JerryvonKramer

Southside Wrestling, Raw Deal 2 Thursday, 7th March 2013 Well, I have to say that I was really surprised by just how good this show was. There was a packed house there, about 1,000 people I'd say. Very notably a family audience, lots of kids. LOTS of kids. But I think that helped things as I'll explain. The product is very traditional I'd say. Strong face/heel divide. Every guy on the roster made a big effort with the crowd and never forgot they were there. The heels weren't afraid to heel it up, almost all the faces were super over with the kids. I went to that TNA show at Wembley last year and this just blew that away for the simple reason that it was always obvious who was face, who was heel and the crowd always did their bit to cheer and boo. Also, this promotion has some not bad at all production values: there was a big screen projection over the entrance and every wrestler had theme music and a titantron video. That may be standard in the indies now, I don't know, but I was impressed by it. Seemed like they did more to get over each and every guy than they did at that TNA Wembley show, that's for sure. I'll go match-by-match: NATHAN CRUZ v MARK HASKINS The big guest here was Ted DiBiase who was wearing a WWE 2012 tracksuit and literally couldn't look like he cared less about being there. The mic was a bit wonky going off and on, but Ted's kayfabe reason for being there because he'd made "an investment" in Mark Haskins (face). So he was there as a face and wasn't really playing up his gimmick much. We didn't even get a signature laugh from him. His promo was interrupted by "The Shows Stealer" Nathan Cruz. A well-built guy in shades and a feather boa. He wasn't bad on the mic, kept calling DiBiase an old man and wanted to show him that his investment was a waste of money. He was over with the crowd who were booing the shit of him. Eventually Haskins came out and the match started with Ted as Haskins's manager. He didn't really do anything at ringside or ever get involved. But the match itself was decent. It was well worked, with you simple shine - stretch - finish structure. They took it to the matt a few times. It was nowhere near the spotty indy style I was expecting -- if anything I'd say they worked it like an old 80s match. Both guys were technically sound and both worked the crowd well at different times. Solid opener. Only slightly surprising thing is that Cruz went over clean. Post-match there was some stuff involved DiBiase, but he was so not into it that it sort of fell flat. Essentially Cruz got a mic and taunted him, then Ted got on the mic outside the ring and taunted him back while Haskins snuck up behind and kicked him to retain some of his heat. Thought that was a little awkward. MARTIN KIRBY v LOCO IMBECIL So Loco Imbecil was announced from Mexico City and came out in Lucha gear but with a tux pattern on his all-in-one. He was carrying a pink Hello Kitty bag full of jaffa cakes which he was throwing out to the crowd. There was a big "JAFFA CAKES!" chant which made a laugh a good bit (if you don't know what Jaffa Cakes are my US friends, look them up). As Imbecil got into the ring he tripped over the bottom rope and all the kids laughed. For a comedy gimmick, this guy was pretty funny and really OVER. Martin Kirby came out in a dragon mask and proceeded to kick the shit out of Loco. It was basically a squash match. And the second match in a row a heel went over clean. Good enough for what it was. Post-match Kirby complained about the standard of opposition and called Imbecil "El Retardo". THE GOLDEN TONGUE This was a "Piper's Pit" style segment featuring manager "Hollywood" Harvey Dale, who seemed to be managing about half the roster. He was alright but not exactly Bobby Heenan or anything. His guest was "The Future" MK McKinnan -- a peroxide blonde guy -- who was going to be taking on Noam Dar in the main event. Dale did the whole Piper-not-letting-him-speak thing. Noam Dar hit the ring before long, and he has a thick Scottish accent. Crowd was massively getting on his back about it and he soaked up the hate. He's kind of a bit effeminate/camp but with a sort of indie brit-pop thing going on too. I thought he handled that segment pretty well -- he seemed to be getting a lot more genuine heel heat than McKinnen was getting face heat though. EL LIGERO v STIXX Stixx is a big guy with a chain. El Ligero another luchadore, but