The Thread Killer

Good question and a great idea for a thread to stimulate discussion. Question for those who would know... Was Jumbo Tsuruta considered a star and a good worker as soon as he debuted? I know Baba sent him to train with the Funks in the States before making him a star in AJPW, but I don’t know if he was considered a rookie phenom or if he slowly worked his way up?

I’m an unabashed Corgan era NWA fan, but I just can’t get into this empty arena stuff, I don’t care which promotion it is. The only place I’ve seen pull it off is AEW because they can at least seat some fans. If the NWA doesn’t have an outdoor place to run shows with at least some fans, I don’t know how much I would even want to see it. Plus, Corgan gave anybody who asked for it their release, so what kind of roster will he have? I assume the talent exchange with ROH is done because of what happened to Marty Scurll. On top of all that Corgan doesn’t have Lagana to do the day-to-day grunt work, so who is going to run the NWA? I loved the new NWA but they are facing one hell of a long road back from the COVID mess.

Conrad held a live “Ask Conrad Anything” tonight on AFS and he said that he is finally ready to announce who his new, 6th podcast cohost is going to be. Conrad claims all the paperwork is signed, the deal is done and that an announcement can be expected about his new podcast in the next 10 days. Conrad says that this new cohost will probably end up being the biggest name out of all of his shows. I guess we’ll see if that is true or just hype.

So does that mean The North are done as a team? Because if that is the case, that would suck. They're excellent. Unless this is a precursor to The North showing up in AEW, which would be outstanding. FTR vs. The North is really a match that needs to happen, and from what I've read both teams want it to.

Mauro Ranallo going to work for Impact is highly unlikely. Ranallo worked for the Fight Network in Canada which is owned by Anthem (that's how they got into business with Dixie Carter to begin with and ended up being one of the many people she owed money, which resulted in then eventually purchasing the company.) Apparently, Mauro's tenure at The Fight Network was not pleasant for all involved, and he ended up departing under less than friendly circumstances, so a return to the same parent company is probably not going to happen.

I hear you. I once saw Bret Hart cut a promo that was so bad, my friends and I still quote it for fun, and this was 34 years ago. Back in the mid-eighties, the WWF would frequently air local market promos on their syndicated shows. Usually these promos were used to hype upcoming house shows (at Maple Leaf Gardens in my case, but obviously it varied from market to market.) Once in a while, between the matches or before they went to commercial, they would have a wrestler or tag team do just a generic promo which was obviously meant to fill time. One week, Ken Resnick was interviewing The Hart Foundation, minus Jimmy Hart. As bad as Bret was cutting promos at that point, Jim Neidhart was just as bad...if not worse. He usually just stood there stroking his goatee and cackling...and whenever the interview was over he'd scream "YEAH BABY!" and that would be it. So during this promo, poor old Bret was doing most of the talking. The Hart Foundation were talking about how they were the best Tag Team in the WWF and how they deserved a title shot...blah blah blah. Ken Resnick then started naming other teams and Bret would basically claim The Hart Foundation were better. You could tell that they obviously didn't plan this interview ahead of time. Resnick asked about The Killer Bees, and The Islanders, and other teams like that. The all of the sudden, he asked Bret: "Well, what about The Machines?" (Who were still comprised of Andre and The Masked Superstar at that point.) Bret totally froze, and you could tell that for whatever reason he wasn't expecting to be asked about The Machines. Finally, he stuttered out a reply... "The Machines?" "Yes, The Machines." *awkward pause while Bret looks like a deer caught in the headlights* "Well...let me tell you about The Machines." *awkward pause* "When you're big...(long pause)...and you're stupid...(long pause)...then...(long pause)...then it doesn't matter." End promo. From that point on, when my friends and I were hanging out watching wrestling, every now and then one of us would turn to the other and say: "What about The Machines?" To which the other guy would make his eyes open as wide as he could, and stutter and reply: "Well...when you're big...and...you're stupid...then...it doesn't matter." We still quote that to this day.

Here’s a terrifying thought... The Mauro Ranallo that you heard in WWE was how he sounded when he was being heavily produced and told in his headset what he could and couldn’t say, or do. Now imagine for a moment what Mauro Ranallo would sound like in AEW if he was given free reign and could act however he wanted and work to his own natural instincts without anybody keeping him in check or holding him back. I can only imagine that he’d be standing on top of the announcer’s desk, frantically jumping up and down, red faced, bellowing rhyming nonsensical pop culture references at the top of his lungs...and every time anybody else tried to speak, or even get a word in edgewise he would physically assault them.

