Loss

I thought he'd be going to Smackdown at one point, but him getting the pinfall last night pretty much guarantees that he's staying where he is, losing HIAC to Batista and then probably going right into a feud with Cena. They may be better holding that off though, as Cena needs to be wearing the title when his movie comes out, and Edge still hasn't used his Money In The Bank gimmick.

The pay-per-view matches are "draft-proof", according to the announcement they made. So, they could draft Jericho or someone similar on Smackdown tonight and he could still wrestle on the PPV Sunday. I think HHH is going to stay on RAW actually, so he can feud with Cena. I'd expect Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho and Batista to be the final group of guys to jump to Smackdown (in that order) while the final two on RAW next week could possibly be a tag team, since I don't think Smackdown needs to sacrifice anymore main event talent than they already have. Since they're hyping Rey/Eddy being blown off this week on Smackdown in commercials, who knows, maybe Rey will go to RAW as well to line up yet another babyface for HHH.

I actually think that was to set up a Cena/Bischoff feud of some sort.

In an interesting note, Heyman has credited RAW running shows in the Manhattan Center with him having the idea to run ECW in smaller buildings. He loved that atmosphere and said he wanted to recreate it. At least that's what he said 10 years ago.

Notes from the Torch on the PPV, swiped from DVDVR: ECW PPV NEWSWIRE By Wade Keller and Jason Powell -The first altercation of the day came early at Sunday's ECW One Night Stand PPV. When a pregnant Dawn Marie arrived, she began greeting a number of people backstage. When she offered a handshake to Francine, Francine pulled her hand away and made a face. Dawn called Francine on the snub, and the two exchanged words briefly, with Dawn saying, "It's good to see you're still as pleasant as ever, *****!" The two had major heat with each other during their last run together in ECW. Dawn expressed that she felt Francine was out of line in disrespecting her on her turf and was just showing off in front of her friends. Dawn was so worked up, the belief backstage was that if she wasn't pregnant, she would have jumped Francine right there. Joey Styles could have warmed up his vocal chords by chanting "cat fight" early. They eyed each other a couple other times when in each others' sightlines, but otherwise there were no other incidents. -As a result of the Dawn Marie-Francine incident, during the preshow talent meeting held by Vince McMahon and John Laurenaitis later in the afternoon, wrestlers were told to put any grudges aside for the night. Everyone was asked to be professional and settle any disputes they had another time and another place. That made JBL's actions later all the more upsetting to other wrestlers, who felt he defied the request by management to set aside issues from the past. When confronted about it, JBL said he wasn't acting out based on a past grudge, he was reacting to what Meanie said and did to him in the ring that night. "What a bullsh-- excuse that is," says one ECW wrestler who heard that story. "He claimed Meanie was shooting on him. Big deal. Meanie was doing what he was told to do." -The locker room sentiment seemed decidedly anti-JBL. "JBL's a **** and has a huge ego," says one wrestler. "A lot of people backstage enjoyed Paul (Heyman) putting him in his place during (his promo)." Says another ECW wrestler: "What the f--- do you prove by beating up Meanie?" JBL, accompanied by Orlando Jordan, did step onto the bus after the event and told a large group of ECW wrestlers that he loved the show and really appreciated what they did. Some thought it was a magnanimous gesture, but others saw it as JBL trying to save face. In any case, JBL was consistent in saying he absolutely loved the event. It was his first ECW show ever. -Aside from the JBL-Meanie and Dawn Marie-Francine incidents, the backstage atmosphere was said to be jovial. A number of wrestlers got bored sitting around all day and some complained about the heat in the upper-level of the building, but for the most part there were a lot of smiling faces and hugs all around among the former ECW crew. And aside from the JBL incident, the WWE wrestlers fraternized with the ECW crew and appeared to be having a good time. -Although they were really into playing their anti-ECW roles, aside from a few specific gripes or reservations, most of the WWE wrestlers in attendance were absolutely blown away by the ECW experience in person and raving about it afterward. -Heyman's girlfriend and their two children were backstage at the show. Although this was the first time the kids saw ECW in person, Heyman's girlfriend had been backstage at ECW events in the past. A number of wrestlers brought family members with them backstage, something WWE frowns upon at all events other than WrestleMania. It was common for wrestlers to bring family members to ECW events. -Although the WWE creative team is taking a ton of internet heat for the perception that they were heavily involved in the ECW pay-per-view, Paul Heyman butted heads with Vince McMahon more than anyone. It was Vince who decided to place the WWE crew on the show, which is an idea that Heyman originally rejected. Heyman told friends over the weekend that he was not happy with the first week of pay-per-view hype, which led to meetings with McMahon. After working out the details of the ECW crew showing up and running off both the Raw and Smackdown wrestlers, Heyman was okay with WWE's presence at the show. And despite the backstage incident with Blue Meanie, Heyman made it known that he was very impressed with JBL's performance on the pay-per-view. -One of the hardest battles Heyman fought was convincing McMahon to let Tazz come out after Steve Austin. He also insisted that WWE secure the rights to Metallica's version of "Enter Sandman" rather than a knockoff version, and that the show be held at the Hammerstein Ballroom. It was also a difficult battle to get Rhino booked on the show after