JerryvonKramer

On the one hand, I wasn't expecting OJ to be as high on the Garvin title win as some of the rest of us. On the other, I'm pleased to see him giving that 85 studio match the love it deserves, one of my all-time faves.

This is why I mentioned exploiting the death of Gino to get the blindness angle over with Adams.

Problem with Jake for me is that he's been talked up for years as having great psychology and I just don't see it.

Early 90s WCW tapes were pretty rare in the UK. I had a little look for Superbrawl earlier and there are currently none listed. Will have to see what happens.

So my father finally got me to take my VHS collection back with me, it is destined for eBay. There are some upsetting things ... Cases for several shows missing and Royal Rumble 91 is missing entirely! I think maybe there is a whole case missing. But here it is as a memory. I wonder if anyone is still buying VHS tapes on eBay ...

That seems kind of low on the list of scummy things Fritz pulled. Why don't you out-Fritz me then?

The thing with Fritz trying to get that Chris Adams blinding angle over as he was dealing with the death of Gino Hernandez.

I know of a WCW podcast on which they have a much more positive view of Garvin.

There's a photo of Hansen wrestling Flair in a recent Fighting Spirit mag, so it definitely happened. Suspect it was the Carolinas though. According to wrestlingdata their singles encounters happened in Georgia, including two shows at the Omni in 82 and 84 for the NWA title Would be fun to see Hansen do a gorilla press slam.

84-87 is definitely more rough around the edges than 88-92 which is what I associate with Vince's "vision" for what his product should be. You can see the difference in microcosm just be looking at Hogan himself. He's so much more raw and organic during the 84-87 stuff. By 88, he becomes very homogenised. Always in yellow and red. Much more formulaic in the matches and pared down in the move set. From 1988, you see the way heels are brought in with the skits and ready-made characters and gimmicks. Everything is a lot more carefully man-managed. 84-87 has a lot more Vince Sr hangover stuff, and as well as ad-libbed stuff like the Piper's Pits, and stuff that just goes nowhere like the TNT skits, and so on. It's something Kelly and I have discussed in the past.

On the Wizard, I'm not sure about how much Vince Sr or anyone knew that he was ill since he managed Slaughter and Masked Superstar right upto when he died. I have noticed a period in the results from March 1983 where Grand Wizard seems curiously missing from shows, and I wonder if he was having time off then. He was managing Superstar Graham, but wasn't even making TV tapings that month according to Graham's results. He is mentioned on March 20th show. He's back on the TV for this Championship Wrestling show, which I really want to watch: 4/9/83 - featured the Grand Wizard providing guest commentary. Anyway, at least for a little spell, it looks like Wizard was working with a slightly reduced load, but then he gets Slaughter and Masked Superstar and he's back to normal so to speak up to his death. ------ As for life beyond Backlund, I have a vague plan of continuing doing MSG, Spectrum and Boston shows in 84 and 85 since they seemed to have existed in their own universe. And that universe was much closer to the old Vince Sr world.

Think he means the comment on the Grand Lizard.

The truth is that we're all running scared from Aubrey Sitterson, and that's a straight shoot.

http://placetobenation.com/titans-of-wrestling-57-wwf-june-to-july-1982/ The Titans reunite to see in the New Year and watch some WWF from the summer of 1982. On the docket: 06-05 BOB BACKLUND vs JIMMY SNUKA WWF TITLE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 06-82 STRONGBOWS PROMO WWF TV 06-05 STRONGBOWS vs ADONIS/VENTURA MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 06-82 BLACKJACK MULLIGAN, ANDRE THE GIANT PROMO S WWF TV 06-05 ANDRE THE GIANT vs BLACKJACK MULLIGAN MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 06-12 BUDDY ROSE vs BARRY HART WWF TV 06-82 LOU ALBANO/JIMMY SNUKA PROMO WWF TV 06-28 BOB BACKLUND vs JIMMY SNUKA WWF TITLE/CAGE MATCH MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 06-28 FUJI/SAITO vs STRONGBOWS TAG TITLE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 07-82 GCW: BACKLUND/FLAIR PROMOS AUDIO NOT IN SYNC GEORGIA CHAMP. WRESTLING 07-17 PEDRO MORALES vs MR SAITO WWF TV 07-24 FUJI/SAITO vs STRONGBOWS TAG TITLE WWF TV 07-31 FUJI/SAITO vs STRONGBOWS TAG TITLE PHILADELPHIA SPECTRUM Highlights include: - Enter Jules Strongbow ... (and did he get paid more that Johnny Rodz?) - Ideas for Ivan Putski's Polish gimmick - The strange and sinister domestic life of The Fabulous Moolah - Ric Flair! Gordon Solie! Our boy Backlund heads down south for a promo - Who are your favourite jobbers?

