Coffey

I was stunned; shocked at that Undertaker match. Could not believe it. Watched for 22 years for his rub to go to a part-timer...lol. I guess 'Taker just didn't wanna do it anymore & good on him for being a total pro & going out on his back. We know who is the headliner to the Hall of Fame next year! Paul Bearer dying, his body breaking down, having a home family life, launching of the WWE Network...it was time. I would have rather the rub went to someone like Cesaro or Reigns but I can't complain. The dude entertained me for over twenty years. I'm sure it was his call.

Johnny Sorrow's blind optimism is nauseating.

Bret Hart Vs. Owen Hart at Wrestlemania X was the first one that came to my mind. In general, I dislike matches that end with a roll-up. I feel cheated. So I agree with the OP name-dropping Steamboat/Savage too. Actually, come to think of it, that's one of my biggest problems with Steamboat. Most of his matches seemed to end that way & I'm not a fan of his offense at all.

Chyna? lol

Does anyone know why the Bam Bam Bigelow Vs. Kamala match at Wrestlemania IX was cancelled?

You could make a pretty sick-ass compilation DVD of just Shield tag matches from the past two years. Starting with their TLC match with Kane/Ryback/Bryan and finishing with their tag from RAW on Monday.

They don't call him "The Game" for nothing!

I always thought his character was supposed to be at least partially based on the DeNiro version of Cape Fear, which is certainly not a movie I would call fifth rate or made-for-TV.

I have no idea how the paydays work now due to the WWE Network. My first thought though, was that if this was Pay-Per-View like it was before the Network, the André Battle Royal wouldn't be happening because of how many guys would be getting that payday. That might just be the cynic in me though. I'm interested in hearing more about why C.M. Punk left after thinking about that though. I guess that shit might have already sailed.

The thing they're trying shove up Flair's ass was his hemorrhoids. Also, change "trying to think up their next flippy move" to "playing their next video game" or "tweeting about their dinner." The point still stands. The point wasn't about the moves, it was about not taking advantage of learning opportunities from legends of the industry. Terry Funk is one of the greatest professional wrestlers of all-time. If you're interested in being a star in pro-wrestling, why would you NOT want to pick his brain?

I can't foresee NBA leaving TNT. Not with the popularity of Inside the NBA with Shaq, Kenny, Charles & Ernie. That show is like...the most popular show in the entire NBA, even above the damn games. It wins emmys. The players themselves do nothing but talk about that show & make guest appearances on that show, etc. Even the NBA commissioner, the old one (Stern) and the new one (Silver) are guests on the show & talk about it. I don't think it's just about money, I just straight don't think NBA themselves would leave. I could see them being on a different night. I could see them adding more NBA games to another channel (like they did with NBA TV). I don't see anything happening that takes Inside the NBA off the air though. Too many people love Chuck.

My predictions: André The Giant Memorial Battle Royal: Alexander Rousev Triple H. Vs. Daniel Bryan Randy Orton Vs. Batista Vs. HHH/Bryan The Undertaker Vs. Brock Lesnar John Cena Vs. Bray Wyatt It seems silly to me to have a Royal Rumble on the Wrestlemania card when we just had the real Royal Rumble two months ago. Might as well use it as a launching pad for a new guy though. That being said, at least it's unpredictable & somewhat interesting. I care more about that match than Taker/Brock, Cena/Wyatt or anything on the undercard. Also, I won't lie, if Triple H beat Daniel Bryan clean in the middle and then won the WWE World Heavyweight Title in the main event, I would laugh until I cried. Just reading the internet post-show from that outcome would be worth it.

Plus, his losing to Edge was the curtain jerk of that Wrestlemania...AFTER Del Rio won the FORTY (40) man Royal Rumble to get that title shot. That's just mind-boggling on a stupid scale.. I think Edge even beat him up on his own car. So ADR wins the 40-man Royal Rumble and loses in the curtain jerk of 'Mania. But Miz retains the WWE title in the main event. All right then.

