MoS Posted August 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 I know and understand that tonight was just a transitional episode of AEW TV, just setting things up for next week, but in the larger context of wrestling, with everything happening in respect of Hunter coming back and treating this as basically a Wrestlemania week, it really, in my opinion, seemed ill-advised to present such a weak show given in mind this particular context. Especially, symbolically, given everything that's happening and will happen in WWE with Hunter in charge, having one of your OG stars in Orange Cassidy get beaten clean by a mid ROH guy like Lethal just doesn't sit well for me. I don't think this was the week to do it, transitional and setting up episode (and for Wardlow's challenge admittedly, but there were other ways his challenge could have been booked) or not, given the larger context of what is happening in wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrodak Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 Jay Lethal rocks and is barely ever on television, why is him prevailing over the underneath comedy guy so disagreeable again? If it’s his purported inappropriate behavior in RoH, fair, but that’s an argument against him being signed at all. If he is going to remain signed, he very much seems like he should be going over Orange Cassidy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted August 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 I get what you are saying, so please believe me when I say this is not an attempt at disrespecting you: it is an attempt at disrespecting only Jay Lethal: he is mid and unlike OC, he has never shown any charisma or proven he can get over on a major league national level promotion, unless he is doing tired Ric Flair imitations in front of the original, who is reacting appropriately and making the entire segment as worthy on his own strength, not the pretender's strength. Like him or hate him, OC has organically proven that he has got over in a major league on a national level with his charisma and presence, and is a legit TV quarters draw, someone who pops up interest in PPVs like the NJPW supercard, and all of this is apart from being a merchandise pusher; he just pops ratings in a way Lethal just is simply not capable of despite months of him being promoted - his match was the only one on the Death of Dishonour card that was promoted, even the FTR-Briscoes II was not that promoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted August 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrodak Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 Fair enough, I suppose. I’ve always thought Jay Lethal was a pretty strong performer, and I certainly prefer him to OC. I also think “months of him being promoted” is rather a strange way of phrasing it - Lethal has barely been on TV since he got there last year, lost on tv almost every time, and the “promotion” for the RoH match was mostly 30-second unadvertised backstage promos. If you don’t like him, it’s whatever, but Tony hasn’t given him even 5% of the push Orange Cassidy has gotten, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 OC losing after his leg was wrecked the entire match is fine. He's still on the rocket as a serious wrestler now. More importantly, It's m gonna buy the first wrestling shirt I've bought since my Monsoon " Gorilla Position" shirt purchase 9 years ago. I'm grabbing that Thunder Rosa " Sandbag" shirt if it's available. That's fucking great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 For a placeholder show with an "eh" lineup on paper...as a live event, this overdelivered. Maybe I was starstruck by my first live Dynamite, but I'd go and watch it all again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 JR was so bad tonight. I loved every second of it. Nothing makes me happier than awkward wrestling commentary and guys covering. It's so old school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 1 minute ago, PeteF3 said: For a placeholder show with an "eh" lineup on paper...as a live event, this overdelivered. Maybe I was starstruck by my first live Dynamite, but I'd go and watch it all again. Dude, I'm halfway through watching this show and it's been fun as hell. I'm sure it was a blast live. You missed JR bringing up Bruce Dern, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 Coach TK doesn't react to Trip or a RAW huge ratings because he doesn't have to. Would made no sense to hit the panic button. It's a long haul game, or like Trip would say, "a marathon, not a sprint". Going on about their business and looking to build toward a hot Fall seasons before TV contract negociations is the goal. And in the shorter term, next week is the big show. Orange vs Lethal was terrific. Lethal has been nothing but *great* in every situation he's been put thus far in AEW (much to my surprise). Orange losing is not gonna hurt him one bit. He's a guy who can lose and stay over, plus it's been made clear his leg had been fucked up. Not worried about Orange, who has picked quite a bit of steam back since his return. Thunderstorm vs Britt & Hayter was also terrific. All four were, really. Love me some more Hayter, and Britt has gotten more snugg lately it seems, fits her character well. Rosa vs Hayter with hopefully some really stiff work incoming, that should be really