Wrestlemania

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

HE HAD IT COMING. HE WRESTLED FOR MONEY.

[Tim Evans]

I'd be surprised if Madusa came back too because she's probably making a better living now racing Monster trucks than she did in wrestling.

[sek69]

The continued Luger bashing, considering Luger is currently practically broke, alone, confined to a wheelchair, and reborn, is petty.

 

Luger's actually walking again, not that it disproves your point, I just wanted to throw that out there.

 

 

It's pretty funny, the whole Bruno/Vince deal as it's the opposite of the usual thing of someone being removed from history over some petty bullshit. Bruno gets mentioned favorably all the time and it seems fairly obvious that Vince has respect for him and wants to patch things up. It's weird seeing the ex employee in the position of holding a weird grudge, but there it is.

 

Also I'd wager if Bruno outlives Vince (and given their lifestyles it seems more likely than you'd think) he'd probably at least agree to go into the WWE HOF.

[Bix]

From the new WON:

Debra Marshall is not doing the show. She will be appearing at Booker T’s fan fest. WWE officials weren’t happy with her talking about being beaten by Austin, and the drug use and behavior of wrestlers in general on television after the Benoit incident.

Not a surprise or anything but it sure looks bad in print.

[Loss]

Wow, so many people in the company now have said, implied, or leaked that Debra deserved to be beaten because she was a bitch.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

I remember reading a few years back that the feeling backstage was that while no one condoned Austin beating her, they all understood how she could drive a man to hit her. But still, I felt the same way Bix did when I read that. I guess they feel her talking about being beaten was worse than Austin actually doing the beating, because they sure will work with him! (Yes, I know it's all about money. But "WWE officials weren’t happy with her talking about being beaten by Austin"? Give me a fucking break.)

[Jingus]

Anyone else remember all the online smark hatred for Debra back around Benoitgate? I couldn't begin to recall how many times someone claimed she "had an agenda" or was "putting herself over" when she appeared on those news shows. Yet nobody could ever quite explain what her agenda was. She wasn't trying for publicity, she was completely out of the wrestling business, she wasn't trying to sell a book or anything. She seemed to just want to tell the truth about things that happened, and it's pathetic how angry some people will get when you just tell the truth about things they'd rather ignore.

 

It's pretty funny, the whole Bruno/Vince deal as it's the opposite of the usual thing of someone being removed from history over some petty bullshit. Bruno gets mentioned favorably all the time and it seems fairly obvious that Vince has respect for him and wants to patch things up. It's weird seeing the ex employee in the position of holding a weird grudge, but there it is.

The WWE does sometimes still take some odd little shots at Bruno. Like, a few months back on Raw, they had a video package about the big Shea Stadium show... and they pretended that Hogan/Andre was the main event match that drew the crowd. Never even mentioned Bruno/Larry. Which is rather like if twenty years from now they did a video package on Wrestlemania X-7 and talked about how Triple H vs. Undertaker had drawn this massive sold-out crowd.

[kjh]

I think I found the insider and smark hatred for Marc Mero funnier, acting like he was speaking out just because he was bitter that his wife became a much bigger wrestling star than he ever was.

[sek69]

So let's look at the WM card so far:

 

HHH vs Orton: I was actually stoked for this when they did the angle with Steph getting RKO'd, but since then all they've done is show HHH as a guy who gets blown up chasing someone around backstage. I don't think I can remember a match booked as a WM main event that was so full of "meh".

 

 

Cena vs Edge vs Big Show: Show seems to be a transparent add on to make people forget Cena/Edge has been done a million times, but at least the angle with the Vickie love triangle was amusing. Edge usually has good performances, Cena is one of this era's best despite all the irrational smark hate, and Show's smart enough to GTFO of their way and let them do their thing.

 

 

Taker vs HBK: Nothing says pro wrestling more than the fact that a match between two broken down 40-somethings is probably the most anticipated match on the card. The only thing that worries me is they are having Taker do promos as a regular dude and not a supernatural being, and seeing him stumble over his promo on RAW was the first time in a while it was noticable that he's not quite used to doing that again. Still, these are two guys who would die before putting on a bad WM performance so I'm sure they'll pull something off.

