The Thread Killer

We were just talking about this in the WWE TV thread, and I will cross-post here what I said there... Just for fun, let's review the Jon Jones file: He's undefeated, the UFC Light Heavyweight Champion, and on his way to establishing a legacy. And then... - He totals his car and is charged with Driving Under The Influence. - He refuses to accept a fight against Chael Sonnen, who was stepping in at the last minute to fight after Dan Henderson got injured. Because he refuses to fight, an entire UFC show is cancelled for the first time ever and UFC 151 never happens. Not only does his refusal to fight cause an entire PPV to be cancelled, in the aftermath Jones basically comes across in the media as the ultimate spoiled athlete, entitled and self absorbed. - Jones then spends the next couple of years adding to his spoiled and entitled reputation, as he is accused of ducking fights with both Glover Teixiera and Alex Gustafsson. Jones appears to be especially reluctant to face Gustafsson, who many people thought actually beat him the first time they fought. He also adds to his reputation as a dirty fighter for using illegal elbow strikes against Matt Hamill, and also is constantly getting warnings for poking his opponents in the eyes. - He is accused of writing homophobic slurs on Instagram. In response, Jones claims his phone was stolen and his account was hacked - He then tests positive for cocaine, and gives an interview implying that is one of the first times he ever took cocaine. He asks for the forgiveness of his fans, but comes across as very insincere. - He then is involved in a hit and run, where he is involved in a car accident with a pregnant woman. He flees the scene, and drugs are found in his car. He is finally suspended for six months and stripped of his title. - He swears he is going to stay on the straight and narrow, and then gets arrested for drag racing. Because it's smart to drive like an idiot after you've been arrested for getting in a hit and run. - He comes back after his suspension and wins the "interim" title but then...surprise! He tests positive for steroids. He gets suspended again, this time for a year. - He finally comes back after his year long suspension, swears he's changed etc., and wins the title. Now he flunks another steroid test. This guy is a total moron. He needs to be banned from the sport for life. He probably won't be, but it really doesn't matter. He's totally sullied whatever legacy he might have had, not to mention that he's literally cost himself his prime fighting years by being suspended so often and so long, and cost himself millions of dollars from missed fights and sponsorships. They say he's looking at a minimum 2 year suspension this time, so I hope Brock didn't have his heart set on that fight.

I take back everything I said about the Owens/Styles feud. Inserting Baron Corbin is just what this angle needed to keep it fresh and interesting.

Are you SERIOUS?! Jon Jones may very well be the biggest moron in the history of sports. Yes.....and Yes, He probably fucked over Brock since that was his leverage to get another fat WWE deal too. Just for fun, let's review the Jon Jones file: He's undefeated, the UFC Light Heavyweight Champion, and on his way to establishing a legacy. And then... - He totals his car and is charged with Driving Under The Influence. - He refuses to accept a fight against Chael Sonnen, who was stepping in at the last minute to fight after Dan Henderson got injured. Because he refuses to fight, an entire UFC show is cancelled for the first time ever and UFC 151 never happens. Not only does his refusal to fight cause an entire PPV to be cancelled, in the aftermath Jones basically comes across in the media as the ultimate spoiled athlete, entitled and self absorbed. - Jones then spends the next couple of years adding to his spoiled and entitled reputation, as he is accused of ducking fights with both Glover Teixiera and Alex Gustafsson. Jones appears to be especially reluctant to face Gustafsson, who many people thought actually beat him the first time they fought. He also adds to his reputation as a dirty fighter for using illegal elbow strikes against Matt Hamill, and also is constantly getting warnings for poking his opponents in the eyes. - He is accused of writing homophobic slurs on Instagram. In response, Jones claims his phone was stolen and his account was hacked - He then tests positive for cocaine, and gives an interview implying that is one of the first times he ever took cocaine. He asks for the forgiveness of his fans, but comes across as very insincere. - He then is involved in a hit and run, where he is involved in a car accident with a pregnant woman. He flees the scene, and drugs are found in his car. He is finally suspended for six months and stripped of his title. - He swears he is going to stay on the straight and narrow, and then gets arrested for drag racing. Because it's smart to drive like an idiot after you've been arrested for getting in a hit and run. - He comes back after his suspension and wins the "interim" title but then...surprise! He tests positive for steroids. He gets suspended again, this time for a year. - He finally comes back after his year long suspension, swears he's changed etc., and wins the title. Now he flunks another steroid test. This guy is a total moron. He needs to be banned from the sport for life. He probably won't be, but it really doesn't matter. He's totally sullied whatever legacy he might have had, not to mention that he's literally cost himself his prime fighting years by being suspended so often and so long, and cost himself millions of dollars from missed fights and sponsorships. They say he's looking at a minimum 2 years suspension this time, so I hope Brock didn't have his heart set on that fight.

