JerryvonKramer

I don't really care, that's my position and it is final. Enjoy the discussion.

I can't imagine a world in which any of those guys are inducted before Arn Anderson and, since that seems to be the case, I will be boycotting HoF discussion this year.

Do you imagine sometimes in lonely moments, Vince puts on a robe and walks around this place looking at all his past glories like Chalres Foster Kane?

That run it's vs. Patterson, Alley fight.

The Blackjack Mulligan story about wanting to punch out Lex Luger but leaving because he feared he'd actually kill him is the GOAT story Flair's ever told. #2 is always him telling the Hunter story about him introducing himself to Race and Race saying Kowalski's "work was the shits." Yep

I liked Austin's suggestion that WWE should bring in AJ Styles.

Austin ep is best ever

I will have a big update next week or so where you'll get a couple of weeks in one go. I am a bit busy with work atm.

There are a number of people who might still make it before final submission. New Japan in general is to come. I hope to complete 80s and 90s highlights before submission. Memphis also. World of Sports top workers also. Lucha not so much. Bryan and AJ Styles also priorities. I think I have really watched a lot of the 70s guys now to know where I stand on those guys. Although, Terry Funk is one or two great matches away from moving up to 3. I do have reasons for all of these placements. Ted is not 14 for example just because he's a personal fave, I do genuinely believe he's one of the very best working heels in U.S. wrestling history, if not the best: bumping, selling, feeding, timing, character work, execution, etc. I genuinely haven't seen many who do that sort of thing better, he's a text book working heel to the same extent Martel and Steamboat are textbook faces. I put a lot of stock in that. With a guy like Cena, I am not predisposed to like him (same is actually true of Dory, Backlund, Shawn, HHH) but too many great performances and matches to ignore. There is a mixture of criteria going on. Baba is there for his psychology, Brock Lesnar is there for sheer fucking kick assery. Mr. Saito is there because I get excited every time his name on a match list. Scott Steiner is there because I've legitimately given at least 6 Steiners tags ****1/2. The Sheik is there because he can generate heat in front of any crowd, including sit-on-their-hands 70s Japanese crowds. Bob Orton Jr. Is there because I fucking love suplexes. Ivan Koloff is there because he is tremendous at working 10 minute TV studio matches against scrubs. Bruno Sammatino is there because I've never seen a babyface connect with a crowd as amazingly as he does. Onita is there because he's a crazy son of a bitch. Wahoo and Garvin are there because I love big chops. It's actually quite difficult to make a list I've realised. So many different reasons and criteria floating around.

If I was forced to submit tonight: 1. Jumbo Tsuruta 2. Ric Flair 3. Stan Hansen 4. Terry Funk 5. Misawa 6. Nick Bockwinkel 7. Kobashi 8. Kawada 9. Tenryu 10. Arn Anderson 11. Jim Breaks 12. Fujinami 13. Billy Robinson 14. Ted DiBiase 15. Rick Martel 16. Ricky Steamboat 17. Bobby Eaton 18. Tully Blanchard 19. Vader 20. Jack Brisco 21. Giant Baba 22. Barry Windham 23. Brock Lesnar 24. Eddie Guerrero 25. Taue 26. Bret Hart 27. Sgt. Slaughter 28. Randy Savage 29. Lord Steven Regal 30. Chris Benoit 31. John Cena 32. Harley Race 33. Bill Dundee 34. Ron Garvin 35. Greg Valentine 36. Yatsu 37. Pat Patterson 38. Jerry Blackwell 39. Ricky Morton 40. Choshu 41. Dory Funk Jr. 42. Rick Rude 43. Mr Saito 44. Wahoo McDaniel 45. Bob Backlund 46. Buddy Rose 47. Brian Pillman 48. Curt Hennig 49. Lex Luger 50. Masa Fuchi 51. Andre the Giant 52. Dick Slater 53. Tommy Rogers 54. Kerry Von Erich 55. Jushin Liger 56. Mocho Cota 57. Daniel Bryan 58. Hulk Hogan 59. Jerry Lawler 60. Larry Zbyszko 61. Bob Orton Jr. 62. Butch Reed 63. Ken Patera 64. The Destroyer 65. Shawn Michaels 66. Steve Austin 67. Dick Murdoch 68. Stan Lane 69. Dustin Rhodes 70. Terry Gordy 71. Sting 72. Chris Jericho 73. Owen Hart 74. Kurt Angle 75. Steve Williams 76. Bruno Sammartino 77. Negro Casas 78. 2 Cold Scorpio 79. Dennis Condrey 80. Chavo Gurrerro 81. Onita 82. Buzz Sawyer 83. Triple H 84. Johnny Saint 85. Magnum TA 86. Michael Hayes 87. The Iron Sheik 88. CM Punk 89. Carlos Colon 90. The Great Muta 91. Kikuchi 92. Ivan Koloff 93. Kevin Von Erich 94. Jose Lothario 95. Bobby Fulton 96. Bobby Heenan 97. Victor Zangiev 98. Ernie Ladd 99. Scott Steiner 100. The Sheik