Yeah, I think Bret's improvement with promos can be traced back to his hiatus after Wrestlemania 12. After he lost the title to Shawn Michaels, Bret made it pretty clear that he was going to try his hand at acting, and from what I understand he actually took it very seriously and underwent professional training and took acting lessons. He landed a part on the (admittedly terrible) spin-off series Lonesome Dove. The original mini-series Lonesome Dove in 1989 was based on Larry McMurtuy's Pulitizer Prize winning novel and starred Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones. That mini-series was outstanding. For my money, it is the best "Western" ever filmed (with Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven coming in close second.) After the huge success of the Lonesome Dove mini-series, they did a pretty terrible sequel called "Return to Lonesome Dove" (starring Jon Voight in place of Tommy Lee Jones who wanted nothing to do with it) and that second mini-series led directly into the Lonesome Dove TV show. The show was filmed in Canada, and was a Canadian co-production. When Bret Hart landed a guest spot on the show, it actually made the news here in Canada. His guest spot was actually pretty well received and he was apparently offered a full time spot in the cast of the show, but then it ended up getting cancelled. You can see some of his scenes on YouTube, and they're not terrible. Of course, like they do with every Pro Wrestler who lands an acting job...his first scene is replete with bodyslams and brawling...but his acting wasn't really all that bad. I've heard Bret say in interviews that if the show had stayed on the air and been a success, he might not have ended up coming back into the WWF in November 1996. I'm not sure I buy that, but Jim Ross and Bruce Prichard have both confirmed that Bret was super serious about getting the part on the Lonesome Dove TV show and was taking it very seriously. You can pretty much chart it...as soon as Bret Hart returned in the fall of 1996, his promos were significantly improved. I agree with @El-P in that I thought his promos after his heel turn were perfectly acceptable at worst, and they were frequently very good during the Canada vs. USA angle. And I think can be attributed to the acting he did during his hiatus in 1996. The whole "Bret Hart is a lousy promo" talking point pretty much dies at that point, if you ask me. He absolutely was early in his career, but like everything else he took it seriously and worked hard to get better. Hell, this is the man who cut the "Who are you to doubt El Dandy" promo. That shit was gold.

By the way...anybody who wishes they could hear the Wrestling Game Rewind podcast, drop me a PM.

You were able to get through that whole thing?! If so, I'm impressed. I usually enjoy Last's roundtable discussions but I had to tap out after getting about halfway through the first episode. I think a 4 hour podcast devoted to nothing else but the Observer HOF is a bit much, honestly. I enjoyed hearing Fumi Saito's perspective because it always interesting to her what somebody who actually lives and works in Japan has to say about how the Japanese fans perceive Pro Wrestling...but I thought guys like Kurt Brown brought pretty much nothing to the discussion and actually took away from it. Cornette usually adds a lot to the conversation due to his encyclopedic knowledge of Pro Wrestling history but obviously thanks to his falling out with Meltzer he didn't even vote this year, so he didn't appear on the Superpodcast HOF episode...and despite what you might think of Jim Cornette, it really could have used him.

Thank you, John. I was a Hyatte fan, and got the impression in his last weeks that it was important to him that he be remembered. I wanted to do my part to make that happen, in my own very small way.

The reaction Prichard had on his podcast the week Howard Finkel died was pretty gut wrenching, honestly. He totally broke down and could barely speak. Considering how close Prichard and Patterson were, and how highly Bruce speaks of him I can't imagine this episode was any easier for Prichard to get through. Especially so soon. I haven't listen to an episode of STW in ages, but when this shows up on my AFS feed I'll probably give it a listen.

It was bound to happen sooner or later, dude. You've lasted a long longer than most of us did.

