JerryvonKramer

Re: future 80s set talk. I honestly can't see how the JCP / NWA set won't be the "peak" set. Just from the stuff Chad and I have seen watching the big shows and cherry picking TV, the sheer amount of quality there is staggering. Once you factor in hidden gems that might crop up, 80-83 era stuff that we haven't really looked at, hard to see how it won't top all the others. Rose / Somers vs. Hall / Hennig Extended shine sequence left me cold. Crowd seem bored by it, which doesn't help. I'm not digging this arm work at all. I spot a guy in the front row wearing a white "wifebeater" vest with a long blonde moustache and long blonde hair. He has a strangely effeminette build. Awesome 80s fan. Scott Hall flatout sucked in 1986. Terrible finish. TERRIBLE FINISH. I wasn't into this. D

Rotunda vs. Somers After the early headlock, things pick up with a big Somers bump to the outside. Rotunda hits a big European uppercut. Back to the headlock. Big back suplex to get out of it from Somers. "Stomach breaker". Somers has been really good in this match so far. In the absence of Rose he's working the crowd pretty well too. Rotunda wraps the leg around the post with anger. And he's got colour. HIGH backdrop. Rotunda is fired up and pissed off. Shit, Rotunda is bringing it here! He works a little bit like this in the feud with The Steiner Brothers in 1989. Really good match. A- This is turning out to be a great disc.

For all the shit Will talks about him, I really don't think Rotunda is Steve Regal-level bad. He's boring a lot of the time sure, but not that bad, and does have a good match in him when he's on. Rotunda / Hennig vs. Zybysko / Mr. Go Mr. Go is someone I've never heard of or seen before. Quite possibly the shittest name in wrestling history. What the fuck? "Mr. Go"? Does he give you £200 when you walk past him? Rotunda seems to have gone to the gym since when last we saw him. A lot of the crowd have decided to come disguised as chairs this evening. Zybysko getting stuck in the ropes as Hennig kicks him in the stomach was a pretty great spot. I've enjoyed a lot of what I've seen of Larry Z on this set so far. Seems odd to say it, but he kind of feels like Bockwinkel Jr. This was good fun. Mr. Go looked good too. B-

Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Jesse Hernandez & Leon White So of all the guys in the AWA, Leon White turns to Jesse Hernandez as a partner? Seeing White and Rose close up and the size difference is not that big. Some AWESOME fans in the front row there. Ha ha ha ha. Very random thought: Doug Somers would make a tremendous zombie in a zombie move. He has a very zombie look to him. He has a zombie build. White looks a bit awkward at times, still obviously green. Rose does his best to make him look great though. Don't think Somers's punches on Hernandez look particularly effective. Seemed to do a good job of getting both Rose/Somers and White over though. Crowd reacted well. C-

Genuinely laughed out loud at KrisZ breaking down varieties of 80s Minnesotta scumbags. Hansen vs. Bockwinkel Another "dream match" scenario for me. Bock was looking SEXY in 1986. Nice tan Nick. Very cool match up with Bock not afraid to bring it vs the big bruiser. Big slugfest post-match too. I liked that Bock was kept strong throughout this when it might easily have been more one-sided given 1. that Hansen basically destroyed Hennig and 2. we saw Bock give Hennig a lot earlier. Would be pushing higher if it had gone longer and had a better finish. A- Note to self: probably put Race / Martel higher despite the equal ratings.

Race vs. Martel Harley Race in 1986, in AWA. Holy randomness Batman. Seems like there are quite a few guys who had real short stints or one-off appearances in AWA in 86 before heading to WWF, but Race has got to be the most random of them so far. I like the pace at which they are working this. Back and forth with big bombs from both guys. Martel is fantastic laying in the punches and strikes. I like the big stadium feel of this and it plays well to both guys styles. Martel works so "big". He doesn't just miss an elbow drop, he REALLY misses an album drop. You couldn't miss the fact he missed an elbow in row Z. And there are people sitting way up there in the God seats. Neckbreaker by Race, back suplex by Martel. Massive bump over the top by Race to outside. Don't know what anyone else thinks, but I am digging this. What's there not to like here? Martel's firing up. Gutwrench suplex! Martel going after the leg with the big ROW Z ELBOW DROPS. Come on, this is excellent stuff. Watching this Martel is reminding me of Ricky Steamboat quite a lot. They way he works isn't a million miles away from Steamboat. Ok, you can expect that finish, but I really enjoyed this. It wasn't exactly big on psychology, but I really enjoyed this alot. Lots of action, awesome selling, cool bombs. Great and should finish reasonably high. A-