 

Hardy vs Hardy: Matt is starting to click as a heel, and for once Jeff's emo-ness helps the storyline (YOU KILLED MAH DAWG, BAWWWWWW~!). Those two have been practicing this match for 20+ years, so it should be top notch.

 

Jericho vs Legend: I hope they hurry up and pick Lawler for this, I really want to see a Heel Jericho vs Serious Jerry Lawler promo battle. It would be off the charts. Also Lawler is one of the few legends who can still work his style of match believably (he of the 10 minute phantom object heat spots), and Jericho's certainly capable of picking up the slack on the in-ring side if need be.

 

 

Money in the Bank: Maybe I'm paranoid, but it sure seems that they're sticking Christian in this match so they can use it as justification for their irrational hate-boner they have about him if/when he isn't able to carry the whole match singlehandedly.

 

 

Diva Battle: This is pretty much the Trish Spot and for morbid curiosity to see who they dug up from the past and how they aged. I just hope they don't bring Mae in since she almost died in the ring the last time.

 

 

Unoffical:

 

Miz/Morrison vs Colons: I don't know if this is going to be step one of ending the brand split, but it seems they're going to unify the tag titles at some point so why not at WM?

 

 

JBL vs Kozlov. JBL's SHOCK THE WORLD bit is apparently going to be retiring at WM as IC champ. Since it's in his home state it makes sense, but Kozlov is just beyond terrible and they're matching him with a guy who's in such bad shape he's wrestling on TV with bigger breasts than most of the Divas.

[kjh]

I think the fact that they put Christian in the Money In The Bank match, instead of having him job to Swagger again on the show, indicates that he's starting to win the key decision makers over with the quality of his recent performances. I wouldn't be surprised if he even wins the match. As for the quality of the match, it'll be fine, as it's really hard to completely screw up a multi man ladder match.

[Al]

Didn't Jericho challenge Flair to a match at Wrestlemania? Did something happen since Raw on Monday?

[Tim Evans]

JBL vs Kozlov? I would think it would be JBL vs Rey.

[sek69]

The idea is for JBL to retire as champ as a babyface for the Texas crowd, beating Rey wouldn't allow that.

[Tim Evans]

But why Kozlov? If they want him to retire as champion, he should be the one to face Jericho.

[Loss]

Didn't Jericho challenge Flair to a match at Wrestlemania? Did something happen since Raw on Monday?

He challenged Flair to a match this coming week on Raw.

[Strummer]

so HHH/Orton is now no DQ.

 

I really can't predict a finish for the match. When the angle first started I had in the back of my mind Steph turning on Hunter allowing Orton to win. They could still go that way I guess but it would be almost impossible to make sense out of (even in a whacked out pro wrestling way) The no dq stip pretty much guarentees a big run in finish

[Loss]

Maybe Batista. It sounds like at the very least, he'll be healthy enough to do a run-in by that point, and that would set up a HHH/Orton/Batista Backlash match, and they're fond of doing multi-person title matches at Backlash.

[kjh]

Jericho seems to be facing Snuka, Steamboat and Piper in a handicap match at Mania with Flair and Rourke watching, presumably at ringside. Well that sucks. Outside of a miracle this card is going to bomb so badly.

[sek69]

I guess "this card is going to bomb" is the new internet meme, everyone seems to be saying it but no one can explain why.

 

 

Personally the only matches that look disappointing are the Jericho match and the JBL/Rey match, and the latter only because they couldn't have made it more of an obvious "lets get this guy on the card" match for Rey.

 

I read someone's fantasy booking for the Jericho match where he takes out the legends leading up to WM, leaving Lawler to defend their honor, and that's really the only way this could be saved as the 3 guys they have in it now are too old/injured to do anything of note. I guess Steamboat could possibly have a possible match but I'd hate to see him shatter his spine in a meaningless match and be this era's Paul Orndorff.

[tomk]

so HHH/Orton is now no DQ

No DQ?