Pretty much what @rovert said. Plus, I think the important thing when you look at the falling out between Cornette and Meltzer is the context and the history and depth of their friendship. I remember reading Larry Matysik's book where he talked about the time in Professional Wrestling when Dave Meltzer first arrived on the scene. "Kayfabe" was alive and well and the reaction to Meltzer and the Observer was apparently pretty vitriolic. One one hand, a lot of people in the industry reportedly absolutely hated the guy for "exposing the business" (back when that was really a thing) while at the same time, Jim Ross has pointed out that half the guys who outwardly claimed to hate Meltzer's guts secretly subscribed to the newsletter under different names. The point is, when Meltzer first arrived on the scene it, behind the scenes in Pro Wrestling it was not considered to be a particularly wise move to admit that you read the Observer, never mind admitting that you actually talked to Dave Meltzer. Remember Mick Foley even mentioned that in his first book, that he thought Dave Meltzer was so hated in the Pro Wrestling business that Foley joked that he assumed Meltzer had to stay in hiding like Salman Rushdie. There were guys who did talk to Meltzer, of course. He got his information from someplace, obviously. Larry Matysik was one of those guys, as was Bruiser Brody (which probably helps explain why Meltzer deifies Brody to this day.) There were plenty of others. But there was a big difference between the guys who would talk to Meltzer and those who would admit they talked to Meltzer and even go so far as to defend the guy. Jim Cornette is one of the few guys who was pretty much open about the fact that he subscribed to the Observer and moreover he was friends with Dave Meltzer. Cornette has said he would talk to Meltzer all the time. They apparently shared an enthusiasm for Pro Wrestling history and traded tapes. Hell, it is a fact that Dave Meltzer got his famous "star rating system" from Jim Cornette. Jim Cornette really legitimately liked Dave Meltzer and considered him a personal friend. This became obvious several times over the years when Cornette would leap to Meltzer's defense when other names in the industry would bash Meltzer and try and discredit him. I don't think this was just a casual friendship, I think Cornette had some loyalty to Dave Meltzer and legitimately liked him and respected his work. Their friendship appeared to be intact up until very recently. Once Cornette more or less retired from any significant active participation in Pro Wrestling, we all know he started venting about "modern" Pro Wrestling in countless Shoot Interviews and his podcast. Around the same time, Dave Meltzer was getting into PWG and then established his presence on Twitter. It's pretty obvious that the PWG crowd embraced Dave Meltzer a lot more openly than he had historically been received behind the scenes. I don't know if that was the reason why, but like rovert pointed out, Meltzer started taking shots at Jim Cornette on Twitter and defending the PWG crowd...ironically much in the way that Cornette had used Twitter to defend Meltzer against guys like Bruce Prichard and Eric Bischoff. Periodically on his podcast, Brian Last would ask Jim Cornette about something Meltzer had said about Cornette on Twitter (usually pertaining to his being out of touch with the modern product or something like that) and usually Cornette would either laugh and shrug it off, or at worst he would say something mildly antagonistic back. But you could tell they were still friends. Like I said, Cornette even had Meltzer on his podcast in the last couple of years to "debate" modern Pro Wrestling with him. Apparently, the issues that caused the permanent rift between Cornette and Meltzer was two-fold. Firstly, I guess Brian Last is a member at Dave Meltzer's messageboard that is attached to the Observer. (I don't know much about it, I do not subscribe to the Observer but I've heard people refer to it as "The Board.") Dave Meltzer supposedly made a couple of sharply worded comments or statements about Jim Cornette on that board. Brian Last is friends with Dave Meltzer but he is obviously also friends with Jim Cornette. Last supposedly contacted Cornette and asked him if there was legit issues between Meltzer and Cornette. When Cornette asked him why, Last told him what Meltzer had said about Cornette on his messageboard. I assume Cornette does not have a membership at that messageboard, so he was unaware that Meltzer had said anything derogatory or insulting about him. Cornette claims that he contacted Dave Meltzer and asked him if they had a problem. Meltzer reportedly denied it. Cornette reportedly asked Meltzer to lay off the insults towards him out of respect for their friendship, and the inference was that Cornette would refrain from bashing Meltzer for his opinion on modern Pro Wrestling (although he obviously wouldn't stop bashing modern Pro Wrestling.) Cornette seemed to think they had a gentleman's agreement not to antagonize each other in public anymore. Whether