khawk20

I never liked the idea that current stars could go in....just seems like any HOF should have only retired stars eligible. I do realize that is problematic in wrestling since so many guys never really "retire". Upping the eligiblity age is about the only thing that helps even that out.

Of course. Hogan-Sheik is the most obvious example of a game-changing night that I could think of. There have been numerous game-changing nights throughout wrestling history, which is how I would interpret the question/statement right off the top of my head.

Hogan-Iron Sheik 1/23/84 needs to be in this discussion, if only for the whole "set-the-wheel-in-motion" dynamic.

...and it's been as annoying as hell since they started it. This has always been a pet peeve of mine, probably because my viewing of "arena matches" was forged from the stationary camera that the AWA used to use at the Civic Center in St. Paul. 1 camera, 1 angle on everything. I liked that.

I wouldn't discount the change in landscape that went on in wrestling back when the WWF was created, if that's how you're basing a part of your rating on. Bruno was the guy tapped to be the top dog for a fledgling promotion, and it must have taken something special to pull that off. I'm not saying you're wrong putting Hogan at #1, I'm just saying that Bruno's position was similar: "We've changed things, and you're going to lead us in making that change work".

When Undertaker goes into the HOF, they won't worry about him breaking character one bit. As such, it'll be after whenever his last match is. He'll wait until the next year to go in officially, with all the bells and whistles, so as not to take away from the last match of "the streak".

They may have aired complete on TSN, but I'd have to check on that. There is a July 1984 Martel-Bock match out there from St. Paul, but it's JIP fairly late as I remember, and I don't recall having it in any sort of decent quality. I don't think any of his defenses out of Montreal made TV any earlier than this, either.

Verne Gagne's retirement match was in 1981, fwiw.

It would have been the way the TV stations filmed it, likely stopping the camera at certain points when "nothing" was happening or likely was going to "happen".

For those that might not know, the Raw Footage matches like Martel-Robinson were shot at an alternate angle without commentary specifically for the purpose of being fed to the various TV Stations for their highlight packages of the Civic Center cards, which they would broadcast bits of on the sports show that evening (sometimes doing live cut-ins), and for the next night. Several stations got in on this from around 83 through the end of 85, at least. The resulting matches end up clipped up, but the majority are there because the stations would want to extract the best bits and the finishes from the matches for their broadcasts, but they didn't know when they would happen. Though I suspect that most of these were filmed with the standard AWA commentary/stationary camera, a large portion of these bouts have never surfaced and never aired on TV. Charles Warburton's list was the first/only place I ever saw the 3/83 - 12/83 Raw footage tape before I got it, and the 1984-85 stuff I received directly from a friend in Minnesota that had them lying around for years. He suspects there is a lot more but has no idea where they would be at this point. Anyhow, just some FYI on the background of those tapes.

The part that Bix mentions about how he hated the Chris and Nancy book but kept encouraging, almost INSISTING that people buy it to see how much it sucked for themselves is one I forgot about that explains my "he was nuts" comment better than I probably could.

He had mental issues that ended up distancing himself from fans interested in the shoots he was trying to do. Contructive criticism was NOT welcome, and if you couldn't help him out at the pace he wanted, it was your fault...and he would blame you personally for it.

$50,000. And no, Wanz's reign didn't devalue the AWA title at all. That happened when things happened like Verne retiring with the AWA title in 1981 and Bockwinkel being given the title back (instead of even a one-night tournament to determine a new champ), Hansen walking out and Bockwinkel being awarded the title in 1986, and Lawler getting stripped and Larry Z winning it in a battleroyal in 1989. Wanz won and lost the title in the ring. With Wanz being a star from across the pond, it gave the AWA title an "international" feel...anyone-on-any-given-night, that sort of thing. Those things hurt the cred of the title. Wanz winning it did not, especially when it wasn't common knowledge that Wanz paid for the reign.

All I know is that I tuned into the main event last night because I was interested in what would happen. First time I've been interested in "the current product" in years. I found the match, atmosphere, and everything else about it extremely entertaining. I'm watching Raw tonight..haven't done that on purpose in years. WWE built a great angle, and executed it on PPV extremely well. I'm well past the point of offering anyting else on that subject except to say "Well Done, WWE." I hope they can keep it going, but if not I'm glad that there was a recent blow-away moment that reminded me of what a huge fan I was "back in the day". It's the same reason I'll be a fan of some sort until I die, I think. THIS sort of stuff can still happen sometimes, and it hits home.