Are you SERIOUS?! Jon Jones may very well be the biggest moron in the history of sports.

The Kevin Owens/AJ Styles feud is only rivaled by Miz/Dean Ambrose as The Feud That Wouldn't Die. I watched the opening segment, I was excited about the US Open Challenge, and then Kevin Owens came out. I almost wept. Is it just me, or was Bobby Roode's Smackdown debut a little underwhelming? So he interrupted and then beat Aiden English. Whoop-de-doo. Also, is he supposed to be a face?

I wonder if Cena is holding a bit of a grudge over some of the promos Miz cut with Maryse leading up to Wrestlemania, making fun of he and Nikki. I remember reading at the time that a lot of those segments and promos weren't being tightly scripted and the gloves were off a bit. I remember a lot of people were expecting Cena to tee off on Miz, but Miz actually came out looking better. To my mind, Miz did a hell of a lot better making Cena look bad in the buildup to that match rather than the other way around. There was never really much doubt who was going to win the battle, but I always thought the Miz won the war.

No, I found that really interesting.

I work almost exclusively with recent immigrants from India, since the Pharmaceutical company I work with has a branch in Bangalore and staff are always transferring in. All those guys speak Hindi, not Punjabi. I assumed Jinder would speak that dialect. Of course, he was born in Calgary, Alberta...so I could also have been safe in assuming he'd come out on hockey skates, eating a back bacon sandwich, drinking a beer, and listening to Rush.

Jinder Mahal: Settle in for the long haul and embrace the bacne!

I really have mixed feelings on KENTA. If you ever get bored and are so inclined to check it out, I'd say KENTA's prime was probably between 2006-2009. He had a match in 2007 in ROH against Bryan Danielson (at Driven, I think it was) that I remembered loving at the time, but to be fair I have not seen it since and I might be remembering it as better than it was. Even as far back as his formative years, I remember in 2004, on the same NOAH show when Kobashi defended against Takayama, the co-Main Event was Misawa and Ogawa (who were the GHC Tag Team Champs) defending against KENTA and Marufuji, (who were the Jr. Tag Team Champs.) I remember that match being really good and a lot of fun too. There was a spot where KENTA imitated Kawada and repeatedly kicked Misawa in the face, the crowd went nuts and needless to say, Misawa was not impressed, and let KENTA know it. When Misawa finally came to America and wrestled in ROH, he defended the GHC title against KENTA. It's an average at best match, it was more special to see Misawa in front of an American audience that clearly worshiped him (as well they should have). But that is good indicator of what KENTA wrestled like in his prime, and ROH has it available free on YouTube. The biggest knocks against KENTA were that his selling was kind of spotty, and that he wrestled a very specific style which focused on a lot of repeated high impact moves and false finishes, not so much mat based stuff or real old school psychology. There are those who said (and I don't necessarily disagree) that KENTA had a hard time when he was pushed out of his "big match" formula. Basically, he had to wrestle other guys who wrestled the same style, otherwise he couldn't produce a good match. That's probably why he had a successful run in ROH, he sort of set the template that Davey Richards and company kind of ran into the ground later on. ROH at that time was basically an AJPW/NOAH cover band, if you ask me. And I don't mean that was always a bad thing. Anyhow, in his day KENTA was definitely a "your mileage may very" type of guy. When he showed up in NXT I was really surprised. I know he's only 36, but he wrestled in AJPW and NOAH for almost 15 years. I am guessing his body took about 30 years worth of punishment in that time (if not more) from that fabled "King's Road" style. Bottom line is, by 2014 I hate to say it, but he seemed way past his "best before" date. I think that might be why he has had so many injuries as well. I can't imagine you can subject your body to the type of punishment he put his through for so long without ending up a shell of yourself and injury prone. I really don't want to sound like I am advocating steroid usage, because I'm not. But to me, as Hideo Itami he has seemed smaller, slower, beat up,less fiery and not the same guy he once was. This Takeover show was the first time I had seen flashes of what KENTA once was. Having said that, I'm not sure I want to see him return to that form. I don't know if he could even do it, I don't think it fits in with the "WWE style" and it would probably kill him if he did it. It's sad to see Hideo Itami as kind of a shell of KENTA, but I really think that is the end result of the kind of style he wrestled for so long. I really loved that match with he and Black. But I don't think Itami is capable of repeating performances at that level, sadly.

