goc

So much for them being called up to the Discovery Channel big leagues

Saw this over on DVDVR:

What if it's 3 in a row?

I want someone to do EMLL. (Not me though)

That's fine, but saying that women should be treated as a side show attraction (like minis) because they never drew, when they were never put into a position to draw seems ridiculous to me. Ok since MY opinion is "ridiculous" exactly why are the women indisputably a better draw than minis? Kids make up a big part of the wrestling audience too and I'm more inclined to believe that trying to draw kids is a better way to make money than trying to draw women. There is a whole lot more evidence that kids will tune in to a wrestling show in large numbers than women will. What can you actually bring to the table for your side of this argument other than "it works in NXT" and I "I think more women will watch"? Children and minis are not the same. Minis are small men, not children. It works in NXT and joshi was huge in Japan when it was a hugely pushed thing. What other reason would you need to try? 5 years ago, yeah, there wasn't the talent. Now, you have Sasha and Charlotte who you can build around. Thank you for talking to me like I'm a fucking idiot. I did not know that kids and minis are not the same. I thought it was some slick thing Mexican promoters were doing to get around child labor laws. Also why are you now bringing joshi into the argument when you dismissed SHIMMER earlier because it's "completely a women's promotion"?

That's fine, but saying that women should be treated as a side show attraction (like minis) because they never drew, when they were never put into a position to draw seems ridiculous to me. Ok since MY opinion is "ridiculous" exactly why are the women indisputably a better draw than minis? Kids make up a big part of the wrestling audience too and I'm more inclined to believe that trying to draw kids is a better way to make money than trying to draw women. There is a whole lot more evidence that kids will tune in to a wrestling show in large numbers than women will. What can you actually bring to the table for your side of this argument other than "it works in NXT" and I "I think more women will watch"?

Not to be a dick, but I'm gonna bow out of this argument. We are just arguing opinions and you don't have anything to back up your side any more than I do. I don't think that the women's division is some great untapped draw. I think they should book it better but I don't think it's going to have much of an effect on the bottom line. You think it will. That's fine.

I think having actual episodic television with interesting storylines that build week by week would do more to bring in a female audience than pushing the women's division really hard. From everything I've heard the biggest hit they ever had with their female audience was the HHH/Steph/Kurt love triangle.

I think almost killing a dude with a pair of scissors is worse than saying offensive shit.

I'm not saying you should. What I am saying is that if you treat women with respect and give them opportunities and treat their matches as actual respectful matches, then after time, you should be able to headline some B-ppvs with women. Why is that not something worth trying? I have no problem with them doing those things I just don't see how (or why) it leads to them main eventing a B-PPV. I just straight up don't believe that a B-PPV headlined by women has the same drawing power. I've not seen anything to think that there is really that much interest in women's wrestling from the entire WWE audience. This is the same audience who chanted "You suck Cena" and "You suck Tyson" at Nikki Bella & Natalya.

NXT itself is a niche. It's catered solely to hardcore fans. I don't think you can make Raw a 3 hour version of NXT and have that work.

I am tentatively interested depending on how much fantasy booking I'd actually have to write out. The draft part of it really interests me more. I think I'd rather be someone's partner/assistant booker though.

I just don't think it is. As far as the UFC comparison, it's really Ronda Rousey that is popular not so much women competing in general. I loved El Torito vs. Hornswoggle and I have been saying ever since then that I think they should do more with El Torito. But I wouldn't think WWE can get midget wrestling to the point where it can main event PPVs. Of course I fully expect people to come and flame me for comparing women's wrestling to midget wrestling but I think they are both niches that you use to complement your card, not things to build it around. Even in the hardcore fan world, ROH & PWG are way more popular than SHIMMER.

I think women's wrestling is a niche that doesn't appeal to the entire WWE audience. It has a place on the card but not as the main event. The Raw audience is a lot bigger than just the hardcore fans. It's not even a blanket statement that "all" hardcore fans like women's wrestling. I see enough posts on message boards of hardcore fans who pretty much dismiss women's wrestling altogether.

I think there are things about the indy guys going to NXT that we just don't know. We have no idea what they are getting paid or what they are being told when they are signed. A guy like Kevin Steen has to know he doesn't have the "WWE look" and so for him to sign AND agree to sit in NXT for X amount of time there has to be more to the story than what we know. One thing I am sure of is that Zayn & Owens are getting paid on a different scale from guys like Baron Corbin.

A whole lot of stuff works in NXT that doesn't work on the main roster. Full Sail is like the NXT iMPACT Zone at this point. It's not a genuine barometer of what will and won't work because it's the same audience every taping. There is still a fairly significant portion of fans, even hardcore fans who post on message boards, who are in the "I don't care about women's wrestling" camp and won't ever change their mind just like there are a lot of people who will never like lucha.

