JerryvonKramer

I absolutely loved that match back in the day and again when I saw it around 2006. I'm set to watch it again in the next few motnhs so will be interested to see if it holds up. I have a suspicion that I'm still going to love it. Bring on those high spots!

I can only read their names in Gary Michael Capetta's voice.

http://placetobenation.com/titans-of-wrestling-25-wwf-at-msg-december-1980/ The Fab Four are back together once again to return to New York and wrap up 1980 for this MSG card from December 29th: TONY GAREA/RICK MARTEL vs MOONDOGS TAG TITLE BOB BACKLUND vs KILLER KHAN WWF TITLE ANTONIO INOKI vs BOBBY DUNCUM KEN PATERA vs PAT PATTERSON On this show: - Parv is back - Bios for The Moondogs and Killer Khan - Kal-tum Leap - Good riddance to Antonio Inoki - And Johnny has a special announcement The PWO-PTBN Podcast Network features great shows you can find right here at Place to Be Nation. By subscribing on iTunes or SoundCloud, you’ll have access to new episodes, bonus content, as well as a complete archive of: Where the Big Boys Play, Titans of Wrestling, Pro-Wrestling Super-Show, Good Will Wrestling, and Wrestling With the Past.

This

Okay, I went all the way back to WTTBP #9 to transcribe the review. Here's what we said: Chad: Right out of the gate, they really worked the cage. A couple of teases of Blanchard going in. That was the thing I really liked the best was, Blanchard going into the cage first and blocks it before sending Magnum in. So it really builds up to the moment of Tully going into the cage, and then it finally happens. Parv: This is a real fight isn't it. These two guys are all over each other right from the very start and this is as hate-fueled and as brutal as you'd expect it to be really. Just awesome stuff. Brian: They legitimately look like they hate each other. Chad: Yeah, really hardly any other match I can think of ... the thing that always gets me about this match is the escalation of hate. At the bell, they obviously don't like each other, but throughout the match you really just feel the intensity and the hatred grow. And, of course, with the finish which is pretty much epic ... Parv: I can't help but wonder like ... Tully Blanchard in real life never had a relationship with Baby Doll right? I mean, they weren't actually going out or anything right? Chad: Well ... I don't think officially, but you hear a lot of stuff. Parv: Because if they weren't, this is one of the best acting jobs ... he's very believable ... You get the impression he's legitimately pissed off. [some stuff about how great Baby Doll was in this angle] Parv: So the microphone plays a big part in this match, which I guess is one of the novelties of an "I Quit" match. So there's a big part of this where one guy is saying "SAY IT!" and the other guy is saying "NOOOoo!", so the whole premise of this is that one of them has to say "I Quit" into the mic. Brian: The microphone was a big part of this, but it's not so much what they are saying but how they are saying it. It's an 80s mic, so it's got that sorta muffled sound, and that added so much to this. You can hear them breathing heavily and feel their pain. Chad: It didn't seem cartoonish either. I mean, I know in the Bret Hart vs Bob Backlund Wrestlemania "I Quit" match, there's a couple of instances there where it feels really cartoonish them yelling "Nooo", but here it really felt like a battle. Parv: One of the things I was going to say is that the humilation of having to say "I Quit" in front of an audience really seems ... I don't want to get too deep here ... but it really seems to get down to something primal. Like, I guess you'd call it the masculine ego or something ... This isn't just personal, this is their manhood, their pride, everything at stake here. Which is why they don't want to say "I Quit". And it's very rare for a wrestling match to get at that primal level. Would you agree with that? Chad: Absolutely. I mean at the end of the match you do feel a sense of humilation for Tully. It's amazing that you kind of feel embarrassed for him. It's incredible, can't throw enough adjectives. --------- Also from WTBBP #45, the end-of-80s awards: Chad: I don't think it's much of a surprise if you've listened to this show what our top two matches would be. I think maybe the order would be in jeopardy, but we both had the same number 2 and same number 1. Parv: So number 2, and this is a match, Chad, where when you said "it would be number 1 in AWA or All Japan or whatever", this is a match that I'd say is way up there for all-time matches for me, and that's Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanachard, "I Quit", Starrcade 85. What an incredible match. Chad: This I'd probably say would be number 1 even on All Japan. Great match, hatred, emotions; for me this is a match where you get emotions that you don't see conjured up that much in wrestling. There's an amazing sense of humilation that you see in Tully's eyes as he quits. He's just this despicable man that even still won't just accept the loss, and Magnum defiantly leaving the cage as he tosses the belt over the shoulder walking tall. It's one of the best ... bringing somebody out to the wood shed and giving them what they deserve. This type of match where you knew both of them wouldn't be the same coming out of this match as they were going in and it's just a great culmination to a great rivalry. Parv: I don't want to repeat myself too much, but to me this is one of the few instances where a match transcends the confines of wrestling. It's about more than just winning and losing, it's about manhood, it's about the male ego ... just fantastic. ----------------- I guess sometimes certain things just don't click with certain people. I mean my entrants to this thread are all the recent WM epics. Undertaker vs. HBK, Flair vs. HBK -- those "staged epics" full of false finishes and choreographed emotion just don't speak to me on any level at all. I'm sure there are people here who think they are among the best matches of all time, so I guess it's what you like. To me though, Magnum vs. Tully is another level.