OMG Gran Metalik is on RAW and they're talking about him as a potential CW Title contender! I am way too excited about this, but I love that guy!

I wondered about that. I thought maybe Nak was choking on how bad the match was, and Jinder had to give him the Heimlich Maneuver or something.

I like to imagine Vince backstage having a total conniption, pulling his hair and screaming: "WHY WON'T THEY LOVE THOSE TWO LIKE I DO?"

Opening segment was gold. Gold, Jerry. Gold! Why are they rushing Cena vs. Reigns? That has Wrestlemania written all over it, to me. Big fan of the "You both suck" chant, though.

I feel a bit guilty, because I have derailed this thread with my (totally justified and not even one little bit overly dramatic) hatred of Mauro Ranallo. Having said that, I do not feel I have lived up to my name and killed this thread yet, but it is on life support. I do feel bad, so I am going to try and get the thread back on topic by discussing the actual show, which was outstanding and deserves attention. NXT Takeover: Brooklyn III Andrade “Cien” Almas vs. Johnny Gargano Almas has definitely floundered since his NXT debut, but I think he has really found his role as a heel and the addition of Zelina Vega as his manager has helped even more. I'm not going to lie, at first I didn't "get" the dynamic between Vega and Almas, I guess I was expecting her to be more of a traditional valet and just support Almas blindly, put him over during promos, and interfere on his behalf. The whole deal with her yelling at him and almost bossing him around a bit seemed strange to me at first, but now I really like it. I have no beef with changes to old traditional roles like that, and the bottom line is that the dynamic works. I can honestly say that I can see them on the main roster and making it to the midcard level no problem. (A hell of a lot better than Mike Bennett and Maria.) NXT and the CWC was my first exposure to Johnny Gargano. I saw a bit of him in DGUSA, but not enough to leave a lasting opinion. Now I am a huge fan. His match with Ciampa during the CWC was awesome, and I loved their team a bunch. I felt so bad that their breakup got derailed by Ciampa's injury and I was worried what would happen with Gargano while he waited for the inevitable Ciampa return and subsequent feud. Gargano looked great in this match. He is in amazing shape, and that match had pretty much everything you could ever ask for in a hot opener. (Contrast it with Cena/Corbin the next night. Ugh.) I freely admit, I thought Gargano would go over here rather easily. It didn't happen and I'm glad. Almas really showed me something, and certainly Gargano didn't lose any face to me in losing that match. Going on from here, I actually wouldn't mind seeing Gargano get called up to the Cruiserweight Division to challenge Neville. When Ciampa comes back there is no reason he can't attack Gargano on 205 Live. That division and show desperately need some fresh blood and exciting matches. Anyhow, fact is that both guys really showed me something here, I have nothing bad to say about this match. Tag Team Championship Match: Sanity vs. The Authors of Pain A lot of people online have been down on Sanity. I never got that. Firstly, not every stable or talent is going to be a Main Event level act. There has to be some guys who fill important roles on the midcard, and that was always how I saw Wolfe, Dain (who I still wish would cover himself up a bit) and Young. I equated them to Raven's Flock and always hoped they would get called up to the main roster to act as the new Wyatt Family, a role I think they'd be great at. No, they're never going to Main Event Wrestlemania, but so what. They have a great look, they're quirky and weird and they can work okay. I don't really care for the Authors of Pain all that much. They're just okay in the ring, but I think they're still green as grass and even dangerous at times. Even worse, watching them I realized something sad about my childhood. I used to love Paul Ellering and the Road Warriors. When Ellering debuted as the manager of the AoP, I was happy to see him, but then sad to see that his promos were kind of cheesy melodramatic shouting. I really felt that Ellering had kind of slipped in his older age. Then I watched some old LOD stuff on the Network, and discovered to my sadness that I was looking back at Ellering with rose-colored glasses. What passed as a great promo back then for a manager doesn't really work in 2017. Ellering was always really goofy and shouty. But AoP need a mouthpiece since they don't speak English - so why not the guy who managed one of the most badass teams in history, I guess? I do think AoP have improved by leaps and bounds since their debut. I am guessing that since the Revival are down with injury again, and the AoP dropped the titles here, that they might be main roster bound, probably to work with the Hardys. If so, that could be good, but it could also suck. I don't think AoP will look as big and bad on the main roster as they did in NXT. I think they will continue to improve and will turn out to be carryable, given time, patience and good quality of opponents. Having said all that, I really, really enjoyed this match. I think this was way better than it had any right to be. I think whoever put this match together deserves a ton of credit for recognizing the limitations of the participants, knowing their strengths and weaknesses, and structuring a really fun match around that. I was not all that disappointed to see Eric Young in this match, with Sanity winning the titles I assume the fabled Freebird Rule is going to be in effect. Or maybe Dain is getting called up as rumored, and maybe Sawyer Fulton will be back now that he is over his injury. Either way, what a fun ECW lite style match. I was really happy to see Bobby Fish and Kyle O`Reilly show up after the match. (Looks like they might be getting a new team name, since the announcers seemed to go out of their way NOT to call them ReDragon.) I always liked those guys in ROH and NJPW, and I can't wait to see them work WWE style Tag Team matches, which I enjoy so much more than the ROH/NJPW style of Tag Match. It was also great to hear Corey Graves, too. He is so damn good. Aleister Black vs. Hideo Itami I think it is pretty much universally felt that Itami has been a disappointment since his arrival in NXT. He has been injured