I thought the segment was great & liked the length. It felt very old school & I'm a big fan of that. Triple H is really good, I don't care what other people say. He's great. So is Bryan but for different reasons. The beginning of the show opening with Triple H adding himself to the triple-thread if he beats Bryan was a nice touch. The backstage vignette between Triple H & Stephanie McMahon did a good job of building up the man-to-man segment. For a second, I really thought Triple H was going to turn this into some scwag "respect" match. I liked HHH explaining that yeah, he was a prick, but he had to be & Bryan has earned his respect because he was still standing. You could hear the crowd audibly groan! Then Stephanie came out playing Queen B & it went up another notch. The "cops" were a great touch too. Daniel Bryan with the whole "Yes Movement!" and 1% thing from last week, then this week the cops assaulting him when he didn't do anything wrong. Not really subtle but I thought it was good. Then Hunter showed his true colors & beat the holy living hell out of Bryan, whom was already down from the police assault, with Steph screaming & cheering him on while berating Daniel Bryan the whole time. Triple H dunking Bryan in the ice water with Steph yelling "drown him!" was gold. The chairshot to the post was vicious. The handcuffed Pedigree to end it all. Great, great stuff. Also Stephanie having the handcuff keys on a necklace the whole time was also awesome. All that on top of the underlying Hardcore Fans Vs. Creative that Loss mentioned too. Just really well executed segment on a good show that built to the end. I liked it a lot. Best beatdown that I have seen since the Nexus debut. You could say that The Authority asserted their authority.

Wow, great idea Loss. I was going to say with WWE firing on all cylinders lately that a live thread would have been fun but I think that's better. I came here to fawn over the show and seeing those links to those threads made me realize I had even forgotten some of the great stuff from this show.

I actually quite like Fandango & think Summer could be a big star. I'm surprised that WWE aren't higher on the pair. Maybe they just got scaled back because Summer had to film for Total Divas, I'm not sure.

The in-ring work in WWE right now might be the best that I've ever seen. That's pretty crazy when I think about it as I'm usually so negative about WWE in general on a week-to-week basis but it's kind of hard to not notice. I mean, I remember growing up watching WWF when they had a roster full of great talent like Rick Rude, Tito Santana, Rick Martel, Ted DiBiase, Randy Savage, etc. But they always put them in the ring with someone like Ultimate Warrior or had jobber squashed. The Attitude Era, despite there being a lot of great talent, was a lot of crash TV & short matches with fuck finishes. Guys like Austin were kind of broken down. HBK even though he was great was kinda always fucked up on something. Flash Forward to today & a guy like Rey Mysterio, Jr. isn't even top 10 on the current roster. It's insane. Goldust is back & doing crazy work. The Shield are incredible. Daniel Bryan is doing crazy things. Cesaro is doing crazy things. NXT is a ton of fun. I dig the Uso brothers & The Wyatt Family. Even Christian Vs. Sheamus on Monday, a feud I couldn't have cared less about, impressed the fuck out of me on Monday with the Street Fight. That was so hard-hitting & brutal. The finish was also sick. Luke Harper might be my favorite guy in all of wrestling right now. Even above anyone in New Japan. Cesaro is up there too. As a fan of quality wrestling from a work perspective, it's a good time to be a WWE fan. I don't think there's a ton of great promos, too many great characters or a lot of good stories but the work is amazing. The Shield Vs. Wyatt Family from Elimination Chamber is the best, most fun match I've seen in a long time. It's going to be exceptionally hard to top that for Match of the Year. At least to me.

What if the winner of the Rumble was guaranteed a spot in the Chamber & the winner of the Chamber got the title shot at Mania?

It would be cool if they actually had the Rumble be random one year. Like, put all the balls in the lottery style wheel. People the wrestlers draw the numbers, have the powers that be decide what number they want to win. Then have the wrestlers shoot draw numbers. Whomever draws, let's say 29, gets to win. Heath Slater for Royal Rumble 2015! I do miss the vignettes showing the wrestlers drawing their numbers. Ted DiBiase paying someone else for their high number drawn was so genius. I think the Rumble still works it just works differently. It used to just be a gimmick match on a gimmick PPV. Now it sort of starts the official Wrestlemania build. So like others before me said, a lot of the intrigue & suspense goes away. It's still fun to see who comes out when to me.

