JerryvonKramer

http://www.infinitecore.ca/superstar/index.php?threadid=83023 Anyone know how many of those matches have made tape? Flair / Martel vs. Choshu and Yatsu sounds interesting. Were the Flair vs. Luger matches from 86 any good? There are Flair vs. Garvin matches from Portland

I've been thinking about this for a while and couldn't quite work out how to articulate what I want to say on it. Most of us here find two workers -- Terry Funk and Stan Hansen -- to be quite irresistible. They have one thing in common: they are both workers who toe that line of craziness, violence and unpredictability that leaves even the most hardened of hardcore fan with that very slight element of doubt that what they are doing might be a shoot. You're never sure with either Funk or Hansen what exactly is "in the script", because you know that a lot of what they are doing is ad hoc. My question is ... does this give these two workers an unfair edge when we're thinking about them over ones who have, for example, more cerebral characters? My good friend Johnny said it once about Arn Anderson, that you knew he was a "thinking man's" wrestler because he pointed to his head. But watch two dozen Arn matches and there's only so many times he can go to that same well. Watch two dozen Terry Funk matches and you can be sure that he'll be doing some different crazy shit in each of them, that's the nature of his character. The nature of Arn's character gives less scope for variety. Who suffers most from this sort of thing? It's guys like Ricky Steamboat with quite squeaky-clean bland babyface characters. As we've seen the stock in guys like Funk and Hansen rise, so stock in guys like Steamboat has fallen. Is this because of the nature of the characters? Let me know what you think on this? There may be more to say. It's something I've been quietly thinking on for about 18 months, but struggled to put into words.

As we've mentioned following the Meltzers on recent editions of WTBBP, they tried Scott in a singles push in early 1991 in WCW and it failed because he was too green for the spot AND he requested to work more tags. They might have known that by the time of the Clash and that's possibly why Flair is so dominant in that match.

You're willingly watching ... TNA?

I think maybe 40% of my Orton hatred derives from the Viper bit.

I loved the fact Money Inc got the nod here. However, were Arn and Eaton really the top heel team in WCW? It should be Money Inc vs. Doc and Gordy no? Watts had a major hardon for those two and they dominated the tag ranks for the first half of the year. I'd still give it to Money Inc, because Doc and Gordy were crazy boring in that run for my money. I think WCW should get another point in a Sid vs. Vader "best monster" category.

They were planning that as far back as 1988?

Two more picks for this thread: Luger in 1990 - WCW went with Sting, they should have gone with Luger. Better look, better worker, better on the mic. In my watching Luger has dicked all over Sting from 88 to 91 so far. Hogan in 1981 WWF - Backlund was still champ and no matter how much we might like some of his matches, he was dogshit boring on the mic. Hogan was right there and getting more and more charismatic. Still a heel but he could have been a bigger star than he was if promoted the right way. Vince Sr was wedded to his generic booking formula so the WWF didn't really have any fixed "top heel" at the time, it's come in 3 shots with the champ and out. Hogan, though, also worked a program with Andre and stuck around quite a long time compared to some other heels. They could have held onto him. Everyone talks about Verne losing Hogan to Vince Jr., but what about Vince Sr losing Hogan to Verne?

The problem is, I don't really see Brody headlining in the WWF early 90s environment either ... just not Vince enough. It was always going to be Sid or Luger getting the pushes. Then the change in direction with Bret and Shawn.

Christ, do it. I'd love to see you fantasy book Doink vs. Bezerker to headline Wrestlemania 9. I think, personally, that Matt has confused "good worker" with "potential to be The Man" here and lost all perspective.

Ha ha. It doesn't really change much though, it's a ridiculous suggestion. The most Bezerker might have done is headline an MSG house show with Hogan or something like that, but top heel for the promotion? Yeah, let's go with Doink as company ace while we're at it.

Matt, with respect, I find that idea completely laughable. The Bezerker is your top pick? Really?

See, Brad's another one who I think was exactly where he should have been in the lower midcard.

Brian - I'm with you. Thing for me is that he's just so artificial in everything he does. Possibly the least authentic wrestler of all time.

Randy Orton is one of my least favourite wrestlers of all time.

If Steamboat was ever going to be an ace, it would have had to have been roughly in that same period Backlund was. 78-83. ARGUABLY he was ace for Mid-Atlantic during that time, but it's difficult because there's the Flair factor and it's hard to say that anyone but Flair was the ace in Mid-Atlantic. But Flair was more often than not a heel and more often than not drew against Steamboat.

"Not far from" means number 2 guy. Speaking of which, I don't see anyone pimping Steamboat for this thread and he had a better look than Dustin, was arguably better in the ring than Dustin and in periods was more over with the crowd than Dustin. Note, I'm not knocking Dustin with this, or trying to talk up Sting, I'm just talking about realistic aces. I don't see Dustin as one. I don't see Scott Hall as one.

Scott Hall could never be THE guy. He was about right on the card. Sting was a lot more over than Dustin, which helped his promos.

I still don't get why the Tito vs. Martel feud didn't get a proper blow off. Could have made Tito a bigger star in the eyes of some (even though it was Martel getting the push).

Thought there were two pleasant surprises on the match listing: Steel Cage Match for the World Heavyweight Championship: Ronnie Garvin vs. Ric Flair. Starrcade -- November 26, 1987. Hopefully this will help more people come around on this match, although it would have been nice for them to include the earlier match when Garvin wins the belt. United States Championship Match: Lex Luger vs. Brian Pillman. Halloween Havoc -- October 28, 1989 This is a real "sleeper" match and I'm surprised to see it included. I would have probably picked some different matches from those they picked. It's also funny how none of WCW's "greatest matches" ever took place on TV or on a Clash.

Well in fairness, Luger did technically headline Wrestlemania in 1994. But think about why Sting and him were "washed out". Sting because Hogan came into WCW and took his spot, Luger because they tried to push him as the second coming of Hulk Hogan in WWF and gave him a shitty countout win at Summerslam 93 which cut his balls off. WWF went with Bret as a new kind of champion / throwback to Backlund. WCW went with Hogan. In neither case is Dustin really fitting the mould, and he's not a guy who had so much charisma or X factor that he'd break the mould either, especially not in his WCW incarnation. I think Dustin's push and run were about right.

Because between 1984 and 1994 the wrestling landscape had changed completely.

"What should he have looked like?" Just being realistic.

I don't agree with Dustin almost purely because of his look.

His best match period was probably with Ole vs. Rock n Roll Express at Starrcade 86.