in a Toro-style mask. He was REALLY over with the kids. I heard one guy behind me shout "WE LOVE YOU". It was a little bit weird for me seeing this level of markdom after the TNA experience. Ligero did a good deal of hand slapping with the kids. Stixx did a good job of sneering at the crowd. There was one guy in the front row who kept on trying to start a "Let's go Stixx" chant, and Stixx went over and told him to shut up. Ligero was probably the most "spotty" worker on the card, a lot of hurricanranas and flippy stuff. Stixx worked standard power wrestler type spots -- hit a sweet scoop powerslam at one point. This was a decent match. But for the THIRD match in a row the heel went over clean. Stixx pinned El Ligero. I was a bit shocked at that, I mean El Ligero was so over with that crowd and he was jobbed out clean. THE PREDATORS v MAX ANGELUS & TOMMY DREAMER So The Predators are Joseph Conners and Paul Malen and they are the current SWE tag champs. Two rough-looking dudes with buzz cuts and tattoos. Like the rest of the roster, they have decent physiques and were over with the crowd. Max Angelus is the current SWE Champ and he got some big "Max Max" chants and did the best he could in hyping up the crowd. Tommy Dreamer was pretty over with them too, got a big pop coming out and there were a fair few old ECW fans in. The Predators kept goading the crowd by saying they wouldn't be able to keep the chanting up and whenever they stopped one of them would shout "There is Silence!" in quite a menacing way. Thought that was quite cool. This was booked as an "extreme rules" match but started out like a classic southern tag match. After a brief shine, The Predators took over and Angelus played FIP. Thought The Predators had some great looking offense. Rough and rugged style but still technically sound, kinda reminded me of a more technically-minded Sheepherders. They cut the ring in half and Dreamer and the ref did all the usual spots. I should take a sentence or two for the ref here. Not sure of his name but he looked like a ginger Art Garfunkel with tufty hair, but he did a REALLY good job all night. During this match he sent Harvey Dale back to the locker room. I wasn't sure why since this was "extreme rules" but there we go. Then once Dream got in, all hell broke loose. The match tumbled outside and we got a wild brawl. Dreamer got a bottle of coke from someone in the front and spat it in both Predators' faces. Then smashed it over one of their heads and coke went everywhere. I was sitting in the front row and got fucking soaked in coke. I'm probably going to have to dry-clean my coat which I'm a bit pissed off about. Thanks Tommy. He then went and got an actual bin full of actual rubbish and smashed it over a Predators' head. Rubbish went everywhere. There was a guy sitting a couple of seat down from me with a crutch and he grabbed that and used it. They then took it up the steps into the crowd at large. All of this was going over very well. There were kids squealing with delight at some of this standard ECW stuff. I was mainly trying to get coke off my jacket. Angelus seemed to disappear during most of this. He was down injured for ages. Eventually he went and got a trolley full of weapons. Kendo sticks, a table, chairs. He set up a table in the corner but the Predators regained advantage and Angelus took the table turnbuckle spot. It was a pretty flimsy table splintered and shattered everywhere. Whole place was a mess, looked like carnage. Faces ended up getting the win, which wasn't a surprise. Good, wild match that gave the crowd what they wanted from Dreamer while putting over Angelus strong and showcasing The Predators who I was pretty impressed with. Post-match Dreamer did something absolutely disgusting: there was this half-eaten chicken leg that had come out of the bin and he put it in his mouth like a victory cigar. GROSS. ---- Then it was the interval when I bee-lined it straight to DiBiase's table, I was the first in line. My heart was going as he walked to his chair. I bought a picture that he signed for £10. Was shaking like a leaf when I had this conversation. After the convo I almost forgot to give him the money. It's not every day you meet one of your all-time heroes. --- MAD MAN MANSON v T-BONE Mad Man Manson came out in a straight-jacket wearing no boots and HOLY SHIT was this guy over with this crowd and especially the kids. They went mental