The numbers don't really amount to more than a set of six questions: How good was he in the ring? (On offense, selling and psychology) What intangible qualities such as (charisma, star power, character work etc.) did he bring to the ring? How many great matches did he have? How long was he a top worker? How many different roles and styles was he able to master? How many different guys did he have memorable matches and feuds with? Greatest wrestler ever needs to be impressive in all six. It's not like I've rewritten I.A. Richards's Principles of Criticism. People get caught up on seeing "numbers".

Was mainly thinking it would make the lists easier to make. Maybe use it as a guideline and then think about who is missing and really needs to be there and who looks weakest. It would be a lot easier if four or five guys did this together though, to bounce ideas around etc.

Isn't there an issue though of giving workers points for a style or part of his career that you're not necessarily familiar with? Like, Vader wasn't anything to write home about in Mexico either. If he wasn't over, he doesn't get the point for it. I read that Vader was over in Mexico. I am fine with Vader losing points because I think his score is too high anyway. And if it is too high, these sorts of things are the reason why.

My initial thought is that it would be rationed 15 from US, 10 from Japan and 5 for Rest of the world including Lucha. If it was done as just thirty "world class guys" for each year with no order, I could probably do a set of lists like that. But I'd likely need help after about 1995.

I think the longevity of peak question is ultimately going to have to be cleared up by literally making top 30s for every year. I don't know if I have it in my right now, but it would clear up these sorts of questions. I am happy to lose the +1 for shoot style if he doesn't deserve it. Not something I give a shit about anyway.

So using numbers is silly but ranking a top 100 isn't? Genuine question.

Steve Regal vs. Robbie Brookside (1/8/88???) "Former tag team partners Big Boss Man and Akeem now have to face each other!" Yip, as I said elsewhere, every single time. Fancam, date taken from OJ approximation. If that date is true, this would actually be BEFORE they were tag partners. Regal is on top to start and stretches Brookside's arm. Work is good. He can work the mat with the best of them. Brookside comes back with focus on Regal's left leg. Regal is very vocal in his selling. Sometimes you can tell when a match is going to go long when they start out in two extended holds. Brookside hits a back suplex and a backdrop. Regal comes back with a leg drop and a gutwrench. Snapmare. Abdominal stretch. Regal seems like he's working heel in this match. And he's a lot closer to his WCW self than we've seen so far. You might want to take another look at that date OJ, I'd put this later probably, he seems a lot more seasoned and a little bigger too. I'm guessing this is why Will has it represented around 89? Regal's knees and uppercuts are stiffly worked. His execution of suplexes and throws are all very crisp. This is by far the best he's looked on this early footage. Interesting to see a longer house show match from this time and place too. This is a good match once it gets going but the early work was obviously there to eat time and the finish lacked any sort of excitement. Everything in the middle was solid though with Regal good on both offense and selling. Brookside didn't look half bad either. ***1/2

I started by saying "what is my criteria" and worked from there. I think most of what people have done, including me before, is picked the guys they rate highly and then worked backwards figuring out what their criteria is. That's fine, but it's post-hoc justification. It's also wildly inconsistent from guy to guy. People get very swingy with it, a small thing that bugs someone is used as the reason to drop them from 1-5 to 15 (or whatever). All much too whimsical, for me personally. I thought my own list before the system was whimsical. Whereas if the criteria leads, then you can't really say that there's any inconsistency. I'm not dropping Bret 29 places because he dogged it on house shows or putting Jerry Blackwell in my top 15 because I liked watching him bounce off cages in the AWA. Or whatever. There's still plenty of scope in which my biases will show themselves. My list is still going to be long on US and Janapense guys from 70s and 80s and short on Lucha guys and 00s indie workers.

