khawk20

I've never gotten that sense in any discussions I've ever had about the Can-Ams and Strike Force. personally,I think over the long haul Strike Force was a far better team than the Can-Ams ever could have been.

Bockwinkel and a bunch of other AWA guys did that all the time in the mid-70's so that was probably part of it with others, too.

Martel-Robinson was actually a decent match given that nobody thought Robinson had a snowball's chance to take the title. Still a good competitive bout. The real seller of tickets on this card was the Roadies match, although there was also a Greg Gagne revenge match against Sheik Kaissie in a cage that would have brought some fans in, too. This was just after the Lights out match between Brody and Blackwell and it would have been Greg's first wrestling return to the ring for revenge. IIRC Masked Superstar ends up coming into the cage to save Sheik and beat on Gagne, and Jerry Blackwell comes in for the save. Blackwell was ridiculously hot as the top face about that time. The Turkey Battleroyal the WWF did was indeed mocked by the media in all of their sports reports (Twin Cities TV used to show highlights of all the wrestling cards up through at least the end of 1985, and plenty of years before that). um, what? Anyone have additional insight into who they were and why they would do something like that? That would have been a fun little sparring session. This makes little sense as the High Flyers tagged in a "reunion" match on 1/13/85 in St. Paul against Kaissie and Masked Superstar. They had not wrestled together since April of 1984 when Brody took them both out. The Flyers splitting was never teased in the Minnesota markets as far as I can remember...the opposite was the selling point. Must've ben a local Salt Lake angle of some sort or Dave misread what he thought he was seeing (or his correspondent did). After this would have been written, the Flyers teamed several times in Winnipeg (and probably many other cities) before Brunzell left for the WWF. One notable match was the Freebirds (Hayes and Roberts) getting the win in Winnipeg over Gagne and Brunzell at the stat of the Freebirds "push" (such as it was). Good stuff again, thanks.

That's crazy. It did happen though. WWF @ Hartford, CT - Civic Center - November 23, 1984 Steel Cage Turmoil: WWF IC Champion Greg Valentine defeated SD Jones WWF IC Champion Greg Valentine defeated Angelo Mosca Tony Atlas defeated WWF IC Champion Greg Valentine Tony Atlas defeated Bob Orton David Schultz defeated Tony Atlas Tito Santana defeated David Schultz Tito Santana defeated Moondog Rex Tito Santana defeated Bobby Heenan Tito Santana defeated Moondog Spot Ken Patera defeated Tito Santana Ken Patera defeated David Sammartino Ken Patera defeated Swede Hanson Ken Patera defeated Mario Mancini Ken Patera defeated Mr. Fuji Ken Patera defeated Jose Luis Rivera Chief Jay Strongbow defeated Ken Patera Big John Studd defeated Chief Jay Strongbow Big John Studd defeated Salvatore Bellomo Finals: Big John Studd defeated Rocky Johnson Non Cage Matches: David Sammartino defeated Mr. Fuji The Tonga Kid defeated Roddy Piper via disqualification Tito Santana defeated Moondog Rex Tony Atlas & Rocky Johnson defeated WWF IC Champion Greg Valentine & David Schultz via disqualification There is a handheld of this card. Gauntlet-style cage bouts. Weird but ok.

Yeah, this. Probably on one of the AWA specials that Verne originally produced that have been aired on 24/7.

I guess part of my Race-Flair post is dedicated to finding out if the myth still persists.

Speaking of which.... MYTH: Race vs. Flair at the first Starrcade was a good match. I personally have never gotten the love for this match, especially since it was ruined by the over-active "look at me!" antics of Gene Kiniski. I have seen it getting deconstructed and exposed as not-so-good some over the years, and that may even be the majority opinion amongst fans "like us" now. How that ever got "Match of the Year" status anywhere is beyond me.

Pretty sure I read somewhere that some of the places he worked used to have announcers on stand-by in case he got too drunk to go on.

Those are not unfair assertions. Things like him identifying Curt Hennig as the company's best worker in 1984 and not understanding why he wasn't being pushed more is an example. No way that Hennig was ready to be a star in 1984 and pushing him to the top at that point would have been death. Things like that make me think that Dave never really watched the product because though he wasn't far off on how good Hennig was then, he didn't seem to get that he wasn't ready to be a real star yet..and that wasn't hard to see at the time. I always thought Hennig's development curve in the AWA between 84 and 88 was well planned out and ultimately benefited Hennig as well.

One thing I have noted from all the issues of the OBserver that I have ever read is that Dave had a real hate on for the AWA. He had no respect for the idea that guys like Raschke, Vachon, Crusher and even Verne could draw or were popular because they were so long in the tooth. I always got the impression that he thought Minnesota fans were really, really stupid for buying into the AWA at all. Plus I don't think Dave actually saw much of the AWA until much later than 1984. If he had, he would have realized one simple truth: guys like Vachon and Crusher were over a ton. His AWA sections often reminded me of his hard-ons for Junkyard Dog and Bob Backlund. His comment on Heenan (or the other guy, whomever it was) makes sense to a degree but I think they still had a ton they could have done with Heenan. Imagine the Bockwinkel-Zbyszko feud with Heenan also turning on Bock and managing Larry? Off the charts heat and exactly the sort of thing that would have kept the AWA near the front when talking about the top promotions. that's just one example.