a bunch of times, and there is something else. Please don't judge me for saying this, as I am not condoning the usage of performance enhancing drugs, BUT...Itami really doesn't look as good when he is not taking steroids. If you go back and watch KENTA in his prime in NOAH, it's pretty damn clear that he's a hell of a lot bigger. I think it is better for Itami's health and general wellbeing that he is NOT juicing now, but he is one of the more dramatic examples I can think of where a guy pretty clearly has gone off the gas and it becomes very noticeable. Aside from his NXT Title Match with Roode a couple of months ago, I am hard pressed to remember a good Itami match in NXT. Maybe the mini-angle he worked with Chris Hero. I freaking love Aleister Black. He is one of my favorite things about Pro Wrestling right now. He has such a unique and eye-catching look, and his wrestling style is not just the bland style that some WWE wrestlers can be accused of working. I am nervous about his promos, and I fear that the creative team on the main roster won't get him or know how to use him...I worry he'll end up being Bray Wyatt 2.0. But for now, I am really enjoying his rise. For the third time in a row, this match really exceeded my expectations. I was hoping Black would bring his "A" game, and he did. But Itami really showed me something and rose to the challenge. This match was everything I was hoping that it could be. I hope both guys can build off this and continue to impress. And I didn't mind JR as the guest commentator one little bit. Women's Championship Match: Asuka vs. Ember Moon To be honest, I am not as enamored with the NXT Women's Division or with Women's Wrestling in general as most people here at PWO. I don't hate it, but I have a really hard time getting emotionally invested in it, as well. But...you'd have to be blind not to see that Asuka is head and shoulders above the entire NXT Women's division, and probably 99% of the main roster too, while we're at it. I don't mind Ember Moon. She has a fantastic look, but I find her promos kind of weak. On one hand, eventually they're going to have to take the title off Asuka at some point. On the other hand, I don't think Ember Moon is believable enough to do it. On the other hand (I'm using three hands for this argument) who really is good enough to beat Asuka? It's going to have to be some sort of screwjob or something, with outside interference in order to be believable. NXT Championship Match: Drew McIntyre vs. Bobby Roode I am going to leave myself open to criticism here, but I don't get the Bobby Roode hate. I don't think he'll ever be World Champion on the main roster, but I think he's definitely capable of being an "upper midcarder." To me, I can see him on the same level as The Miz, for example. I think that's an obtainable goal for him. His ring work is solid if not flashy, his promos are good if not great, and he has a good look. And yes...that entrance and vainglorious attitude really cracks me up and makes him a throwback to the cocky heels I loved growing up. Damn, is Drew McIntyre good. This guy literally has it all. He's big, he can wrestle, he can move, he has a great look, good promos...I look forward to his reign in NXT and seeing what kind of challengers they have lined up for him. As far as this match I think McIntyre is exactly the kind of guy Roode needs to be in there with, somebody who can work as well or better than he. I wouldn't say this match was great or excellent, but it was just solid back and forth action. It was engaging and kept my interest. There was nothing during this match that made me think either of these guys didn't deserve to be in this Main Event. Was it a MOTYC? Nope, but it was better than about 95% of the crap that was to follow the next night at Summerslam. Final Thoughts Poor Percy Watson. I don't hate the guy, but he really seems to be in over his head. I keep forgetting he is there until Ranallo or Nigel throw to him to get his response, to which he comes back with a bland or obvious observation - or he gets the wrestler's name or move wrong. Speaking of which, I am happy to eat a big plate of crow about Nigel McGuinness. I didn't like him at all in ROH. I found him to be nasal sounding, whiny and uninteresting. Not only is he really damn good as a color guy in NXT (and on the UK shows) but he is getting better all the time, and his personality is starting to come out. I am obviously in the minority here, but I didn't like that band. I never like live bands at wrestling shows, except for Motorhead at Wrestlemania, because Lemmy rules all your faces and Motorhead kicks all the ass in the history of history. But I didn't really like Code Orange or whatever they were called. I didn't much see the point of them being there, but it was a small thing and not worth quibbling about. And obviously some of you enjoyed it, so there is clearly some merit there. Just not my particular preference. I never really liked Adam Cole in ROH. I didn't get him, much as I suspect some of you don't get the appeal of Bobby Roode. He's just okay, but I didn't see him as the franchise or anything. But I am not upset he is in NXT, I really want to see what they can do with him and what he can do for them. I am prepared to be open minded about this and see how he does. Maybe he just needs to be tweaked a bit. (I don't mean he needs to take crystal meth, either. Although that would make for an interesting character.) And I DO love stables, so Cole, Fish and O'Reilly as a unit are exciting to me. I wish there were more factions and stables on the main roster, so I'll enjoy them where I can get them. The crowd was awesome. I love the atmosphere at NXT shows. The theme to this show for me was "exceeded expectations." Almas was way better in the opener than I thought he would be, and the match rocked as a result. The Tag Title match seriously surprised me with how fun it was. Itami really rose to the challenge as well, and made his match better than I thought it would be. All these guys working so hard combined to make this show so much better than I thought it would be...and I thought it would be good to very good. Instead we got an excellent show, with no bad matches and a real fun atmosphere. To me, this show was the absolute antithesis of the show the next night. Great matches, good booking and a damn good time. Thank God for NXT.