There are matches against Abdullah the Butcher, King Tonga, Jim Garvin, Steve Strong, Dino Bravo, Sheik Ali, and others available in singles, as well as tags with Bravo against teams like Tonga/Superstar, Garvin/Ali, the Road Warriors, and many others I'm forgetting. In terms of 70's stuff there's a match against Race that's fairly common for the NWA title on TV, and some stuff from the Portland 70's tapes as I recall. Not a ton more, I don't think.

Further to your point, Hennig was able to have some really good matches against talent that had no business being in such a good match, if that makes sense. It speaks almost as a plus for Hennig that he was able to make his title matches compelling for the most part.

Are you talking about their entire AWA run, or each's run as the Champ? Martel entered the AWA in 1982, left briefly and returned in March/April of 1984, winning the title May 13 1984. he held it until December 29 1985, almost 20 months. He was out for good by April of 1986. Hennig was almost a fixture in the AWA from his debut through his jump to the WWF in July of 1988, so his time in the area was longer overall. He reigned as champ from May 2 1987 until May 9 1988, 12 months. So, for clarity, Martel hald the title longer, but Hennig spent more time overall in the AWA. You have a disc coming of Martel's Montreal work from 83-85 so you will be able to judge it accordingly soon enough. Reading this, the first thing I thought of was "you could take out the word 'Bockwinkel' and put in the word 'Martel', and it would work just as well". I think it explains why Bockwinkel was so high on Martel to be his successor in 1984 as Champ (Bock lobbied hard for Rick). Both of them really do everything well, no glaring weaknesses in either's game.

Oxymore. ...on?

A different sort of a "Fall from grace" would be Greg Gagne. Hard as it is to believe, Greg was very over and popular as a member of the High Flyers between 74 and 83. His singles bits during that time were also well-received--he was a legit challenger to Bockwinkel in 1979 after winning a non-title TV bout against him. (I know, hard to believe...). Greg began to lose his shine with the fans in a big way as 1984 began, with the proliferation of big-muscled wrestlers. Greg looked smaller against 240-260 pound guys like Bock and Raschke, but he looked absolutely puny compared to the LOD, Brody, Atlas, and Hansen...never mind the larger wrestlers in the other areas, particularly the WWF. As expansion by the WWF moved onward, more and more people were able to see the huge size difference between Greg and others, and combined with the propensity of people to cheer the large muscle guys, good or bad, in larger numbers, Greg lost credibility with the fan base in the AWA as a "main-event" performer. Now, he was a little older and his skills had diminished slightly, but he was still basically the same guy in 84-85-86. Yet people really began to hate him. It became too hard to believe that Greg could realistically win against some of the guys he wrestled, and when he did...ouch. people hated him more. I think if Greg would have wrestled from say 1964 to 1984, instead of 1974 through 1989, wrestling fans would remember Greg as a much better wrestler than they do. Greg's fall from grace is all about the era he unfortunately had to conclude his career in, in my opinion.

That sounds impossible. I'm Canadian and I always thought it was the greatest thing in the world when they would have one of those "free preview weekends" once a quarter or so because then and only then could I catch Saturday Night and maybe if I was really lucky one of the Clash shows. Even then, it depended on where in Canada you lived. Where I am, we did not get TBS or many other major TV stations out of the US at all (no option for even a free preview), yet a 2000 person town an hour up the road got TBS and all the rest. Drove me nuts. That was due to a media monopoly in our town and a whole bunch of other political bullshit that I never would have understood at that age anyways.

Given that the WWF is using their photo library so much, I wonder if the WWF has bought exclusive rights to use the old photo library. That might curtail the coffee-table book idea, if true. PWI had a run of mags in 1982-83 where they had great single-wrestler shots on the cover. It made the mags seem classier than the other magazines of the era, even the other Apter mags, which tended to use action shots on the cover. It really helped them sell the idea that PWI was a step above all the other mags of the time.

Most magazines are priced that high now, no? At least anything with colour pics, I would guess.

The WWF did the odd ones on house shows in the mid-80's. Hart Foundation vs. Sheik and Volkoff from the Boston Garden comes to mind. Sheik and Volkoff won as I recall. Those bouts always seem to come down to who the crowd hates more...the other team ends up getting cheered by default.

I still list mine and convert them for trades when asked. When I convert them, if they are relevant to me or my collection I dub a copy for myself and the VHS title comes off the list. My collection takes up space but it's well hidden for the most part so it's not a big deal..unless I have to find a misplaced tape, then all hell breaks loose.

Can you elaborate for me?