he was fired following the incident at the hotel lobby before WrestleMania. -Vince McMahon worked the gorilla position throughout the show, while Heyman sat next to him and produced the announcers. "Of course Paul was there; Vince had to eat crow" one wrestler cracked. -It was obvious to everyone that Vince McMahon and the agents were blown away by the pay-per-view, but few people, particularly McMahon, would sell it. The general consensus is that McMahon doesn't know what to do next with the brand. Perhaps the first hurdle will be re-signing Heyman, whose contract expires in approximately six months. McMahon was stoic much of the night. When Heyman made his comment about Triple H not wanting to work Tuesdays, McMahon didn't react at first. When he realized everyone else around him was laughing, and people were looking at him to see his reaction, he began laughing - but it seemed forced coming three seconds after the joke. -Stephanie McMahon and Triple H did not attend the show, but Shane McMahon was spotted at the building early in the day. -John Laurenaitis, Gerald Brisco, Arn Anderson, Tony Garea, Rick Steamboat, and Fit Finlay were the WWE agents who were working backstage. They were not intrusive, though, in how they went about organizing the show. Rather than dictating to wrestlers what to do, they merely asked them what they had in mind and asked if they needed any help with anything. -Chris Jericho intentionally wore his old style tights and used some moves he doesn't typically use in WWE because he knew fans were looking for something different than his WWE style. He foresaw what other wrestlers didn't, as Rey Mysterio didn't anticipate fans booing his signature move in WWE, the 619. -Rob Van Dam ad-libbed is promo. He had thought a lot about what he wanted to say, but never memorized a speech. He had some things he planned to talk about, but decided against while out there. Other things that he said didn't cross his mind until he was out there. There was no script approval required by McMahon, and McMahon was braced for a heartfelt, yet unflattering promo about WWE from RVD. "Vince knew RVD's guns were a-blazing," says one wrestler. -Mike Awesome suffered a deep gash on one of his knees when he dove over the top rope and onto Masato Tanaka at ringside. The cut required several stitches, but he did not do any serious damage to his knee. His kneepad caught the top rope as he sling-shot himself over the top rope and that's why he landed awkwardly. Awesome, 42, who has been with his wife for over 20 years, expressed no desire to get back into wrestling and instead was enjoying life after wrestling with his wife. His big WCW contract set him up with a degree of financial security many wrestlers never achieve. -Mike Awesome received a ton of negative crowd heat because the fans remember that he walked out on EC W without first doing a job and dropping the ECW Title. He got a four year, one million dollar contract from WCW in part because he agreed to enter WCW without losing the ECW Title first. Many ECW wrestlers still haven't forgiven him for that perceived selfish move that hurt ECW. Styles even noted on commentary that he wished a suicide dive by Awesome was successful - in the sense that it killed him. Awesome also didn't win over fans in WWE with his performance at the PPV. "There is no way Awesome did anything in that match that WWE would want," says one WWE wrestler. "He'll get a call to come back for the next ECW PPV, if there is one, but that's it." Says another WWE wrestler: "The Awesome match was way too much for the sake of being too much. But it's hard to fault the guys. They knew they had one night and they wanted to show what they could do and they absolutely worked their asses off." -Kurt Angle told people after the Tanaka vs. Awesome match that he thought the match was exciting, but was a setback for the business. The feeling among many of the WWE wrestlers was that they've spent the better part of the last two years trying to recondition the fans to appreciate the small things and buy into a different, more sensible, manageable, logical style without the bigger stunt bumps and crazy highspots. The fear was that by exposing WWE fans to that type of brutality and recklessness, fans won't respond to their style as much anymore because the bar was unnecessarily raised. Says one WWE wrestler: "We have done so much to take the business back to basics without doing so much with ladders and chairs. It's a little scary to see them do what I thought was too much. However, I would have done the same thing if I were them in their position. They showed us and everyone else why people love what they do." -After the main event, Tommy Dreamer was walking around bloodied with a smile on his face. -Paul Heyman intentionally booked finishes that surprised people, such as the retiring Lance Storm pinning top WWE star Jericho and the ostracized Awesome beating Tanaka. -Mick Foley was very nervous about doing color commentary due to his lack of experience. Heyman produced both Foley and Joey Styles throughout the show. -Joey Styles had been very outspoken against WWE in past years, so it surprised people he would give in and agree to work for the company, but Styles has a rep for answering the call when money speaks. He may work with WWE on future ECW projects, such as voiceover work for the ECW library footage. -In a decision he has to be regretting, Kevin Dunn made the executive decision to bill the show as a TV-14 event rather than with a mature audience warning. One of the many audio clips that was censored came when a fan swore while threatening to kill Eric Bischoff. -The WWE production team wasn't as pleased, and the thinking was they are used to "control" at WWE events, and they had little chance at controlling much of anything in terms of crowd behavior and lewd chants. They also are used to "state of the art" arenas, not smaller, more intimate settings, and that caused them to be out of their comfort zone. -Austin got caught up in the atmosphere in the building and had a great time. He was described as cordial, gracious, and