or not that is true is up for speculation. It was apparently not too long after that when Dave Meltzer Tweeted his infamous statement that The Young Bucks were the modern incarnation of the Midnight Express. Obviously that antagonized Jim Cornette, and Brian Last has said that he feels that it was clearly intended to do so. Regardless, Cornette didn't flip out on Meltzer for making the statement about the Midnight Express (although he would have done so anyhow) but he was pissed off because they had supposedly just privately agreed not to publicly bash or antagonize each other. Cornette has claimed (right or wrong) that Dave Meltzer was basically trying to ingratiate himself with the "cool kids" by deliberately pissing off one of his oldest friends. The straw that broke the camel's back was the situation regarding Jim Cornette's infamous "Fried Chicken" joke on NWA Power which resulted in his quitting the NWA and retiring from any active participation in modern Pro Wrestling at all. Dave Meltzer reported on the situation in the Observer. Cornette had no issue with that, because it was news. However, Meltzer wrote the story and supposedly got a number of details wrong because (in true modern Meltzer fashion) he couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone to call Jim Cornette and get his side of the story or verify any of the details. Which means one of two things...either Meltzer thought Cornette would lie to him, or he was just being lazy and couldn't bother to do his research. I guess the other possibility is that he knew Cornette was pissed at him for violating their agreement about taking shots at each other, and Meltzer wanted to avoid talking to Cornette because he knew Cornette was going to give him an earful over the whole Bucks/Midnight Express thing. Either way, Cornette felt that the fact was that his friend of almost 30 years couldn't even be bothered to pick up the phone and check on the details of a story that directly involved him. Jim Cornette claims that he sent Dave Meltzer an email and told him that he was not interested in being friends with him anymore. His reasons were that Meltzer insisted on taking shots at him, and wasn't showing him any respect. You could tell when Cornette discussed it that despite all his bluster, his feelings were hurt. I think it's pretty obvious that Cornette thinks he had done a lot to help Dave Meltzer over the years, and defended him when a lot of other people wouldn't. Despite what some people might like to claim, I don't think Cornette begrudges Dave Meltzer his opinion on modern Pro Wrestling...although he clearly doesn't agree with it. But like I said earlier, look at Jim Ross in comparison. Jim Ross and Jim Cornette have been friends for years and have both said that they "love" each other. They have both said that when they have interacted, they have just avoided the topic of AEW and modern Pro Wrestling altogether, out of respect for their friendship. Both guys have sniped at each other on their respective podcasts, but their friendship is intact. Ditto Arn Anderson (minus the sniping) and Tony Schiavone and several others. I think making a general statement implying that Jim Cornette hates modern Pro Wrestling so much that he stopped being friends with Dave Meltzer just because he likes it is a gross oversimplification of the issue between those guys. It is sad that their friendship ended. Brian Last has stated more than once that he doesn't understand why Dave Meltzer couldn't just agree to disagree with Cornette and let the issue go. I honestly think if Meltzer had laid off the cheap shots on Twitter (and on his board supposedly) then Cornette probably would have as well. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that he has done that for his other friends. But for some reason, Dave Meltzer insisted on working his "Twitter Dave" gimmick when it came to Jim Cornette. A theory is that Dave Meltzer knew that Jim Cornette is considered "toxic" by modern Pro Wrestling fans and most active Pro Wrestling organizations, so he wanted to distance himself from Cornette because it would hurt his reputation. I can't help but wonder if Meltzer stayed friends with Cornette while he was a source and useful to him, and also his defender. Cornette opened doors in the Pro Wrestling business for Dave Meltzer and made it okay to read his newsletter, talk to the guy and believe what he said. But once Cornette was no longer active in the business and had a lot of bad publicity on him, all of the sudden Meltzer is taking shots at his friend in public. That's certainly plausible. But it's a little sad. I saw an interview with FTR where they said they got the cold shoulder when they first came to AEW because they had appeared on Cornette's podcast and were friendly with him. It really does seem like Meltzer pretty much chose to try and ingratiate himself with the guys in AEW at the expense of his friendship with Jim Cornette just as much as Cornette chose to say shit that he knew would upset Dave Meltzer about his opinions. That's on both of them, not just Jim Cornette.