"Well there's certainly no question about THAT". Way over-used, to the point of self-parody. Never a big Solie fan. I didn't hate him, but I certainly never got the love for him, either. But I dorecognize that many people think he was the best ever and I have no problem with that. There isn't an announcer going that didn't have some sort of quirk that you either loved or hated. I love the way Gene Okerlund called AWA matches, which he did do from ringside in Minneapolis and Winnipeg. Just him, bombastic but still willing to let the action speak for itself a lot of the time.

The stall was alive and active during his entire AWA run, from 84 through 90. From my perspective, it isn't overblown at all.

Maybe it was something he did ask for, but if the promoter couldn't accomodate the request, Lou probably wrestled some anyways. Money to be made and whatnot...

Ah yes, Heenan/Bockwinkel/Saito vs. The Fabulous Ones/Blackjack Lanza(I think). I have the Raw footage for that match. The stip was that the fans got to decide which person on the losing team would wear the weaselsuit. No doubt about who would wear it (and did). It's something that Heenan touched on either in his book or his shoot. He gave Verne proper notice about going to the WWF, and Verne appreciated the notice and all he did for the AWA over the years so much that he booked the weaselsuit send-off around a bunch of the AWA circuit. Shame about the turn-out but I imagine that not many regular fans would have known Heenan was on his way out. Martel-Rheingans was covered in PWI or one of those mags. Verne reffed it, and I'm sure he thought it was a killer main event. It certainly wasn't a fan-friendly match and would have been better served to be paired with the 9/30 Brody-Blackwell bout if he wanted people to see it...although I bet he was stunned at the low number for the weaselsuit card as that gimmick always did well for the AWA. The first one with Greg Gagne in August of 1980 had heat off the charts, and other versions also did quite well.

Actually the easiest was to prove that this was a myth, IMO, is the inclusion of midget matches on any pro wrestling card pre-1984. I mean, comedy matches booked for laughs being put on just before the SUPER SERIOUS main event or just after the SUPER SERIOUS main event, with most of the same or similar moves/throws/flips/chops had to have even the most ardent believer questioning how "real" it all was.

Fuck, how cool would this have been? Fritz did run a couple of promo spots on TV about the Von Erichs coming to the Twin Cities. The insinuation by I think Kevin that they would show Twin Cities fans “what real wrestling was all about” wasn’t good. Very smarmy in it’s approach as I remember it (I have it on video somewhere). I’m going to check on what card that was. I have a feeling it was Baron/Crusher vs. the LOD just after the LOD won the tag titles and Martel-Rheingans. Card would have been in mid/late August. There was a September card featuring the initial Blackwell-Brody return bout after the Blackwell injury and I think that one would have drawn a ton more than 3 grand, although I’m pretty sure that one was at the end of September. I do have clips of that Vachon-Steele match from the evening news. It was their custom to show AWA and WWF card highlights on their sports recaps. They did so for many years. Vachon was lured away from Verne in June 1984 mostly to aid his Twin Cities assault with some "hometown" name recognition. Vachon was still hugely popular with AWA fans and was only 5 months off of headlining a St. Paul program with Bockwinkel that went over very well when Vince scooped him up. I have a clip of that Turkey Battleroyal card too. Good job, thanks for posting that recap.

Swiped from the Sports and Wrestling board... http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/19493120/detail.html

It's pretty standard on a lot of the boards I frequent. I was going to answer like jdw did, but I thought you were werking him.

Go for it. I wish I had time to do more, but like Loss said, they do take a lot of time to type up.

It's about "regular" people getting caught up in the moment, which was what the wrestlers were striving for with their matches. A heel that gets stabbed at, shot at, spit on or generally attacked likely saw it as the highest praise they could get back then.

I've long lamented the DDT's passing as a true finisher. Anyone still get a pin with that one? No move ever looked as devestating as when Jake Roberts hit it, imo. Credible to get the opponent into and easy to apply, and driving someone's head into the mat I can certainly buy as a knockout blow.

Double post, sorry. I'd rate off the top of my head these as excellent Martel title matches: 9/29/85 vs. Tsuruta, St. Paul, plus the ones in Japan I've seen part of in later 1984 8 or 9/84 vs. Bockwinkel in Winnipeg early 1985 in Winnipeg vs. Garvin Fall 1985 cage match against Boris Zurkov (yes, Boris friggin Zurkov) in Winnipeg. 20-minute draw vs. Terry Gordy, mid-1985 TV (probably PW USA). Early 1985 vs. Saito in Winnipeg title vs. title against Flair in Japan (I liked it but not as much as I thought I would when I finally saw it). Also notable was a title defense against Billy Robinson on Thanksgiving 1984 in St. Paul that was pretty good considering that nobody thought Billy had any sort of a chance to win the title. Turned out to be fun to watch.

I remember them and they were very good. As I noted in my last post, the Martel-Jumbo bouts outside of the title switch are very good. I would argue that Jumbo match discussions and dissections come up a lot more often than Martel's matches do, and that fond remembrances of their bouts are probably more from those that watched a lot of Jumbo.