How about Too Cool and Chyna beating the Radicalz at Wrestlemania 2000? At the same event, I also didn't see HHH coming out of that fatal-four-way as champ at the time, seemed like The Rock would be the winner.

I prefer Butch Reed to Ron Simmons and, in turn, Farooq to Bradshaw. I prefer 2 Cold Scorpio to Marcus Alexander Bagwell.

I haven't rewatched it, but if someone made me watch Valentine vs. Backlund hour-long match from 79 again, I'd probably top myself.

Flair vs. Vader is an all-time classic that made me tear up. My pick for this thread would probably be some of the DiBiase vs. Savage matches from 1988, I seem to be a lot higher on them than most people. Think those two had tremendous chemistry. Seemingly, I'm the only person in the world who likes Flair vs. Scott Steiner from Clash 14 as well.

Legit shock about the number of people saying Magnum vs. Tully. If I have time later I might type up the review by Chad and myself of it. I think it's one of a very very small number of matches that transcend wrestling, that is about more than just wrestling, that digs right down and asks questions about what it is to be a man. Never thought I'd see people bring it up in this thread.

His best role is "slightly grumpy member of Legends of Wrestling panel".

And, ironically, Jerry Stubbs didn't have that great a body.

I was sure there was a Butch Reed thread, but I can't find it. If there is one, apologies. Anyway, you can discuss Reed generally here. But it only just occurred to me: whatever happened to him after WCW? How come Reed never got another big run anywhere? USWA in 92. Then ... nothing in 93? Then ... Global in 94? Then, that's it? Really? What happened to him?

Oh no! He didn't. Sorry, I just assumed he had for some reason! Whoops.

When you look at things like the cards for Wrestlemania 6 or 7 or Summerslam 89 or 92, it is legit shocking how many of the people are dead. Kerry von Erich, Dino Bravo, British Bulldog, Randy Savage, Rick Rude, Curt Hennig, Boss Man, Earthquake, Road Warrior Hawk, Hercules, One Man Gang, and now Warrior. Some events where almost half of the entire card died before they reached their 55th birthday.

Yes, definitely. A lot of Warrior fans in the UK, I remember him being on lots of merch too. I was in the car earlier and it made the mainstream news here on the radio bulletin, which is something.

Just timing of when his peak was Childs.

