khawk20

This reminds me of a Verne Gagne story Dave Meltzer told on his message board recently: Whether or not the Verne part (his statement) is true, Atlas was indeed super-over in the AWA during his stay. Atlas and Jim Brunzell even got a non-title pinfall win in Winnipeg over the Road Warriors, which was nuts when you consider that Atlas and Brunzell were also booked in handicap tag matches against Bruiser Brody in that time frame, and Brody was made to look really good in those bouts. ...So Atlas/brunzell could beat the LOD but struggle with Brody on his own? Aiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeee.......

Are there any Gordy/Blackwell matches out there? I'd have to think they'd be a lock for the dvdvr set. Only one that I recall from a TV taping in St. Paul, and it didn't go very long before the other Birds did a run-in and beat down Blackwell. Not a good match, IMO.

They did some Larry-Martel matches in Winnipeg. One match made tape out of I think two or three. It's alright but not great, IMO. Keep in mind Larry was a mid-carder at best up until mid-late 1985. As an AWA fan, I didn't buy him as a credible challenger to Martel at all, at the time he was getting his title shots. He had lost as much as he had won since his debut in the AWA in 1984 (Dusty Rhodes, an import for the June 1984 St. Paul Battleroyal, squashed him in a singles bout on that same card). Zbyszko-Martel around the horn would likely have drawn worse than Martel-Hayes did.

Gordy's attendance was spotty at best. He no-showed matches with Martel for the title (one in Chicago had Buddy Roberts get the shot), and hayes ended up subbing for him in several matches against Blackwell IIRC. Gordy/hayes is the only combo that would have matched up with the LOD with any credibility, and with Gordy not reliable, they didn't take the chance. "When the credible becomes impossible to acheive, do the opposite." Sort of describes Garvin/Regal winning the belts instead of Hayes/Gordy, I think. As previously noted, Garvin/Regal winning the titles in hindsight was a good call. In real time, it was horrible. Unfortunately real time is what counted and it hurt Verne bad. Plus the Freebirds didn't draw well in the AWA at all. people hated them (especially Hayes), but it almost seemed like a "hate you so much we wish you would go to another area" mentality. Very HonkyTonk Man-as-IC Champ-ish, IMO. The AWA had a big problem keeping guys around that would have bolstered the reign of Martel. Butch Reed was planned for a program but was out almost as fast as he came in. the program with Garvin was fine, but following it up with a similar program vs. Hayes was a big mistake. Then, more Bockwinkel, good matches but it was his third time through in a few places without a ton of space between the matches. As for Hansen, I have no idea why he didn't draw better. He was booked decently, I thought, and his opponents were the natural challengers for the strap...Slaughter, Blackwell, Martel, Bockwinkel, Hennig, building towards hall at some point. I dunno.

Hansen didn't draw flies as AWA champ. His program with Slaughter in St. Paul drew terribly. Martel didn't draw well in most markets by the end of his reign, either. Garvin and Hayes were too similar as challengers and not seen as most fans as viable thraets to the title, and Martel having troubles beating them hurt his credibility during the "Hogan is indestructable" era that was all over TV. I think the AWA took a huge hit when Garvin and Regal won their tag titles from the Road Warriors. Althuogh Attendance was down already, Garvin/Regal to Hall/Hennig to Rose/Somers was a real sign things had gone south in AWA land. The tag division was always very strong over the long haul, and these combos reeked of "just thrown together based on the talent that was left". In fairness, I liked the Garvin/Regal win over the LOD in hindsight...very well done, good way to segue over to LOD-Freebirds while freeing up the title, which had to come off the LOD at that point even though there was nobody around to beat them credibly. Using "the impossible" upset there was good. At the time, however, I was like everyone else, calling bullshit on the switch and mentally de-valuing the tag titles. I know I wasn't the only one.

??? What set are you talking about? The WWE-made one?

They did do one Ventura-Hogan match in Bloomington. There's a handheld of it. I don't know if they had any other bouts before Jesse got sick. EDIT--going back in this thread, I found this one which is probably it, which means it falls outside of the time frame noted in this discussion: Minneapolis, MN - Met Center - March 17, 1985 (5,500) Jesse Ventura defeated WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan

who missed their flight to set up this one? Actually the WWF did these heel vs. heel bout sometimes. this would have been around the time they did Sheik/Volkoff vs. hart Foundation at the Boston garden, too.

Thing is, while I can see the thought process given that it's Savage vs. Hogan...the AWA show did better than 10k as well, nearing 13 if I remember the number right. I've seen the newscasts talking about almost 30,000 fans out watching wrestling in the Twin Cities on Thanksgiving night that year. ...which makes me think that the attendance numbers being off the charts (for both events) for this shouldn't be over-analyzed. Thanksgiving as a wrestling night in the Twin Cities had simply become a tradition for a lot of fans, and that year there were two big shows that they decided to take advantage of.

