FLIK

Interesting story from the latest ep of Formerly Creative (ep 7 p2) was that apparently they were really really close to doing War Games circa 2002 but being so fresh off of 9/11 they decided against it because it had the word "War" in it so they created the Elimination Chamber instead.

Out of curiosity, was that a deliberate decision or is that all that's available?

I disagree, the fact that it was a fading style is a bonus in it's favor. Not that this wouldn't be great in any time frame but taking place in one whear it's a bit more of a novelty doesn't hurt. They're among the last few hold outs from that 80's era and I always loved it when they or Chigusa once she came back or whoever would work against each other in singles (they worked tags diffrently most of the time) and still continue on in that style. Especially on into the late 90's and early 00's when very few of the newer generation were capable of working that style or even interested in doing so if they were. I'd kinda be disapointed if the didn't work more old school actually, like I dunno, it'd be like watching Sabu vs Abdullah the Butcher and no one getting stabed or bleeding. You just kind of exspect it going in.

Whenever you guys get around to the 92 set, OZ & Fukuoka vs Hotta & Takako from early December in JWP is another must see.

Did Gran Hamada have his own mother fucking cartoon? NO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaXQIBwZP1I Whear's Gran Hamada's spiffy new movie coming out this year? HUH HUH? http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-...on-film-in-2011 Tiger Mask fights for the orphen children and helps the elderly. It's really a no contest knock out master blaster win as far as who the #1 ichiban bestest wrestler is here

AJW 5/11/1996 (3WA Tag Titles) Kyoko Inoue & Takako Inoue © vs Manami Toyota & Mima Shimoda Thought this was a really great match, not perfect but the good outweighs the bad. Started to drag a little 30 mins in or so for a bit and the near fall section could have come a little earlier but I was never bored and they kept my full attention for all 52 mins with lots of cool little moments and mini stories though out, never felt like they were just killing time and didn't feel un-natural for them to go this long, as if they were doing it just for the sake of doing it. Megaupload link Runtime 1:02:13 Filesize 413mb http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W9D1NN8G *EDIT* Updated with the correct link

Gotta say, I never got that bad of a vibe off the Plum/Hotta match. To me that always seemed like one of those things people were looking back on in hindsight and projecting stuff that wasn't thear.

I'd seen highlight clips and other people talk about this match for years before I watched it in full for the 1st time last year. Remember being kinda disapointed by it actually in that "yeah this is good but not as much as much as I was exspecting" sorta way.

Heh, same thought as I don't ever recall this ever being a highly praised match or anything of much historical significance. Weird pick in a year whear so much great stuff ended up not making it on.

Wasn't something I felt strong enough to really fight for in the pimping thread over at Death Valley but their 4/2/93 singles match was really good. The 60 minute draw re-match between these 2 teams on 6/3 is worth tracking down as well.

Masa Horie > All

Heh, in what way?

Who came up with the Goldust character anyways? It was such a 180 from everything he'd done before, was it his idea?

Yeah, dunno how tall Aries is but Punk's a good deal taller then him.

Yeah, it was kind of weird how they did the 12/11 show making it so you can't get the entire thing from 1 source. Everything up to the main event was released on 1 comm tape (which also had Taka/Kanemura 12/10 & the Taka/Hayabusa match) and then the main event was released on a completely seperate comm tape that just focused on the history of Onita & Pogo. Then when they aired the footage on tv, all the men's matches from the card aired on 1 show and the 2 women's matches aired on a diffrent one as for a short while FMW joshi had their own seperate tv deal. Don't know which version of this match is on this set but the one i've got is from the tv airing which cut out about 3 mins of stuff.

I read the review when it was on the front page. In addition to what you said I found it one of the worst structured Babby columns in some time (hellva feat). Never read Babinsack before. Is he usually that awful? Couldn't help but notice when reading that how poorly it was written

Just popping in to point out that this was Toyota's 2nd reign not 1st. She won it from Aja in 95 but only held it for 3 months before droping it back to her. Thinking about it, never was sure why they bothered with her 1st short reign to be honest. Maybe something as simple as they decided last minute that they wanted Kansai to get a run. Given that she'd chased Aja for the better part of 2 years it didn't make any sense for Kansai to beat anyone else for the belt anyways and I dunno how far in advance it was planed but all their matches do build off each other with the final title change playing off all their previous history. Kind of similar to how it had to be Aja who took it from Bull before and it almost had to be Kyoko who took it from Toyota after.

Pretty much got the same out of this as others. Great once it got down to Santo/Dandy but kind of forgetable until then. Lucha's weird in that a noticable part of it always feels like a formality. Something the wrestlers do simply because that's how the rules of the match are set up so they just get it over with as quickly as possible rather then putting any thought or care into things.

Just get him to tell some Debbie Malenko stories and i'll be a happy man

Miz is a 4th rate Brian Christopher at best. Brian gets go away heat from me week after week though as he's just too much and too obnoxious. .......and too cool????

Did Helms ever get to use that in the WWF?

Have either of you seen the Hash/Norton tags from November on that list. Been a while since i've seen them but I remember liking both just as much/more then this one.