good. Adam Cole back but not really. So, does Omega comes back to team with the Bucks after all or will Hangman reunite with them before ? The Elite drama has always been the best thing in AEW as far as long term storyline. And matches too. People can say whatever about Jericho, but at 51 (I think that's undersold), the guy can still deliver some really good singles match including workers from a totally different generation. He's actually much better in this simple setting than in WWE-like gimmicked matches. On the other hand, I'm sorry to say that Christian Cage has been wildly underdelivering to me. He's been *solid* at best. I sure hope after the Jungle Boy loss he's not getting that much more featured spot (not that he even works that many matches anyway, fuck, Sting has worked a ton more), because I don't see anything special or interesting in this guy's work anymore (last stuff I enjoyed from him was his IMPACT stuff last year). For a supposed "great mind", there's nothing even in term of "details" that I can gather from his stuff, it's routine older Christian Cage, which is solid and all, but really now, there is about 50 people I'd rather watch. Even Iron-Sheiked Matt Hardy is more interesting because he's in such a rough shape that it's kinda compelling to see him still try as hard as he physically can. There you go. Mance Warner ? Well, that's a choice... Never was a fan in MLW nor GCW, he's Jimmy Havoc level guy to me with kinda annoying white trash promos, but hey, I guess if Mox wants to have a garbage bloodbath again he's the guy. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but really I only enjoyed him when Sami Callihan was beating his ass. Madison !!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 8 hours ago, Blehschmidt said: Every week it seems like there is a different guy front row, center with either Cornette signs or a Cornette t-shirt (or both) who spends the whole show looking like he hates everything he is watching. I just can't fathom spending the amount of money that a front row ticket costs to "troll" the show or whatever it is they think they are doing. I mean, how fucking stupid do you have to be to drop a couple hundred bucks on something you hate? Morons. Noticed it too. And yeah, how fucking dumb can you be. He's paying good money to look like a complete dumbfuck on TV. Corny's army certainly is something. NOt to mention it deprives someone who would have enjoyed the show of a good spot. Whatever. People are dumb shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 Christian has been great in this new heel role, but I don't know what else he could be expected to do with a literal broken Matt Hardy at this stage of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 Yeah, I went into watching that match with an open mind but poor old Matt really needs to hang it up, or at the very least stop trying to wrestle like it’s 20 years ago. It’s legitimately sad watching him walk down the aisle and climb into the ring. You can tell that his neck, back, and probably his hips and knees are shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 Nothing to do with Matt Hardy, who worked super hard here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 27 minutes ago, El-P said: Nothing to do with Matt Hardy, who worked super hard here. It does in the sense that it looked like Christian's thought process the whole match was "I hope I don't kill this poor guy". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 26 minutes ago, sek69 said: It does in the sense that it looked like Christian's thought process the whole match was "I hope I don't kill this poor guy". It doesn't because I wasn't making reference to this match in particular (which was fine, and as Broken as he is I thought Hardy was fine too) rather a thought on Christian's AEW stint in general. I don't find his in-ring work to be either super impressive nor very interesting (sure, he had two excellent matches with Omega, who can have an excellent matches with anyone). He's been solid, that's pretty much it, no more, no less (which is good I guess, but you would expect more out of a so-called great worker). I don't see how he's been better than guys like Kazarian for instance, in term of veteran worker. And tbh I've not been a big fan of his edgelord-like promos about "Your daddy is dead !" either. But I wasn't about to pile on Christian Cage (whom for the longest time I considered underrated). He's just not a super interesting part of the product to me (despite me hoping the heel turn would benefit him). He clearly got a super deal, because he seems to work a match every now and then only, as showed by his W/L record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 I think the issue is that everyone assumed that Christian was some underrated star waiting to happen that was just overshadowed by Edge in WWF/E, but the truth is he's what he is: a solid hand, nothing more nothing less. What he's doing here is the same as when he was the NWA champ back in the TNA days, not terrible by any means but not out of this world great either. (Sorry @C.S.