 

So HHH has been hurt more than anyone else in WWE by the no blading change. Abby in WCW seemed to have a better idea of how to move from first to second gear without blood.

 

So will HHH/Orton have blood in Mania

[kjh]

I guess "this card is going to bomb" is the new internet meme, everyone seems to be saying it but no one can explain why.

The Royal Rumble bombed (down 22% worldwide and 29% domestically). Given that they've got a weak card (no major celebrity involvement, no big name return wrestling, a dearth of fresh matches) with overall poor hype (though some angles have clicked none of the programs have had any sustained momentum or long term build), there's no reason to believe Mania won't suffer a similar year on year decline in PPV business as Rumble did.

[Loss]

The economy is a valid reason for PPV buys to be down from previous years. I agree that the build hasn't been on target, but even if it had, there are no guarantees anything they do would be successful this year, especially with the PPV being so expensive. That - I think - is every bit as big a factor in the Rumble being down this year as creative problems.

 

It doesn't explain TV ratings, though.

[kjh]

Actually I think the economy is to some extent a BS excuse (sure it explains some of the decline but not all of it), as UFC PPV business has remained strong, which indicates that if WWE had matches people wanted to pay to see their PPV business would have held up. I mean, UFC's latest B-level afternoon PPV show from the UK headlined by Dan Henderson vs. Rich Franklin outdrew Rumble in North America by over 50,000 buys.

[Death From Above]

WWE desperately needs some fresh blood but now they are really seeing the effect of more or less anihilating all their legitimate competition. I think we're really starting to see the effect of what having one real national company with a huuuuuge gap underneath it for a long term period of time actually means to their ability to do anything fresh.

 

WWE has never been that great at internally developing talent in the "we train you from the begining of your career, we bring you up, you spend your whole career with us" kind of sense. Even guys that "made it" there such as Undertaker or Kevin Nash or Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels weren't coming up through some sort of internal WWE developmental program. They've always been the masters of the free agent signing. And in some cases like Austin it was more of a "thow shit at the wall and see what sticks" kind of signing as opposed to some master plan to make people that big. There are exceptions when it comes to internally manufacturing stars, but when you look at who they are: Angle, Lesnar, Lashley, and The Rock (who didn't "start" in WWE technically but it was his first "significant" company) would be the four recent history prominent examples that come to mind, and are all guys they actually did pretty much build from the ground up, and they are all out of wrestling except Angle. I don't know what that says exactly, but it is... odd. (I guess you could also make the tongue in cheek arguement that Angle being in TNA means he's out of wrestling too, but I won't go there.)

 

HHH, Orton, Cena, probably a Batista appearance, Jericho, JBL, Mysterio, Edge, Undertaker, Michaels... These are your headliners, more or less.

 

Is there a fresh matchup available between *any* of them that makes any sense at all to be running? I guess Orton vs. Batista is coming and that could have some life to it. Aside from that, it's pretty much all been done many times over hasn't it?

 

WWE has had periods where they struggled for main event matchups before, but then they at least had the option of lucking into something like Steve Austin, a guy I don't think they really had big plans for initially but because the competition was there, the opportunity to sign him and fluke into it was there too.

 

The industry hurting as a whole is hurting their ability to produce new big business just as much as it is hurting everyone else. You can't have the same 8 people main event 2 major TV shows and 12 PPV a year for a decade and not have it go stale. I don't care if it's chocolate cake, you don't eat it every day.

[Loss]

Actually I think the economy is to some extent a BS excuse (sure it explains some of the decline but not all of it), as UFC PPV business has remained strong, which indicates that if WWE had matches people wanted to pay to see their PPV business would have held up. I mean, UFC's latest B-level afternoon PPV show from the UK headlined by Dan Henderson vs. Rich Franklin outdrew Rumble in North America by over 50,000 buys.

UFC was outdrawing WWE before the bubble burst on the economy, and it continues to outdraw it on a smaller scale after the bubble burst on the economy. I wouldn't have disagreed had that been your original point. But you mentioned the Rumble being down from last year, which I do attribute to the economy.