The WWF vs. The AWA is interesting because outside of a few cards here and there (like the June 1984 debut card), the WWF shows did pretty miserably attendance-wise. The tide turned after the Thanksgiving 1985 show for good, but the fans seemed to resist embracing the WWF even when the AWA product wasn't enthralling them either (as witnessed by the lackluster attendance in parts of 1984 and 1985). I've got tape of clips of those WWF shows from the Met in that time frame. The sports guys (who always covered wrestling cards with results and highlights on the late news the night of and night after a card) noted that attendance at the WWF shows was brutal and the matches were abysmal. Hometown bias? Somewhat, but I think that the Twin Cities fans really gave Verne every chance they could to win that war simply because they envisoned losing the local flavour that their cards had if the generic-card WWF won out. It's the one element that I think a lot of fans didn't realize was going to happen until it was too late. I think AWA fans (specifically in Minneapolis) picked up on this while it was happening. I think it also explains why the wrestling market in Minnesota pretty much collapsed after the AWA died, if not a bit before. Too many years being the center of the wrestling world with the AWA in town made it too hard to embrace WWF cards 4 times a year, with little or no meaning other than the "national" feuds and matches.

Dave Meltzer has morphed into Dusty "everything in life is a work, especially pro sports" Wolfe?

Curt was one of the wrestlers other wrestlers tended to mark for. I think that's why he got the DVD treatment other possibly more deserving guys didn't. I recall it being mentioned that when they did Old School Raw, all the old timers were excited to meet all the second generation wrestlers they remembered as kids running around backstage. Joe Hennig was named as being especially popular among the legends since everyone was a fan of his dad. Something to consider is that Dave thought he was the best worker in the AWA way back in 1984, when he was still a young, skinny lower-to-mid carder. Over Martel and Bockwinkel...and probably a few others I'm forgetting at the moment. So if it were to be proven that Dave was a long-term pimper of Hennig's, that might be a contributing factor in the heightened legend of Curt Hennig as a top guy among fans. Just something to consider. I find it odd that Verne Gagne didn't make the list, considering the WWE has all his footage, put him in their HOF, and have ready-to-go bio pieces and matches they could have used. I would suspect those factors are a big part of who makes a list/dvd set like this, and who doesn't.

I dunno, I think Klitschko vs. Klitschko would draw huge, although it would be a terrible fight...not that it will ever get made.

Because he claimed he acted in self-defense and none of the wrestlers there were willing to step up and say he didn't, so... ...so if it went to a jury trial, he would likely have been acquitted. Oh, wait...... In hindsight, a shitty half-assed conviction would have been better than no conviction at all.

FWIW He did some work in the AWA in and around 1988, both in singles and tags. Well past his "prime" (I hate that using that word regarding wrestlers since it's so subjective) at that point.

I'd guess Eddie myself.

...seriously, Apter is/was as recognizable as the wrestlers he covered to those of us that grew up with his magazines. His "What's Happening" columns in the various mags were the highlight for probably all of us, in the age before results and everything else was instantly accessible. I'd have no issues voting him in.

He's been in and out at the Sports and Wrestling Board.

Dave always hated the AWA. He never understood how the AWA style stayed so popular for so long. It likely skews even how he looks at the greats that came out of the AWA before his time. Anytime he mentions the AWA in any context, the facts vs. his opinion should be checked thoroughly before accepting the argument...if the argument seems to make sense to you to begin with.

Please tell me there is footage of this. Ditto.

Hart's involvement in Memphis vs. Heenan's in the AWA is really an apples-and-bananas type of comparison. Promotional strategies and TV product were too different. Hart was perfect for the Memphis style of TV and angle-building and Heenan was perfect in the AWA's "less is more" approach on the TV end of it. If you transplanted each into the other's territory and time frame, I don't think either would have been as effective, for what it's worth.

I don't know whether to be outraged or start loling uncontrollably after reading that.

Hearing the Bible translated into Pro Wres terms makes the whole thing sound incredibly retarded. He's doing his religious beliefs a huge disservice spelling out like he does.

Perhaps they were counting on a lot of "Shit, I turned it off and missed it" being said the next day, so as to illustrate that viewers should watch the whole show because "anything can happen". Not likely, but even unintentionally I imagine it did that to a few people, and it did create a buzz amongst casual viewers and channel flippers as well. That's not a bad thing.

lol, just made some points about this in the Random comments thread. Mine were more about how poor the audio seems to be. I couldn't hear what Abby was talking about to rate the content.