I've gotten myself into trouble with a subject similar to this before. To be blunt, I don't think most fans give a shit about the wrestling (as it pertains to WWE in the United States that is). They care about the stories, the characters & who wins. Everything other than the finish in-between the bells I don't think most fans here (North America) care too much about. By most fans I obviously mean those not reading about wrestling on the internet daily, or re-watching old matches & stuff. They'll pop for big spots, like The People's Elbow or the Worm. They'll get into comebacks & cheer for near-falls. How many current fans even know the moves anymore though? The commentators certainly don't call them. You think a kid in a John Cena shirt or his mom knows what a Belly-to-Belly Suplex or Gorilla Press Slam is? They just wanna see the good guy win. Which sort of ties-in with the other thread that Goodhelmet made about what type of fans there are & how they have changed over the years. Obviously nowadays more people have internet access (and broadband) than those during 1997 did. Plus with the pushing of social media & the WWE Network, times they are a changing, Bob Dylan style. Plus, although the term makes me cringe, I think the definition of a "smark" has also changed. Like was talked about in that thread, anyone that watches RAW might check out WWE.com or read some article that pops up on Google search. That doesn't mean they're buying All Japan comp. tapes & studying catch wrestling though. Hell, I think even the phrase "most fans" is changing. It's just a theory. It's sort of taboo to talk about it on said internet wrestling forums. The average fan is never going to care about a guy like say, William Regal. It's hard to get some fans to watch matches in a vacuum. You ever try to just put on a match for a non-fan & have it draw them in? It is pretty tricky. Especially if they have negative preconceived notions about professional wrestling going into it. If you explain the characters & the story before showing the match, explaining why the wrestlers have a beef with one another, it makes a lot more sense & they're more willing to give it a shot. At least based on my experience. It's the same with other forms of entertainment or sports as well. An NFL game means more if there's something on the line & you care more if a team you favor is directly involved. A boxing match is more entertaining if you're familiar with the boxers & some of their character or history. I know in the late 80's, even when he was in there with a tomato can, I still didn't miss a Tyson fight. Even if he knocked the jabroni out in 30 seconds in the first round when the fight was $50. In that regard, Goldberg in WCW was sort of the pro-wrestling equivalent to Mike Tyson. People just wanted to see him kill dudes quick, fast & in a hurry. UFC kind of blew up in part because of The Ultimate Fighter so fans were more familiar with the new blood that was coming in & some of what they had went through. Not to mention the coaches. There's exceptions to every rule. Angle Vs. Benoit at the Royal Rumble got a standing ovation for a reason. And a crowd will certainly turn on a match pretty harshly if it's visually bad to a painfully obvious degree. I liken us as fans to those in a book club. Some people will read a book & say "yeah, it was pretty good." Others will read that book, think it was pretty good, then want to discuss why they thought it was good & what specifically made it good with other people. Not everyone that reads that book will give it much thought after they finish the book but some will. Once a match is out of sight, it's out of mind for a lot of people. They just go about their day, or get ready for the next match or whatever. Others want to keep talking about that match & break it down. Like we do. But how many people re-watch a regular season Sunday NFL game later on in the week? Or revisit it years later & break it down. There are some but not many. That's how I look at us as fans. Most people aren't going to re-watch old NFL games & I don't think a lot of wrestling fans re-watch stuff they've already seen. It's part of the reason why I was initially skeptical about the WWE Network. Trying to get a current fan of WWE to watch 70's wrestling where they're trading headlocks is like trying to get a kid from the X-Box 360 era to play Atari. I'm sure we've all heard friends say "this sucks" or "this is boring" about one of our favorite matches. The draw of pro-wrestling, I feel, is the raw emotion. You gotta get people to care so that they'll express emotion to the entertainment being portrayed. To do that, you have to draw them in & make them care about the exchanges that are taking place or will take place. That's why wrestling has always been good guy against bad guy. The bad guy has to do stuff that makes the fans hate him & that puts sympathy on the good guy. Then the good guy has to topple the bad guy not just for himself but for the fans. It doesn't really matter how he does it. He just had to do it. It's basic storytelling. The matches themselves even follow the same principle as the stories. There's a beginning, a middle and an end. Each is supposed to elicit a response. The context of each section isn't as important as them just existing. Not everything will resonate the same with everyone, obviously. It's usually the good guy starts out hot & the crowd is into it. Then the bad guy cheats to get the upper hand. So the fans are mad at him & wondering if the good guy can come back from that. Then you have the finish, which continues the story. It doesn't really matter how the good guy starts out hot or how the heel cheats. It matters that the fans start off excited then get upset. That's my thoughts.