Thanks for the recommendation for '97. Regarding Ito, Toyota was at her best here. I liked her. Ito was less familiar to me, and thus she stood out more. But I did like Toyota a lot. There are definitely things she does well. She's much more tolerable when she hits all her crazy spots clean. As far back as 91 or 92 Ito was showing good potential, fun playing the role of Jungle Jack designated jobber. On into 93 she got her 1st push beyond the "young girl" level, winning the jr title and AJW tag belts. Her & Sakie Hasegawa was a really fun team. On thru the rest of the mid 90's she'd have a lot of good matches though maybe not much on the level of being "must see". A few stuff here & thear stands out though that isn't big 6 or 8 woman tags like her & Sakie vs Gami & Yasha Kurunei 11/28/93, her & Suzuka Minami vs LCO 3/3/94 & her vs Aja 1/16/1995. The mass exodus of 96 & 97 probably helped her cause a little but I think they always had big plans to eventually push her up the cards. 1997 was her big break out year as far as being cemented as a main event level player who was ready to hang with the big names. Always felt 97 was a hugely underrated year for AJW as they had a lot of great stuff and Ito was a big part of that 30 Minute draw vs Aja Kong 1/20/1997 vs Toyota 3/23/1997 *haven't seen but always heard this highly praised* 60 Minute draw vs Kyoko for the 3WA Title 5/11/1997 *ditto* vs Kyoko 3WA Title rematch 6/17/1997 * hurt by the fact they clipped it to less then half but what aired is good* w Hotta vs Yoshida & Toyota 6/18/1997 vs Toyota 7/13/1997 and of course the cage match which I actually think is slightly over rated. Don't get me wrong, I do love it and think it's great but in the grand scheme of Tomoko Watanabe & _ vs LCO matches there's a shit ton i'd rate ahead of this from that feud. Have to plead ignorance on 1998 AJW as i've never seen anything from that year and only very little from 99. The July stuff is amazing though Mima Shimoda & Etsuko Mita vs (ZAP T) Tomoko Watanabe & Kaoru Ito (ZAP I) Tag Titles - 7/10/1999 Lioness Asuka, Etsuko Mita & Mima Shimoda vs Manami Toyota, Kaoru Ito & Nanae Takahashi - 7/11/1999 *Famous match whear all 6 prove to be batshit insane & bump like mad women, leaping off of lighting rigs and shit in the fuckin rain* She doesn't do too much of note for the 1st half of 00 but later in the year they finally pull the trigger all the way on her push. wins JGP for the 2nd time vs Mita in a pretty good match. finally wins 3WA off Toyota on 9/23/00 In kind of a weird way the mass exodus also may have hurt her too in that they kept the 3WA on safer choices like Toyota, Hotta, Kyoko & Kandori while re-stabalizing the copany rather then giving it to her earlier. After this she goes on an amazing run of awesomeness (Cage Match) Kaoru Ito, Momoe Nakanishi & Nanae Takahashi vs Etsuko Mita, Mima Shimoda & Kumiko Maekawa - 12/9/2000 My MOTY for all of 2000 and THE match that's soley responsible for me becoming a huge fan of joshi and getting into Japanese wrestling period beyond the ocasional casual, watch a few matches I find online level. vs Etsuko Mita 3WA Title 1/13/2001 Mima Shimoda, Etsuko Mita, Yumiko Hotta & Kumiko Maekawa vs Kaoru Ito, Tomoko Watanabe, Momoe Nakanishi & Nanae Takahashi - 2/19/2001 (Elimination Match) Kaoru Ito, Tomoko Watanabe, Momoe Nakanishi & Nanae Takahashi vs Manami Toyota, Mima Shimoda, Etsuko Mita & Kumiko Maekawa - 3/19/2001 Manami Toyota, Mima Shimoda & Yumiko Hotta vs Kaoru Ito, Tomoko Watanabe & Momoe Nakanishi - 4/15/2001 This is legit my favorite 6 person tag of all time. It's up on my site if anyone wants to see for themselves (Street Fight) Yumiko Hotta vs Kaoru Ito - 5/12/2001 Hugely polarizing match - people will either tell you this is one of the best matches ever or complete fucking rubbish. I fall on the "love this" side of things myself. Their hair vs hair cage re-match in early 02 was pretty shit though, i'll concede that. 30 min draw vs Momoe 7/14/2001 vs Toyota 9/8/2001 vs Momoe 3WA Title 10/6/2001 One of the best examples I thought of people working the "speed vs power" story into a match. Helps a lot of you watch their previous one but not necessary. vs Toyota 3WA Title 2/24/2002 - loses the belt back Haven't seen any 02 AJW from after this show and nothing from 03. 04 she didn't do anything of note. AJW died in 05 but she was long gone by then anyways and post AJW she largely just fell off the map, a handfull of pretty good matches now & then though nothing to go out of your way to see and it ALL went downhill from thear. Now of course in 2011 she's sadly a shell of a shell of a shell of a shell of her former self and #1 on the list of people who should retire allready but yeah, once upon a time was one of the best in the world. She was really good in 91 & 92, very good on the mat even back then though more in your traditional old school sort of way rather then the tricked out shoot style way she'd develop in ARSION.

Close, her retirement match was a couple weeks later on the 31st, Hasegawa & Ito vs Watanabe & Michiko Nagashima. Shame too as they'd been building her up to be the next big main event star but she injured her back before they were able to pull the trigger on it.