even humble by backstage observers. He was hanging out with wrestlers all afternoon. Austin even confessed that he believed drinking a beer with Sandman did as much for him as it did for Sandman. Mikey Whipwreck asked Austin before the show if he minded if he did the Whipper Snapper, which is basically a Stone Cold Stunner off the second rope. Austin said he was cool with that, and admitted he copied the move from Mikey in the first place, so of course he could do it. "Steve was cool about everything," says one ECW wrestler. -A lot of the ECW wrestlers did agree with RVD's feelings that the WWE wrestlers didn't belong on the show. The attitude was that ECW should have had a chance to prove what it could draw on its own. "Vince didn't fear the show being unsuccessful without WWE wrestlers, he feared that it would be successful without WWE wrestlers," speculates one ECW wrestler. -Vince met with several wrestlers before and after the show and expressed gratitude to them for helping make the ECW brand so successful. Some wrestlers report that McMahon was leaving the door open for future ECW projects even before the show started. Says one WWE wrestler: "Given the political forces within WWE that have disdain for ECW, this show will have to do so well financiallly that Vince cannot justify not holding another ECW-branded event." -Sources say Heyman, not WWE officials, made the call to limit the promo time of the ECW wrestlers such as Buh Buh Ray Dudley, one of ECW's top talkers. Apparently, he didn't want the live crowd to see the top wrestlers until they made their entrances for the first time. -Heyman spoke to Edge in advance about dropping the Matt Hardy line, which explains how Edge knew when to have water in his mouth for the spit-take reaction. Aside from Edge, Heyman and Rob Van Dam did not seek approval from anyone else for the comments they made. -Bischoff is being praised by several people for the professionalism he showed throughout the ECW angle, particularly on the night of the pay-per-view. -The Amish Roadkill and Danny Doring pre-taped promo was cut off mid-stream because it aired out of order. The segment was supposed to air after Van Dam made his speech, as the duo made reference to it during their promo. Once the producers realized their blunder, they had no choice but to cut the video feed. Meanwhile, observers were laughing that the video had to be cut since earlier they had watched Doring and Roadkill do multiple takes for what should have been a simple 15-second promo. -The often grumpy Eddie Guerrero was not happy with the finish for his match against Benoit, and never seemed to get into the event on a whole. He also seemed upset with the crowd chanting at Edge in the opening minutes of his match against Benoit. There were some heated words exchanged afterward between Guerrero and Benoit as a result of how the match went. -Rey Mysterio was injured going into the PPV match and hadn't worked with Psicosis in years, so they were not happy with what they were able to do in their match. -Spike Dudley appeared to be among the more disappointed wrestlers backstage with his limited role in the show. -There were some WWE wrestlers who expressed discomfort with even being at the show since they felt out of place and unwelcome in a way that went beyond the storyline angle. -Top creative team members Dave Lagana and Ed Koskie were both working backstage at the PPV, helping with pretape promos. Both were big ECW fans and both seemed excited to be part of the event. -Sabu told friends that he was happy with his match, which was his second since sitting out several months with a medical condition. His only complaint was that he didn't have enough time, which was a common feeling among most of the wrestlers. -In the tribute to ECW wrestlers who died, wrestlers who were not included but should have been were Louie Spicolli, Brian Pillman, Road Warrior Hawk, and Eddie Gilbert. -Rob Feinstein was backstage the afternoon of the show, then watched the show from the stands. When he tried to get backstage again during the show, security wouldn't let him pass because he didn't have an official credential pass. He is a good friend of Tommy Dreamer and was involved with ECW in filming the "Fan Cam" footage for his video company. -Mick Foley's comments about leaving Mr. Socko at home were inspired by the reaction he received from the live crowd at the Hardcore Homecoming event held two nights earlier in Philadelphia. Foley pulled out Mr. Socko and the ECW Arena crowd greeted him with a chorus of boos. Foley managed to win them over again by wrapping Socko in barbed wire. -WWE's production crew was backstage in full force, filming extras for the DVD. They are rushing the DVD production because they want it to be released before the Hardcore Homecoming DVD. One wrestler who worked the Homecoming show noted that the crowd was "the hottest in the history of the building." The standout matches from Friday's show were said to be the Terry Funk vs. Shane Douglas vs. Sabu main event, Jerry Lynn vs. Justin Credible, and Kid Kash vs. Too Cold Scorpio. -The internal expectations within WWE based on various indicators are that the ECW PPV did "very well" and above initial optimistic expectations. Any buyrate larger than 500,000 and it will almost guarantee a second ECW PPV in some form just to test whether there is more money to be made with the ECW brand. -In a PWTorch.com Poll, Paul Heyman received 58 percent of votes for having given the best promo of the night, with Rob Van Dam in second place with 37 percent, followed by JBL at 3 percent and Steve Austin at 2 percent. -In another PWTorch.com Poll, 40 percent said they'd have preferred the WWE wrestlers weren't involved at all, but that the WWE stuff turned out okay. 24 percent said they liked everything about the WWE and wouldn't have changed a thing. 17 percent said the show would have been better without the WWE wrestlers. 16 percent said everything was fine except for Steve Austin being in the spotlight at the end. Only 2 percent said they wish there was more involvement on the part of WWE wrestlers.