I guess the point was a bit more nuanced than that. Bruno's style of ace was that he'd just fucking deck heels for breakfast. You wouldn't describe Bruno as "plucky", you'd describe him as ... I, dunno, a dignified beast. A gentleman who just might happen to kick your head in if you cross him. I'm pretty sure that's what Dylan had in mind when he said that "Bryan couldn't play Bruno". The narrative arch of a Bruno match is "don't fuck with Bruno". Hogan's style of ace was all about the superman comebacks. He was booked "strong" in terms of wins and losses, but WITHIN matches Hogan would sell a lot for opponents. As we all know. The Hogan formula has been replicated time and again in WWE main events, it's the most basic wrestling formula (shine - heat - comeback). The narrative arch of a Hogan match is "no matter the odds, Hogan will overcome them and win". Backlund didn't work that formula. Not at all. Backlund matches are a totally different ball game, and that's really what I had in mind when I made this thread. The narrative arch of a Backlund match is "Backlund is the best wrestler around and he's the champ for a reason". So this is as much about how Bryan could be booked to work individual matches as it is about character or week-to-week booking.

With him not appearing at all, it seemed like a real passing of the torch to Hunter and Steph in terms of being the real authority on screen. I'm wondering if he's finally channeling Vince Sr in basically not appearing on screen anymore.

Can someone answer me this please? Where's Vince? His absence from WM30 was really conspicuous.

I agree with Dylan. I think that should actually be his last match period. He actually reminded me of a late career Dick the Bruiser or Crusher or someone like that. Time to go out. The way I read his reaction after it was "yes, that's me, I can't do this anymore". And, while sad, I think in years to come it will come to seem more and more profound. Especially if we don't see him again till Hall of Fame. The only thing I don't really get is that Brock didn't seem to get THAT much of a rub from it. I wasn't buying the idea that this makes Heyman the GOAT manager now that they were pushing on commentary either.

Really enjoyed this show. I also enjoyed my boy Pete repping for Bruno early on and I liked his Wrestling vs. Sports Entertainment point. Seems like I was higher on Wyatt vs. Cena and Brock vs. Taker than most people. I'm interested to see some more thoughts from Dylan on Wyatt / Cena -- I left my review in the main WM30 thread. Oh and since WHEN has being inebriated stopped Johnny Sorrow making it to the air!

Legit shocking.

Listening to the WM preview show and Dylan brought up how they can't keep doing the whole underdog schtick forever with Bryan. So the question becomes about how to book him as champ. Some hot faces historically have lost their fizzle when the chase is over. Dusty, for example, never really had a run with the title. Sting only ever excelled as the plucky underdog challenger, and despite crowds that were very hot for him failed spectacularly when he was given the strap and made the company ace. Ultimate Warrior likewise, fizzled. Dylan mentioned how they can't really book him like he's Bruno Sammartino, because of his size. But I wonder ... why can't they book him like Bob Backlund? For those unfamilar with how Backlund tended to be booked: he was plucky, courageous, never-say-die, etc., but booked STRONG. He'd work on top a lot. Backlund wasn't really an underdog despite being a goofy-looking kind of everyman. Looking at Bryan's moveset, his look, his TYPE of charisma, and the aggressive way he works, my thought is that he could be a Backlund for the mid-2010s. What would this involve in practice? Well, lots of fairly dominant wins for him, occasionally punctuated by count out or DQ losses instigated by heel shenanigans. Is there any reason why in the current product he couldn't be booked a little bit like this? Example: Week 1: title defense vs. Mark Henry. Goes over strong. Week 2: title defense vs. Booker T. Goes over strong. Week 3: title defense vs. Big Show. Count out finish. Week 4: title defense rematch vs. Big Show. Goes over strong. Week 5: title defense vs. Great Khali. Goes over strong. Week 6: title defense vs. Kane. Goes over strong. etc. etc. until Major PPV: title defense vs. Brock Lesnar. Epic struggle. Goes over clean. rinse repeat for 6 years.

The Martel vs. Rose match that everyone went ga-ga over a few months back.