm, about how Hall was a great professional wrestler in terms of psychology and character work, but because he didn't have the great matches or MOVEZ he is tended to be overlooked. He said he worked safe, got his opponents over, made the fans happy, and wasn't as selfish as the other 1990s guys. IIRC Bryan also scratched his head about how Diesel was chosen over Razor for the WWE title (could have been on his show with Mike S.), and the answer was that Nash was taller. 

 

[sek69]

While his demons are widely (and correctly) discussed when talking about Scott Hall, it's very seldom mentioned the incident before he got into wrestling where he had to kill a guy in self defense that seemed to be the trigger point for them. Makes me wonder how many other people who get written off as irredeemable addicts got that way due to mental health stigmas in society. 

[flyonthewall2983]

I love the story he told about working MSG for the first time as Razor, against Randy Savage, and how Vince told him to hold off on coming out to his music, to the point that he was making Vince wait and tell him to get out there.

If professional wrestling is an art, which I believe it is, he defined the aspect of both psychology and his spot on the card as art. He probably would have been a decent guy on top, but it was better when you weren’t sure if he was going to win and lose but it never affected the reliability he brought to what he did.

Knowing now just how fragile he was inside with everything from his childhood, that terrible incident referenced above, and of course his addictions, really brings home how good he was at hiding it all when the cameras went on and the bright lights hit. A demon in and of itself at times, as it turns out it was the blanket he himself needed from those pains.