Here's another time he does it (random), where it doesn't look quite as bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlhZITvDiqk...tailpage#t=261s There the setup is him actually choking the guy on the rope and he's still sort of gagging as he's coming over for the legdrop. Still not brilliant, but much better than in the first example.

Here you go, pretty good example of what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...m9VS43Hqw#t=56s He's called it a "Rope Hung Running Legdrop" there. Notice how the guy actually has to get into position to take the move. Happens in so many Bossman matches. I think it's kayfabe-breaking in how bad it looks.

Hey now, my example was Bossman. I just mentioned Rey in passing. My main point with those spots is that they are "unnatural" positions of proneness. You only EVER see guys in those positions before taking the move. I don't know what the solution would be: encourage guys to hang over the rope at other, more incidental, times in other matches? A big ask, but it would make the spots less glaring. To go back to my Bossman example, the move in question is: The leapfrog body guillotine to an opponent draped over the middle rope I've mentioned before that both Ivan Koloff and Mad Dog Vachon also used to do that spot and somehow it never comes across as contrived as when Bossman does it. I think X-Pac did a variation on it too and I don't recall his version being as glaring either.

Phil Schneider might just be the ultimate contrarian. Within 10 minutes on this show, he's already said that he thinks Shawn Michaels is a "poor man's Robert Gibson" and that Gibson was a "much better worker" than Tommy Rogers. I consider these views to be controversial in the extreme. Rose/ Somers vs. The Midnight Rockers More great schtick stuff from Rose at the start of this. This felt more like scene setting more than anything else, but it wasn't bad scene setting. I like the dynamic between the two teams so far. I also like how Rose is clearly positioned as the leader of that team. Sherri is HIS valet. Somers seems to take his cues from Rose. Michaels and Jannetty seem to focus on him as the "big bad". I quite like that. C+

I figured that out later on Johnny. For a while I thought you were talking figuratively as in "the match I saw" = "the way I remember this". I should explain that I write my comments in quite a haphazard way, the first sentence and last sentence might be written 20 minutes apart. I don't do any editing to try to make myself look more in line with other people either: so if I think something is boring or great or whatever at that moment, and everyone else thinks something else, it stays that way as a snapshot genuine reaction. Would do my Disc 6 rankings but DVDR is still down and has my ratings for some of the matches. Every time I want to do something AWA related, DVDR seems to go down.

Windham and Rotunda (US Express?) vs. The Fabulous Ones Hearing Rotunda's whiny, nerdy voice as a face feels wrong to me. He's in much worse shape here than during his Varsity Club days too. This match just felt kinda there and completely dead crowd didn't help. Work is solid but unmemorable. The definition of middling. Quite a loud pop for the pin though. C

Rose / Somers / Zybysko vs. Rotunda / Snuka / Pardee. First look at Rose and Somers here. I'll admit that I have no clue who Pardee is, never heard of him. Wasn't really expecting to see Rotunda on this set either. The face side is really RANDOM. Rose couldn't look anything less like a "Playboy" if he tried. Rose's schtick stuff at the start is awesome. Doug Somers looks like Tommy Rich gone wrong. Great little moment as Somers goes to tag Rose and he wants no part of it, so he tags Larry in instead. Crowd is nuts for Snuka. Pardee really quite good during this FIP sequence. Great shots of 80s AWA fans during Rotunda's hot tag. As well as a sly one of Sherri's ass. Very enjoyable, fun match. B

Re: Queen, I don't think they took the commerical nosedive here in the UK that they did in the US in the mid-80s. For me, and most of my friends, however, Queen are the sort of band you discover when you're 14, think are fantastic at that age and then don't listen to or take seriously once you're an adult. They aren't a band you'd typically admit to liking. Bock vs. Col. De Beers Crowd looks very noticeably thin here. Really liking De Beers, he's got that schtick down very well and his work is very solid. Transition from Bock is fantastic with the GREAT viscious forearms as he has the Gagne lock in. Very good back and forth match this. Love the spot where De Beers slams Bock's head on the mat and Bock ends up coming 180 over, then the Harley Race headbutt. Disappointing finish, but this was a lot better than I thought it would be. B