Jim Cornette and Dave Meltzer's friendship did not end just because Meltzer praises Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks. That is an oversimplification of what happened. Cornette has alluded to some of the reasons on his podcast, but it was more Brian Last who was a lot more open about it when it was pretty clear Cornette didn't want to discuss it. The details are out there, but you have to know where they are, and finding them involves listening to Cornette's side...which of course a lot of people understandably don't want to do. It was just a couple of years ago that Cornette actually had Meltzer on his podcast and they had a spirited debate about Omega and "modern wrestling." They ended up agreeing to disagree. The Cornette/Meltzer relationship ended after that and not just because Meltzer likes AEW. That is certainly a factor and it plays into the falling out, but it is not the primary reason. Both Cornette and Jim Ross have publicly stated that clearly they don't agree on AEW and modern wrestling, and there has been some sniping back and forth, but they have both said they are still friends. Cornette is also still friends with other people in the industry who like or even work for AEW. There's more to the Cornette/Meltzer relationship ending and in some ways it says just as much about Dave Meltzer as it does Jim Cornette.

I agree. It is funny and ironic that the booking team of McMahon, Russo and Cornette actually created a significant amount of memorable stuff in 1997. It was only after Russo forced Cornette off the creative team and Cornette left to start OVW that things really started to get stupid during the "Attitude Era" in my opinion.

I remember sneaking into to see Blade Runner in the theatre when I was around 13 years old. I loved that movie so much, it was one of the first movies I ever bought on VHS, and then DVD and then Blu Ray. I am a Blade Runner mark. When they announced they were making a sequel I was so pissed, but yeah...that movie was awesome. Visually stunning and artistic, and Ford did a great job of playing the character again.

I still consider myself a Jim Cornette fan. I pretty much agree with his opinion on Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks. But between the incessant ad reads, the interminable political rants and the repetitiveness of his reviews, his podcasts have become an absolute chore to get through. Lately, it hasn't been unusual to have to sit through almost an hour of him doing ads and then ranting about Donald Trump and Republicans before he actually starts to talk about Pro Wrestling. That's nuts. Say what you want about Conrad, but at least he gets to talking about Pro Wrestling pretty much right off the bat. He gives his co-hosts a few minutes to ramble, then they get down to business. I agree with @khawk20, using YouTube to listen to the individual segments/questions is pretty much the only way I can handle listening to Jim Cornette at this point. And as much as I respect his knowledge of the history of Pro Wrestling, his fantasy booking ideas are generally total shit. I have come to understand something about Jim Cornette, and it is a distinction I never really made until recently. Cornette understands Pro Wrestling psychology better than pretty much anybody I have ever heard. The mechanics of how, when and why Pro Wrestlers do things during a match...he is almost peerless in that department. But on the flip side, he has woefully outdated, simplistic and quite frankly unimpressive ideas when it comes to actual storytelling and booking outside the ring. The distinction is really quite remarkable. If I ran a Pro Wrestling promotion, I'd hire him in a minute to plan and layout matches and help the talent tell the story once the bell rang, but he's the next to last guy I'd ever pick to actually book the angles. (Vince Russo would be the last.)

So the first episode of "Conversations with Conrad" featuring Jim Herd was released this week. It seems to be getting some attention since this is the first interview Herd has given in over 20 years, I've seen some of the "newz" sites reporting on some of the stuff Herd said. It was moderately interesting. Jim Herd is now 88 years old and is understandably a bit feeble and frail, but he is still pretty sharp mentally and has a better memory than guys 20 years younger than he is. I am betting Jim Cornette is going to blow a gasket when some of the stuff Herd said about him and The Midnight Express gets reported. Conrad did a decent job with this interview, considering he is not a professional reporter. You could tell he was trying very hard to walk a fine line between going easy on an 88 year old man while still asking him about some of the ridiculous decisions Jim Herd made while running WCW.

Just saw this now, for some reason, sorry for the delay. I was scheduled for surgery on November 25. I went into the hospital this week for all the standard tests they need to do before a heart surgery and they found some additional issues. so the operation is being rescheduled for some time in March. Thanks very much for your well wishes, brother.

Just saw some really sad news. Sabu's manager/valet/girlfriend Melissa "Super Genie" Coates just had to have part of her leg amputated. That's terrible.

They do a lot of Crockett watch-alongs, but unfortunately they are kind of uncomfortable to listen to. Arn has a creepy habit of breathing really heavily into his headset when he does a watch-along. It ends up sounding like an obscene phone call and it's very distracting.

It was a rib on Cornette by Vince and Bruce, according to Cornette

What if you’re hoping for Last Tango in Paris

If you start using the Metric system here at PWO, the skies will darken, a giant crack will appear in the earth and Vince Russo will rise from the pit to destroy us all, bro.