Lawler is lucky to be alive. I'm sure he doesn't give a fuck if Vince likes his shirt or not.

I remember reading that Bryan was marrying Brie the day after Wrestlemania. If he's not going to be on the post-'Mania RAW, would they put the title on him? Maybe he can still make the show & get written off TV for his honeymoon? Will Triple H & Stephanie be invited to the wedding so pictures can pop-up on social media & completely kill any kayfabe that is left?

What happened to the thread listing all the wrestlers better than Triple H? I can't find it. Even searching for HHH, Triple H & Hunter. On here or DVDVR. I tried searching via tags too because I know Loss spent a lot of time fixing all of those...I just can't find the thread anymore. Was it deleted/pruned? I think Dylan was the author but I'm not positive about that. Help? EDIT: Thank you, Badlittlekitten

I tweeted about this, of course no one knows my Twitter exists...but after the reported 1,400 tickets sold for TNA Lockdown Sunday, even though they're under the WWE umbrella, would it be hyperbole or an exaggeration to consider NXT the #2 wrestling promotion in the United States? It's certainly not TNA or ROH. In the past, when the talk of TNA would come up, the big hammering point was people would point to their still having TV. Well, thanks to the WWE Network, people have NXT now. I imagine more people would pay $60 for six months of WWE Network than people would pay $44.95 for TNA Lockdown. I sort of look at NXT as its own entity while RAW, Smackdown & Pay-Per-Views are "WWE" to me. If that makes sense.

I feel like Punk says more by saying nothing. His silence is deafening. Him not breaking his silence is what fuels so many people to want to see him & keep chanting his name. At this point, he's a burning effigy that represents change in WWE. If he speaks or comes back, all of that goes out the window & was sort of in vain. The fire burns out. Punk was the catalyst but it's bigger than him now. His "walking away" is seen, for whatever reason, as dissatisfaction with the direction of WWE. The proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Punk walking away now represents not wanting to see John Cena on top anymore. It represents not wanting to see Triple H "bury" people. It represents not wanting to see Batista Vs. Orton. It represents wanting to see Daniel Bryan get his moment. To see new figures, such as Wyatts, Shield, Cesaro & Ziggler get their moment in the sun. I'm not sure exactly when that happened but that's what it feels like. Of course, all of those guys are getting their time to shine. They were getting it regardless of if Punk left or not. Bray Wyatt was getting a big push, that's why he beat Bryan at the Rumble. The Shield have been booked strong since their debut. Cesaro is a workhorse & now because of the Giant Swing, he has the crowd behind him. WWE, to their credit, have used this all as a storyline, to put heat on feuds like Daniel Bryan Vs. Triple H. The Authority now represents WWE Brass while Daniel Bryan represents the fans & change. Before leaving, some would argue that C.M. Punk was damn-near invisible. Phoning in his appearances & just being another face-in-the-crowd. I certainly wasn't personally clamoring to see him on each show. He had fizzled out. So I feel like C.M. Punk is a false idol; a fake martyr. We don't know the reason why he left. None of us do. All we can do is speculate. Speculation has been everything from being hurt/banged up, to being upset over Wrestlemania paydays, to being mad about having to work Triple H at Wrestlemania. We just don't know. Some people say it's hard to get behind a guy that quits his job because of reason X or excuse Y, but really, we don't know why he left because he hasn't said it. And as long as he stays quiet, I think he keeps burning. Him not speaking is what fuels the fans to keep waving the flames. As soon as he comes back, or does a shoot interview, or a podcast or even just Tweets, most of that blaze is squelched. All we really know for sure at this point is that WWE has proven they don't need C.M. Punk.