flyonthewall2983

That if Vince falls on his face with this again, it'll be more than enough ammunition to future endeavor him?

Coupled with that, the company itself was about to take some major damage too. July 1991 is just when the Zahorian stuff was making it into the press, and also when Hogan made that awful appearance on Arsenio Hall, denying he took steroids. In the long-range view of things, signing one of the most recognizable wrestlers outside of their promotion took a backseat.

You couldn't really market the Ric Flair persona the way WWF did Hogan's. It's natural setting is as a heel persona, up against an uber-babyface personality that a company would put that weight behind. After seeing the doc I feel the question of who was better is a bit nebulous at best. Just beyond any sort of athletic or physical capabilities, one couldn't do what the other excelled at. Hogan epitomized the 80's version of clean living to an extent, to the adulation of his audience (mostly children, taken with the super-human element). Flair epitomized, to an audience that was primarily of a lower financial strata, everything that they loathed and envied the 1% for. That was at least the aim of what they did. Young men of a certain age, either having grown out of or just not interested at all in what Hogan was doing, looked at Flair as the ideal. Surrounded by beautiful women, wearing the nicest stuff, topped off with the bravado that comes from knowing you're the best. At the time Flair came to the WWF, I don't think Vince ever really took that into account. I won't say that Flair's work suffered for it, he managed to keep true to the character as much as possible. But that Vince's tunnel-vision couldn't allow something like the dream match with Hogan to happen as much as anything else.

Well, consider how the 80's ended for Tully Speaking of which I found this clip recently

I've been thinking about this for years. I'm thinking I might finally do it soon.

Just without the rape, ideally. Or the water with prices that make that Nestle fucker smile. Or bad music (eh...)

I seem to remember Vince defending something (might have been Trish on her fours barking like a dog *douchechills*) to Bill Costas saying that weeks later his character got his comeuppance from that. The Attitude Era's booking ran the risk of doing these highly tasteless things that would turn people off from watching it, who later wouldn't care at all if there was something to counter-balance it from a story-telling point of view. I'm remembering this from memory but there's a pretty funny moment on Prichard's show about the XFL when he talked about the time Stephanie was on camera in the crowd, and everybody around her was chanting "slut! slut! slut!" to her. Bruce was in the production truck, and someone inside was freaking out saying "who is it? get her out of there" thinking there might have been a woman who took a top off or something. Bruce then had to explain to her that they were chanting that to the on-screen persona of who they sent out in the crowd to do a segment for their national broadcast. I say it's funny because I can imagine just how bewildering to someone who wasn't aware of the McMahons something like that would be.

I get the impression that Hogan and Flair at least have known each other since the 80's. They probably ran into each other in St. Louis a lot when Hogan was working for Verne, and Flair said in his book that whenever the NWA and WWF were in the same town or close to it they'd hang out together. He also said (and Hogan backs this up in the doc) that when he signed with Vince one of the first phone calls he got was from Hulk. For whatever reason, Hogan's ego made things hard for the two of them to get along easy in WCW.

Victator, it's funny you bring it up because Rory Karpf also directed the Tim Richmond 30 For 30. I came from a lower/middle-class background and had a father in prison from the time I was 11 until shortly after my 18th birthday. While I know that Ric's kids "had it better" intuitively I can understand a little of whatever pain/frustration they had in having someone be as distant as he was. One revelation from this doc was how much Ric was distant even from his own parents. I really don't remember if any of this was covered in his book or in shoot interviews, just that he was adopted and never bothered to find out who his real folks were. The scene where he talks about showing off his huge house to his father, who had anything but the desired response to it was just heartbreaking.

There's a couple minutes devoted to the dream WrestleMania match in Flair's 30 For 30. Ric seems not to care much that it didn't happen, while Hogan seems to. Since the Sid match was such an abortion anyway who can blame him. Flair and Savage were a better match anyway, just as far as the dynamic between the two and what they could do in the ring.

I actually think Hogan was genuine in his praise. He was specifically asked if Flair was better in the ring, not if he was better all-around.

I watched it which is why I asked. I'm actually uncertain whether that teasing on set was genuine or not. The behind-the-scenes footage was purposely shot for release by the studio to use as promotional material. I came away thinking one of two things happened. One, Lawler and Carrey did it as a work to keep what will happen on film genuine (to the point that the cast and crew think there is genuine heat between the two, which would attract it's own attention) and to play for the cameras of what was to be this behind-the-scenes footage. Or, Carrey just pissed Lawler off not having figured out or bothered to learn the intricacies of pro wrestling that helped make the original feud so hot. Most likely the 2nd part of that is true, but seeing all that posed that question in my mind much more.

I'm a bit behind. Has Bruce talked at all about the "rumors and innuendo" that Jim Carrey and Jerry Lawler were going to do an angle around the time Man On The Moon came out?

That would be a perfect post to end on if you guys really want to lock this thread up.

He looks like a normal human being? That was my takeaway, he came off as a regular guy understandibly still bitter at his dad spending his whole life drinking and whoring instead of being a dad. A lot of the children of addicts have the same look on their faces that David had, the "he's an asshole but he's my dad, whattya going to do" expression. I just meant that he looked exasperated. I could see that in his first wife, and even Ashley to a degree too.

Watched it again. David looks like hell.

I liked it. The revelations for me were more personal since it's otherwise just a Reader's Digest version of his career, which is to be expected because this film is aimed at a wider audience. Hogan saying that he's nowhere near as talented as Ric was a bit of a surprise.

https://franticplanet.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/wwf-magazines-anti-masturbation-psas/

When Warrior died I thought it'd be funny for that Halloween for some Indy wrestler to take on the gimmick of "Zombie Warrior", he comes out to the music but is at a normal walking pace.

I watched their first MSG match, which was Flair's return to the Garden 15 years after the Pete Sanchez match. Nothing significant as a match beyond that, but the crowd response to him coming out was cool. Lots of Flair/Horseman signs in the crowd which the camera tries but fails to avoid.

What happened with WrestleMania 8, from what I've read and deduced, is that it was always going to be Sid/Hogan. I'd heard that Vince wanted Sid as far back as 1990, and wouldn't have a hard time believing that the WM main event was in his contract either. I don't know if he felt as eager to get Flair, but obviously the circumstances under which he left in 1991 provided Vince the opportunity to subliminally bury his competition because the belt came along with him. My dream-booking scenario is that Flair is kept until WrestleMania 9 where he can have a loser-leaves town match with a returning Hogan. It would make for a much stronger double-main event with Bret/Yoko, and Ric can film segments in casinos looking like he's back in the Horsemen again.

I wonder what Vince makes of this whole Weinstein business. I remember a news item saying WWE was in talks them about maybe partnering up on DVD distributorship. In my head Vince and Harvey were probably rivals when they each were promoting rock concerts in the northeast during the late 70's.

I do think this should stay open, in order for the discussion about his 30 For 30 which will cover a lot of sigh-worthy things I'm sure.

Never understood that. Would have made more sense for the two teams to have eliminated each other by having a brawl on the outside, instead of in such a tepid fashion as that. Jesse and Gorilla don't really sell it much either. One call in the '88 match that still boggles me to this day is who the Conquistadors' manager was. Ventura says early on that each team on the Demolition side had one, and I suspect he just plain forgot about them.