People keep mentioning it. What is it? I know it's an indy, but is it an American indy? Who are their top stars? What type of style do they promote? Where the hell did that name come from? Thanks.

I thought this might make an interesting thread. Basically, I'm asking what the best matches are that you've seen that work a style outside of that style's environment. For example, I consider Benoit v Jarrett from Starrcade '96 to be a really good WWF main event style match, at least the style that would be used a lot after Austin rose to the top. Some have also referred to Kawada/Albright as an excellent NJ heavyweight-style match. So, for some more suggestions: (1) What's the most AJPW-style match you've seen outside of AJPW? (2) What's the best lucha match you've seen outside of Mexico? Those are just a few examples, but this could be cool.

There are probably some Takada matches from the NJ/UWFI feud of '95/96 feud that should be considered as well.

I had a point I was eventually getting to, but the show ended before I could make it. Basically, the point was that taking the belt off of Cena anytime soon would be ridiculous, especially with his movie being released later this year, and also that the final segment on RAW with the "real stars" really made him look subpar. I also pointed out that it's obvious RAW had no atmosphere or energy when someone like Chris Jericho turns heel and no one seems to really care (referring more to the online reaction than the crowd reaction).

I had the dubious honor of being the last caller on WOL tonight. Woohoo~!

I think they're afraid that if Heyman was privy to all the future storylines that he would tell Scherer or someone else online and spoilers would be around for nearly every future occurence. That's the only reason I see it being an issue. BTW, I saw that in Meltzer's preview for this issue, he said he was going to talk about the draft and who was most likely to be the last person drafted. What did he say?

Heyman pretty much screwed himself when they caught him eavesdropping on a conference call. The problem with Paul is that they can't trust him, so it's very hard to work with him.

Well, a significant portion of the DVDVR crowd is calling Taker/JBL from Smackdown this year's MOTY for WWE. Anyone see it than can agree or disagree?

At the Crockett Cup '87, Flair faced Windham and Luger teamed with Tully Blanchard in the tournament. Most of the matches are clips until you get to the finals. Flair faced Luger on the following shows: Great American Bash 1988 Starrcade 1988 Starrcade 1989 Wrestle War 1990 Capital Combat 1990 Clash XII Flair wrestled Sting on the following shows: Clash I Great American Bash 1990 Starrcade 1990 (with Flair as Black Scorpion) Clash XXVIII If Koloff had his brace on prior to the match, you probably saw the Luger match that is also on the Bash '87 commercial release. That took place on July 11, 1987, seven days after the first War Games, and saw Luger use a chair on Nikita after working his neck the whole match and ripping off the brace, to win the title. That match went 30 minutes and I've been wanting to track the thing down in full for ages (if it does indeed exist), as what was shown on the commercial release was surprisingly good. I also think Flair/Jimmy Garvin, also from the Bash '87 tape, is a much better match than people give it credit for. Gotta love Flair screaming "Oh God! Oh shit!" loudly every time he gets suplexed, taking some insane bumps in and off the cage, Garvin's crazy-ass selling and even seeing a fan make it into the cage to try to kill Flair.