These four reviews are dedicated to Matt D. One Man Gang vs. Jim Duggan (8/8/86) Good spirited sprint brawl. Good action, but short. One thing I will say, considering Duggan was going over, I didn't think Gang made his size and weight advantage feel like it counted in this match. I mean, he's a big guy, so obviously it's there, but I'm not sure he works particularly effectively to make you feel that size. It could just be that Duggan was such a force of nature that it feels like an even contest, but even so, I saw a Giant Haystacks match yesterday in which I felt he worked the big man vibe a lot better than Gang did here. ** One Man Gang vs. Jim Duggan (1/9/87) A chain match and a longer affair than the last one. This is good blood and guts stuff as you'd expect from both Watts and Houston. Enjoyable juice brawl with a hot crowd. I thought they worked the strip pretty well. Gang did use his weight to stop Duggan from making the four corners, but some of the same criticisms apply. Nonetheless, probably one of the better matches of both guys' career. ***1/2 One Man Gang vs. Brad Armstrong (2/25/85) Armstrong was not a JTTS in Mid-South and he wouldn't be considered one here. Gang dominates early, but Armstrong counters with a hammerlock. Eventually Gang hits a clothesline. Full armdrag and twist by Gang. He's working the arm now. This match has been a lot more technically worked than one might expect. I've always found Armstrong pretty boring and overrated. Gang continues to work this arm. Definition of a rest hold. Clubbing blows on the arm by Gang. I feel like Armstrong needs to create some movement in this match, it's been very static. Another armdrag and twist by Gang. Elbow on the shoulder. Even Boesch is commenting on how it's weird to see Gang actually wrestle like this. Misses a splash in the corner. Armstrong comes back. Texas punches. Forearm from the top. Goes for an atomic drop but crushes his own knee. Standing powerslam by Gang and that's all she wrote. This is an interesting match in that it is not at all worked as you'd expect. Decent if straightforward psychology. Armstrong needed to bring the goods more in a match like this if you ask me. He's the ring general, he needs to make more dynamic stuff happen, but he didn't. Gang for his part was fine, but he's obviously not a technical wrestler so an extended bout of armwork is a weird one for him to go for. Worth watching for interest's sake. I'm not convinced of the idea that Gang was a smart worker though. As for Brad Armstrong, he has seldom impressed me. ** One Man Gang and King Kong Bundy vs. Steve Williams and Jim Duggan (9/23/83) Trivia note, I turned one year old on this day! A lot of beef in that ring. Williams is very young here. No beard. Gang has a very big beard, on the other hand, and him and Duggan get right in each others' faces. Williams seems like more of a fat guy in 1983, not the same build as you expect from Dr Death. It's good in a way that we get to see Gang tag with Bundy here as we can directly compare how both played the big man. Bundy is much more like the immovable object, Gang on the other hand, bumps around and and shows more weakness. But he's not Jerry Blackwell pinballing, so I'm not sure if being so giving comes across well for him. Gang seems very beatable to me, not an imposing monster. He's more comedic and watching some of this you can see why Vince picked him to play Akeem. Bundy takes a lot more to go down. Again, you can see why it was him and not Gang who headlined a Wrestlemania. I sound like I'm dogging Gang. I'm not, just giving a picture of how he worked relative to Bundy. Gang didn't work like a fearsome monster, Bundy did. On the other hand, Gang had a higher workrate than Bundy. As for the match, they go a good 15+ minutes, Gang "plays Uncle Ivan", by which I mean consistently loses advantage for his side. Solid action, they hid Williams's greenness well, and he got a great rub from Duggan. Gang carried the work load on the heel side. Not sure I ever really felt that the babyfaces were in real danger though. I'd have liked a longer heat sequence. ***

Childs, I think for the system to have any purpose I need to stick to what the results give me. Even if it does mean Jumbo ends up #3 on my list, which is looking likely.

I'm not going to rank anyone I don't feel comfortable making a call on.