JerryvonKramer

Wild wild guess but Nick Bockwinkel became a road agent in 1987. I don't even know who else in wrestling would realistically know something like that.

I'm tempted to be won over by this Brain, just so I can put Ted in my Top 10 on the basis of Million Dollar Man skits and justify giving 0 out of 10 to basically all modern era performers for acting / promo skills.

Here you go brain:

In my view, the idea of the list as it stands is not different to ranking top 100 actors and basing that soley on their performances in films. The analogy is not quite perfect, but it's closer in my mind to the Presidential one. It doesn't really matter how Al Pacino's films did in the box office vs. Johnny Depp's, it's just purely based on what they did in the films. In this way, we could also compare across to non-English speaking films with no real issue. And I'd see the criteria as being similar. Marlon Brando, at base, probably a 10/10, but his great performances you can count on one hand (Waterfront, Streetcar, Godfather, Last Tango, ... Now we're reaching). I guess my version of a film actors BIGLAV would be something like: Base talent Iconicness Great Performances Longevity of peak Ability to play a wide variety of different roles Variety of different types of films appeared in Something like that. Hoffman has Pacino beat, say, in the range of different roles and different types of films. Pacino has Hoffman beat for iconicness. How entertaining they are on chat shows promoting the films has zero bearing. How well the films do commercially has zero bearing. I don't see a difference at all. Actors act in films, wrestlers wrestle in matches. In what ways wouldn't this be the same?

Honky was supposed to come in as a face as I recall, and if Demos were meant to be Road Warrirors knock offs, the hard rock was a part of that. Someone might want to do a check though, how many faces of the era had themes. I only really have JYD in mind.

I think the common demoninator with most of those is the Piledriver album. Rude had music built into his act. I'm guessing Race's theme was just generic coronation type music?

1. Chi-town 2. Wrestlewar 3. Clash (which is my order, funnily enough) and 1. Wrestlewar 2. Chi-Town 3. Clash are still left. See I'm the same, have Wrestlewar some ways behind the other two. And I guess I'm just curious about the Wrestlewar love. I made the analogy before that Clash is the classic album, Chi-Town the killer single, and Wrestlewar the greatest hits tour. It's always felt a bit less vital than than the other two for me. Reference.

See I'm the same, have Wrestlewar some ways behind the other two. And I guess I'm just curious about the Wrestlewar love. I made the analogy before that Clash is the classic album, Chi-Town the killer single, and Wrestlewar the greatest hits tour. It's always felt a bit less vital than than the other two for me.

It should be the place for the Flair vs. Steamer comparisons though. I just didn't hear anyone go into specifically why they'd put the other two over Clash.

I think it comes down to faces and heels. The faces had music and heels didn't generally until about 89-90.

See, it's meant to be a conversation starter not ender. In practice all it ever does is shut down discourse, analysis and reasoning. At the very least it should be possible to go into what strokes appeal to what folks.

I have to confess that I don't understand why people put Clash anything but #1, for me it is the best match of all time. I was absolutely mesmerised the first time I saw it. It it has never lost anything on subsequent viewings. Arguments put forth here: https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/where-the-big-boys-play-rewind-ric-flair-vs-ricky-steamboat-clash-6 What are the respective arguments for putting Chi-Town or Wrestlewar ahead of it?

If you watch that finish though, there were some mitigating circumstances, Dory was jawing with the ref and Harley blind-sided him and kicked him in the gut before the suplex. It was a sucker punch. Not only before that Dory had given Harley his trademark butterfly suplex (which was never a finisher). I have seen Harley end other matches with a vertical suplex, but he often puts a delay on it. He also throws all sorts of bombs in his matches that don't result in falls. As did Dory, and various other 70s workers. Not saying your point is entirely untrue, just that it can be overstated sometimes.

We've definitely seen every possible variant of ranking Flair-Steamboat trilogy now. I was 1. Clash, 2. Chi-Town, 3. Wrestlewar Chad was 1. Clash, 2. Wrestlewar, 3. Chi-town I think Tim was 1. Chi-town, 2. Clash, 3. Wrestlewar And now elliott is 1. Wrestlewar, 2. Clash, 3. Chi-town Pretty amazing.

I'd say that of the 70s stuff available on tape, WWWF is the only US territory where we have a lot of the big blow off matches [at MSG generally] as opposed to just the TV.

Master Redman, more Windham hate, have you?

Care to go into why?

This was actually 3 Rumbles ago. He purchesed the 30 spot in 89. Came out #1 in 1990. Dusty and Dustin match in 91. It was a call back, but a call back to him coming out number 1. But also, I think, a nice little night off for Ted after his iron man performance from before, being the sacrificial lamb for Bulldog. Still, would have been nice to see Flair and Ted in there together.

Bruno might be the most difficult guy to quantify. He worked a very rough and ready style. He was a brawler. And he was great at what he did -- so much better than a Crusher or Dick the Bruiser. In terms of crowd connection, overness and aura, he is without equal in my view. I will give him the perfect 10 for intangibles, but if there was an 11, he'd be the only guy to get it, more than Flair, more than Hogan, Dusty, Baba, Inoki, Choshu, Rock or Austin. Something just absolutely magical about the guy. I'm not romanticising either, this is just based on watching footage. But in terms of great matches, I think he might honestly be at a flat zero. Even his very very best stuff is going to struggle to break ***1/2. Difficult to know what to do with him.

That match against Hase is amazing though.

As for my own list, I'm not sure I see any lucha guys outside of Casas and Cota making it, definitely not El Dandy, though this will not be much of a surprise. I probably won't have many from 00s either, outside of Cena and Brock. I keep forgetting that I need to watch some prime Bryan. Childs - have you watched much of Slaughter's 81 heel run? Made me a believer.

With Harley, try: Harley Race vs. Ric Flair (2/28/82) Harley Race vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (4/22/82) Harley Race vs. Kerry Von Erich (6/4/82) If those don't turn you round, nothing will. Owen Hart is someone I only started thinking about the other day. Someone I think who has been a bit under-discussed and I'd love to see more views. I think in terms of his basic skills he was one of the better offensive wrestlers of the 90s and one of the better sellers too. Patterson: MVP of 1979 for me and from what we have before that, he looks every bit the super worker. Chuck in the Slaughter stuff, and it's a case for lower half. Martel: You could try the playlist Steven made for the "Martel: Running with the GOATs" show we did a while back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLS1QYjCSmymiOAj2Fwa3yCzZz34q-36D8&v=Y7L5B1FmdD4 (show here) Garvin: vs. Flair (85 - studio match and 9/25/87) vs. Tully (5/3/86) If that doesn't sell you, nothing will.

August 8th 2013. It was the very first ep of Titans of Wrestling. I gave the match ***1/2 as I recall, and that rating was based on basically everything after the headlock. The first half bored me to tears. However, we have discussed maybe re-doing the first ep because my boys Pete, Kelly, and Johnny were not on. It was just me and Crazy James. Might give a nice pretext for a rewatch.

One of these days, one of you guys is going to have to write a guide for how to dig a 20+ minute headlock. I feel like I'll never get it. Especially one in this case where we know one of the guys is blown up.

My source for Arn Anderson being under the hood was various reviews from different places which I cross checked with Cage Match: http://www.cagematch.net/?id=28&nr=2944