Hansen vs. Leon White Amazing that Johnny Sorrow saw this live, despite his misgivings. White weirdly looks like he has more like "old man saggy" fat than the sort of big beast look that he has as Vader. Slow headlock stuff to start here. Hansen's knee drops on White's temple are insanely brutal. Hansen does enough to keep the headlock from being too dull, but things really pick up when he takes over on offense. Big strikes and great armwork from Hansen. The wristlock looks very painful. Stamping on the wrist! Smashing the fingers on the turnbuckle too. Christ, he's just stamping on the wrist and hand here. This is one of the greatest limbwork segments I've ever seen. MASSIVE lariat. Great match this. This was all Hansen schooling a green White. Should be top 10, possible top 5. A

Hansen vs. Slaughter (3 - bunkhouse) While very solid, this feud has not been delivering at quite the levels I was hoping for. This work is very good, great even, but I'm really looking for stuff in the ****1/2+ range with these two and none of these matches are quite there. This one is not quite as good as the other two. On balance I liked the first one the most. B

Hansen vs. Slaughter (2) Hansen's kicks and knees are just so nasty-looking. The psychology is good here: great focus on the leg by Hansen, great selling of the leg by Sarge. BIG lariat. Slingshot! Cobra clutch! The missed cannon that sees Sarge take a bump to the outside is great. Some great work here, but not top tier on this set for my money. Expect it to finish around #15-20 sort of range. B+

Bock vs. Larry Z Zybysko's wildly OTT bumping was pretty cool. The slam into the post was viscious as hell. Bock has turned up the brutality here and Larry is making him look like a million dollars. Fuck! Bock looks like he's smashing Zybysko's nose in with some of those shots. MASSIVE piledriver! Holy shit. I don't know what to do here, this was short, but how awesome was it! Ummm ... B+, should finish quite highly considering how short it is.

Alright, Sarp in the house! Col. De Beers vs. Buck Zumhofe Not sure what to expect from De Beers and things can only get better for Buck. I liked the Colonel's backbreaker where he held Zumhofe over his knee. De Beers's movements are very deliberate. He looks and moves like a guy from a 1940s cartoon. Nice suplex. De Beers looks really decent here. Very unexpected inzuguri. Not bad at all. C+

I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but moves that require the opponent to be in a prone position that ONLY EVER OCCURS BEFORE THAT MOVE. Example, Bossman's move when the guy is hanging over the bottom rope and he comes over with his leg. When have you ever seen a guy hang over the bottom rope like that other than just before that move? Some of Rey's moves are also of this variety.

The very fact a guy like El-P exists is awesome enough, the fact he's part of this place makes it even more so.

Hansen vs. Slaughter Really been waiting for this one. Expecting some big beefy action here and some epic bumping from Slaughter. Slaughter can dish it out too. Backbreaker, neckbreaker. Big cannon. Big bump to the outside. Cobra clutch on the apron! Submission? Hmmm, something fishy here. This was very good, but not the absolute classic it might have been. B+

Watching Hansen vs. Slaughter with AWA Party Podcast on and Will just said "neither one of these guys would get a break today" "What do you think the trainers would be telling Slaughter today?" That's the sort of thing I had in mind for this thread.

Hansen vs. Hennig So, hold on, Zumhof vs. Regal made the set but the Martel vs. Hansen title switch didn't? Even if it was JIP, surely it was more deserving of a spot than that travesty. Hansen on offense, Hennig selling, what could possibly go wrong here? The answer is nothing. I understand Will's criticism that this is a glorified extended squash. But this is just cool as hell. B

Bock vs. Flair "Dream match" is right. Great watching this with KirsZ on the podcast, he's like a human encyclopedia. For whatever reason, perhaps the fact it was JIP, but I was not tremendously as into this as I thought I'd be. Some nice moments, but ultimately it didn't seem to add up to much. Disappointing. B-