It's not even so much that he retained the title. The match was boring, bland and uninspiring, and Mahal didn't even really have to cheat to beat Nakamura, unless you count the minor distraction by the Singh Brothers. He just hit Nakamura with that rather unimpressive looking move (which I assume is his finish) and pinned him. Nakamura did not come out of that match looking great. You can put some of that on Nakamura and the whole "Nakamura is lazy and coasting now" theory, but I think if they wanted to keep Nak as a legit Main Event level guy, they should have made it look a lot harder for Mahal to beat him. I just don't understand the logic of giving Nakamura a major rub like he got when Cena put him over clean a couple of weeks ago, only to turn around and have him lose in such an unimpressive looking fashion when he gets his title shot. Unless you buy the theory that Vince was really mad at him about the supposedly botched suplex spot in the match against Cena.

How do you know this? Were you there? No. With that said, I agree people were quick to jump to conclusions about JBL - but what you posted in the quote above is also jumping to a massive conclusion. NO...you couldn't be more wrong. I clearly said I "hate hate hate hate hate" Mauro Ranallo, not just "hate hate hate." You totally missed two whole "hates." Looking at your quote makes it seem like I hate him 2/5 less than I actually do. Actually, I was just being facetious. I still think JBL is a massive douche-nozzle. I couldn't care less if they fired him for being a bullying jackass. But it doesn't change the fact that I can't stand Mauro Ranallo. After all this time, I should know better than to try and express sarcasm in written form, it rarely works. Sorry.

That will be $14.95 and not in that toilet paper you call Canadian money either. I want it in American... Great. Now I have to get another job just to pay for this. I shouldn't have wasted my free 30 day trial.

That Main Event was definitely amazing. Kudos to the live crowd for managing to survive the horrific shit leading up to that, and still be that vocal for the Main Event. Overall, this would have gone down as one of the worst shows I've ever seen, were it not for that Main Event and a couple of other very sporadic bright spots. I had more fun shooting the shit with everybody in this thread than I did watching the show...and nobody here charged me money to do that. At least not yet. And if you do charge me I probably won't pay. Probably.

If I ever suffer a serious neck or back injury, I really hope I don't get the same EMT's they use on most wrestling shows.

Braun beating the shit out of Lesnar repeatedly is amazing.

LMFAO @ Corey Graves. "God I hope Strowman uses Saxton as a weapn."

Hey did you guys know that Brock Lesnar could lose this match and his title without factoring into the decision? I don't think it has been mentioned at all during the buildup to this match.

Reigns winning the title wouldn't be? The fans will shit on it - some of them at least - but from a quality standpoint, it still wouldn't suck like that last match. Or any of the matches before it, for that matter.

You know, based on the four participants there is pretty much no way they can fuck this match or the result up...but based on this entire show I am morbidly curious to see if WWE could actually pull it off. And I have confidence they can, somehow. Maybe they'll insert James Ellesworth as a last minute addition and put the belt on him.