I think people are over estimating just how much of the regular WWE audience would accept that. I mean, I guess they could eventually get there but it would seriously take at least a full year of reconditioning the audience to not see the Divas as the chance to go buy merchandise/food. And even then I'm not sure because the most "hardcore smark" crowd all year is the post-Mania Raw crowd and they are the ones who completely shit on the Divas and treated like they only exist to have sex with the male roster.

This is going to be one of those "What are your criteria?" things where some people might look at this and think Adrian is a ridiculous nominee but I think he at least deserves a fair discussion. If I were going to make a list of "Top 100 characters in wrestling" Adrian Street would be on it. And pretty high up the list. It is going to be hard to point to any great Street matches to help his case though. I liked his matches with Rip Rogers in 1986 CCW although none of them were really any better than "fun TV match." My favorite Adrian Street match is him teaming with The Bullet against Robert Fuller & Jimmy Golden. It's a bunch of comedy and schtick so that's not going to have a lot of mileage for some people but this was EASILY my favorite match from 1986 CCW.

I think people are looking at the call-ups in the wrong way. I don't think they are calling up guys based on the idea that whoever is getting called up is the best NXT has to offer. It's more of a "we have this spot open and this guy would fill it well" type of thing. I don't think anyone who is making those decisions thinks that Adam Rose is a better performer than Sami Zayn but they had an opening for "goofy midcard act" and called up Rose. Kind of like a "Hey Santino is done, do we have anyone we think could fill that role?" type of thing. I don't think any Zayn fans would really want to see him called up just to become the new Santino.

It's all just talk now anyway. She can say whatever she wants in an interview but as long as she's under contract with UFC, Dana White has the final say. And he is not going to risk her getting injured just so Vince can get some mainstream buzz.

Is that any different than complaining about the direction your favorite fiction based TV show is going?Not really since people stop watching TV shows when they start not liking them. The exception used to be daytime soaps, which pretty much were the same thing as pro wrestling. I mean, I see a lot of people talk shit about how the Walking Dead isn't as good as it used to be (it really isn't) but it's still no where near the insanity of some people on the internet actively hoping that Vince McMahon dies and John Cena suffers a career ending injury. This pretty well sums up why I have never really been able to get into watching indies.

I love Sid. Always did. I don't care that he is a bad worker. He made an entire career in wrestling off of having "it." I can't explain what "it" is, but Sid had plenty of "it." He wasn't JUST a look because there have been plenty of big impressive looking guys that didn't amount to squat. Sid would make his entrance with those crazy eyes, say he was the Master and the Ruler of the World and I would have NO thoughts of changing the channel. But yea, he sucks in the ring and I can't think of any Sid match that I would really want to see. Warrior has better matches for sure. But I still think if you were going to give me a choice between a random Sid match/promo or a random Warrior match/promo I would probably take Sid. EDIT: Actually I just thought of the reason I'm going to hang my vote on: Sid came off as legitimately unhinged and dangerous (probably because it wasn't a work) and Warrior came off as unhinged and crazy but not really dangerous. More like the rambling crazy dude who you just get away from as quickly as possible. Sid is the crazy dude who you stand there and listen to until he's done with his rant because you aren't pissing him off under any circumstances.

My favorite tag team right now is The Nightmares. I think it sucks how under the radar they are since their best run was in Continental. They were just really versatile; a very good masked heel team, really fiery babyfaces, they could brawl and they could fly. Not great promos but they were good and they could carry a feud. My pick for the best would probably be the Rock N Roll Express. Amazing longevity. Unfortunately their gimmick just looked really dated after 1988 or so and that kind of hurt their ability to work in WCW & WWF. They were still great in SMW though and definitely helped keep that promotion alive as long as it did. The list of teams that they had good matches with is probably as long or longer than any other team's.

I guess I just don't understand the mentality that a guy who came up from the indies is automatically more qualified to be a top guy in WWE than a guy who came up through WWE training. I don't see where John Cena & Roman Reigns are "inferior" to Sami Zayn or Kevin Owens.

They are gonna run a Triple Threat at SummerSlam between Reigns/Lesnar/Rollins anyway. I think doing a Reigns title change before then would only make the SummerSlam match more intriguing and not less. Lesnar gets his rematch, gets to get revenge on Rollins and gets a chance at pinning the only guy he's wrestled and not pinned since his return. I don't see WWE running a straight Brock Lesnar vs. Seth Rollins match although I keep seeing people suggest it. It just wouldn't work unless the match ends up being like Brock Lesnar vs. J&J Security, Big Show, Z-Gangsta, The Ultimate Solution, Kane & Seth Rollins in a Doomsday Cage match.