I have seen a ton of Abby recently. He's just way way too limited imo. I'd have The Sheik above him.

Lack of DiBiase upsetting to me, of course. Dustin rating very high.

I'm really surprised to see Abby in people's lists.

I'm just saying that if there's a dark match then it changes the thinking of the function of the opener. Something like Liger vs. Pillman is more a slap in the face "WELCOME TO THE SHOW IT'S GONNA BE AWESOME". Something like SD Jones vs. Johnny Rodz is more like "Hey, don't worry you haven't missed anything, relax, get a soda, take your seat." And very often the dark match will be doing the job of the latter.

Sek - it all depends on what the opener is doing though. Back in old-school MSG Dennuci vs. Scicluna type matches, people were still arriving. OFTEN on later shows, there was a dark match before the opener, so the opner wasn't the TRUE opener for the live crowd, just for the PPV crowd.

Remember when everyone said they were burnt out for Brock vs. HHH?

Jingus, the story you always hear old-timers tell is how they went out 2nd match and had a GREAT match only for an Eddie Graham, Bill Watts, or whoever to give them a total bollocking afterwards for "doing too much" and upstaging the main event. I've heard countless guys tell that story. Also I've seen so many MSG shows now that it is really really obvious that when it's Dominic Denucci vs. Baron Scicluna plodding around for the first 10 minutes it's because people are getting to their seats, and when it's a fucking shitty Samoans curfew draw in the last 20 minutes it's because people are filing out trying to get to the subway before its too late. Vince Jr had a different philosophy and went with the filler matches in between peaks. Crockett went with a STACKED card that built towards a semi-main followed by a main. I think these things are easy to work out when you watch dozens of cards by the same bookers / promotions.

No I didn't mean that you should have resurrected that, I'm just saying it's a bit of background reading for this topic. This is very topical right now and should be its own thread.

Some related reading: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/19708-booking-philosophies-of-match-sequencing/