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 11 minutes ago, sek69 said: but the truth is he's what he is: a solid hand, nothing more nothing less. What he's doing here is the same as when he was the NWA champ back in the TNA days, not terrible by any means but not out of this world great either. Yes, exactly this. Kinda got the same feeling when I went through his TNA years. On a more positive note, I thought Austin Gunn really shined during the dumpster match. That bump on the ramp off that garbage can was a hoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 Christian strikes me as a case of being a much better worker as a face but a much better character as a heel. Regardless, he's made it clear that he's the better half of E&C. Say what you want about him going for the gusto with cheap heat, it beats the hell out of Edge's mountain of omnipotence or whateverthefuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 Not too mention…AEW has no need for guys like Matt Hardy and Christian taking up valuable TV time anymore. At least, not in a match. I don’t think anybody needs to see guys who got famous in another organization 20 years ago. I appreciate that in a sense, their presence in this match and angle are meant to put over the younger, future superstar in Jungle Boy. This is not a major problem though, I don’t think. Overall, Tony Khan is starting to do a much better job pushing younger talent. Hook, Hobbs, Starks, Wardlow, The Gunn Club, The Acclaimed, these guys are the future of AEW. Give me way more Darby, please. Hell, they are even pushing Garcia and Wheeler, two guys I can’t see as future Main Event guys for a couple of reasons. But I’m down with that, as we say on the streets. Out with the old, in with the new. Oh yeah, and FTR needs to be on TV every week. If we have to see The Best Friends every damn week, then we sure as hell should be seeing FTR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said: Oh yeah, and FTR needs to be on TV every week. If we have to see The Best Friends every damn week, then we sure as hell should be seeing FTR. I don't disagree, but Dax's shoulder is being held together by thoughts & prayers so I can live with him taking a week off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 5, 2022 Report Share Posted August 5, 2022 CS can be a bit much here about Christian. So am I . I think we can put aside any past differences to come together and completely shit on all this Christian bashing bullshit. The Christian/ Jungle Boy angle is awesome, has been awesome, and will continue to be awesome. Christian carried Hardy to an entertaining match last night, and he's my favorite total piece of shit heel in wrestling. I never have gotten this whole " Hes a heel who works like a babyface " complaint I see about various performers over the years. Why would a guy stop doing his moves just because he's a good guy or a bad guy? It makes no sense as a fighting strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted August 5, 2022 Report Share Posted August 5, 2022 He's not even the best Christian in wrestling. Shawn Michaels is. (Sorry, been meaning to use that one for a while.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 5, 2022 Report Share Posted August 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said: I think we can put aside any past differences to come together and completely shit on all this Christian bashing bullshit. Sure, saying a gut is a solid worker is "bashing". To me the angle with Jungle Boy works overall (the turn angle was actually greatly executed), and I hope for an excellent match in the end, but I thought the promos were a bit much for nothing, it came out of nowhere. That's an issue with AEW booking though in general, things kinda happen because they do. Brian Alvarez made what I thought was a super interesting point the other day, TK knows how to end his stories, but has issues with the beginnings. Which kinda goes along that feeling of booking kinda going nowhere or being flawed after a super hot PPV or TV show. The destination always ends up being a really great show, but the starts are not always the smoothest. Doesn't apply to everything of course, but there's maybe something to that. 4 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said: Why would a guy stop doing his moves just because he's a good guy or a bad guy? It makes no sense as a fighting strategy. All Christian Cage issues aside, on this, totally agree. That's a criticism that makes no sense whatsoever. Even back in the "old days", the MX had a bigger and cooler moveset (thanks to Eaton mostly) than any babyfaces anywhere. Which is one reason, among many, why they were considered so much better than anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 5, 2022 Report Share Posted August 5, 2022 15 minutes ago, El-P said: ven back in the "old days", the MX had a bigger and cooler moveset (thanks to Eaton mostly) than any babyfaces anywhere. Which is one reason, among many, why they were considered so much better than anyone else. Funny how that's something that never changes in wrestling. The Great Muta got over doing things no one (in the US at least) had seen done before. Dave when talking about Rey's 20th WWE anniversary mentioned how Konnan got him in to AAA by telling Pena "look I know you don't think this little guy is anything special but he can do things no one else in the world has done before" We see it today too as guys like Vikingo drop jaws and immediately become "I'll buy a show if this guy on on the card" level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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