Terry Funk vs. Abdullah the Butcher (12/2/80) This is 2/3 falls, and may just be the longest singles Abby match on tape. First fall is all punching. Very surprised that after fifteen minutes, no one has juiced. Second fall has a lot of Funk ramming his fist into Abby's head. And eventually he just kicks him in the head. Abby after getting the shit beat out of him, lifts Terry up on his shoulder and runs him into the post. Chair shot. Abby is bleeding by this point. Third fall, and Terry is monumentally selling his leg injury. He lands on the ref and Abby accidentally gives Joe Higuchi an elbow drop, he's out cold. Andy takes to head butting the injured leg, which looks really weird, but sound psychology. Replacement ref in. Terry dumps the sub ref. That's a DQ. Very long match for Abby to be involved with, but it doesn't lose any heat or energy. This is mainly two guys pounding on each other for thirty minutes straight. But I do think it's about time one of them ate a clean pin in this perpetual feud. The fuck finish and post-match brawl are routine at this point. Still, these Abby matches have been better than you perhaps might expect. ***1/2 Terry Funk and Billy Robinson vs. The Avenger and The Asteroid (10/22/80) The Asteroid was Bill Irwin, The Avenger was Moose Morowski. The team of Funk and Robinson is, of course, unbelievably bad ass. Robinson lays FIP for the first 8 minutes, before getting a hot tag. Funk comes in with the Texas jabs. His arm wrenches and elbows on Asteroid are tremendous, then he tags in Robinson who hits an uppercut, awesome. Piledriver by Robinson, neck breaker. How awesome is Robinson! I'm assuming it's Asteroid in black and Avenger in white, by the way. One of them gives Funk a slam into the corner of the apron. Avenger in, works some basic punches. Terry's selling gets him over as as threat though, before he gives him a back suplex . Asteroid cuts off the tag. Bearhug. This is called double heat ladies and gents. They kind of do a hot tag without doing a hot tag, and Robinson comes in a house of fire, swank neckbreaker, swank backbreaker, Funk in, spinning toehold! Spinning toehold! Give up! Give up! This was a lot of fun, just a super simple well worked southern tag with double heat. Cool to see Funk and Robinson tag up too. ***1/2 Terry Funk vs. The Asteroid (10/29/80) Terry goes up against the dastardly Asteroid now one on one! Ha ha. The Asteroid gets zero crowd reaction, Funk is over like rover. I'd just like to point out here that even as over as Terry was here and against a total nothing like Asteroid, he gave him a lot in this match. Bob Backlund was treating the NWA champ like a jobber in 1980, the contrast couldn't be more marked and it's why Terry Funk is 100 times the babyface that Backlund will ever be. Selling to generate sympathy to generate heat for the comeback. Simple, effective psychology. Puts him away with a butterfly suplex. After the match he takes Asteroid's mask off and puts it on. Ha ha. **1/2 Terry Funk vs. Giant Baba (4/26/81) Funk seems more over even than Baba here in terms of the crowd reaction, he really was a superstar. Baba basically dominates Terry in the early going, piledriver and all. Ten minute mark Funk comes back, Texas jabs. Spinning toehold, Baba has the counter. Terry leg drops Baba's leg and does the spinning toehold again. Baba almost sneaks a pin. Always so wily isn't he. Neckbreaker by Baba. Snapmare. Abdominal stretch. Roly poly. But then Brody and Abby hit the ring and cause mayhem. Dory comes out. Brody chokes Terry with a chain. Baba is laid out in the ring. Brody beats a bloodied up Terry with the chain. Jumbo is out. They give Terry the chain and he smashes Brody with it. Abby flees as Terry legit whips Brody with the chain. Wow, that's some brutal chain stuff. Brody with the chair. Christ Funk is bleeding like crazy here. After Brody goes, Terry gets the ring bell and sits in the middle of the ring smashing it like a madman. Nuts. I'd recommend people watch this one for the insane post match. The whipping of Brody with the chain was oh my. You can spot a young Haku as one of the young boys. *** Terry Funk and Ashura Hara vs. Stan Hansen and Ron Bass (8/26/82) It's never occurred to me before by Bass makes PERFECT sense as a Hansen partner. The beat the crap out of Hara to start. Wonder where Dory was. Three out of four people in this match have moustaches. Awesome. Ron Bass hits a nice suplex on Hara. Some really heated stuff in this match, interactions between Funk and Hansen were great and Bass looked better than I thought he would. Really solid match. ***1/2 Terry Funk vs. Crusher Blackwell (9/2/82) Most of you instant gratification types bee-lined to this. Eat your sprouts I say. I've earned it. Blackwell really was a very fat man wasn't he. Mostly this has Blackwell dominating Funk, who did work from underneath a lot as babyface. But then he hits a back suplex and three elbow drops as a HOPE spot! Blackwell busts out his own jabs and they go blow for blow. Blackwell seems to have colour. Spinning toehold! Blackwell gets to the ropes. Misses a splash which gives Terry the win. Super fun match! ***3/4 Terry Funk and Giant Baba vs. Stan Hansen and Crusher Blackwell (9/8/82) Once again Hansen vs Funk interactions wild, but even more so here. Not a lot more to add really, this goes 12 minutes and it's a great sprint. Well worth a watch. ***1/2

I remember enjoying gritty cage matches featuring Sheik Adan-Al-Kasey. My main beef with AWA was that faces got too much shine in general.

I think Funk's case is really being enhanced with this extra footage. Seeing him in so many situations on the AJ tours, and he is never less than great.

It really surprised me that this was 1983 and he just looked so different. He's stacked too, looks more like Paul Orndorff than Ron Garvin,

The Ronnie Garvin in this match bears virtually no relation to the one I know.

Loss, I think one of the big differences with other companies is that the corporate spokespeople are not on-air heel authority figures the audience has been taught to dislike for the past ... ooh 17 years.