for him. Then something amazing happened: about 30 or 40 of them ran down to the front and surrounded him. T-Bone like all the other heels on the show was not afraid to show his ass, which he did quite literally at one point when Manson pulled his trunks down Rick-Rude-style. T-Bone was pretty impressive in this match. Controlled the action well. Some nice offense mixed in with matwork. Manson did a lot of crowd-pleasing pantomime-type spots including a spot where he'd get thrown over to the turnbuckle but then swing round to sit on the second rope and speak to the fans. Kids found it absolutely hilarious and it was difficult not to laugh. He did it twice and then went for it a third time but T-Bone got smart to it. T-Bone got the win, which meant FOURTH straight clean heel win in singles matches. He looked good though. ROBBIE X v DARRELL ALLEN This was a cruiser weight match. Darrell Allen is one half of a tag-team called The Bhangra Knights, he was the heel here and did a line in looking at the ladies in the crowd. They started off with a lot of chain wrestling and neat counters. Soon they transitioned into more high spots. And they -- especially Robbie X -- did hit some super cool-looking shit including an amazing flying diamond-cutter-like bulldog of the top rope (the actual top rope not the turnbuckle) for the win. Good juniors match. Great German suplex from Allen at one point. Some very good execution in this match. Robbie X with a rare win for the faces. NOAM DAR v MK McKINNAN This was the main event then. Dar came out to "What's the Story Morning Glory" by Oasis and the heel fan in the front row tried to start a chant singing it. Dar was happy enough to play up to it by going to the other corners of the crowd for more, then he was even happier to proclaim that it was only 4 people. McKinnan just didn't seem that over to me. He was also noticeably pudgier than almost ever other member of the roster -- kinda had the same body as Tommy Rich circa 1989 only a lot smaller. Dar has a lot of charisma. His body and some of his movement kinda remind me a LOT of Lanny Poffo. Something about the way he arches his body back. His schtick often sees him pausing and putting his face up into the limelight. He was probably the best heel on this show in terms of knowing how to get a rise out of the crowd. Not that anyone else was outright bad at that, but Dar seems to have an instinct about him. I'm shocked that he's only 19, he wrestles like someone a lot more experienced than that. This was probably the match of the night. Despite that, I don't think McKinnan brought it much. He looked off the pace a few times, but he did sell really well for a lot of Dar's stuff. Dar was super focused on the leg for almost the whole match. He kept going back to it. He did some mean-looking (and sounding) low dropkicks onto McKinnan's shin. He had a variety of different kicks and low-attacks with which he targetted that leg. Took it to the mat a few times too. There was one genuine *holy shit* moment, where even I -- a quiet observer mostly -- said "SHIT" out loud: both McKinnan and Dar were standing on the apron outside the ropes and Dar gave McKinnan a fisherman's suplex onto the edge of the ring and outside. Pretty amazing spot that I don't recall seeing before anywhere. Dar went back to the fisherman's suplex twice after that, but he does a release version (i.e. it's not a pin move like the way Hennig did it). I think that was the finish actually: two fisherman suplexes from Dar after the one outside for the 3 count. As well as the amazing bump on the apron, McKinnan also took a tumble down the steps -- must have been about 20 feet of steps. So a FIFTH clean heel win. And that was it. Noam Dar feels like a name you should note down, I can see him going places in a few years. ROH definitely, but he might have what it takes to go all the way. He's 19 and he felt like the most polished performer on the entire card -- and that's not a knock on any of the other guys who were mostly all solid. ------ All-in-all, this show was way way better than I was expecting. In all honesty, it felt strongly like they didn't need DiBiase there as a draw or an attraction, nor Dreamer for that matter -- although he did help bring something different to the mix. We got comedy, some "hardcore", technical matches and cruiser stuff. None of it was spotty. All of it quite well worked with a strong focus on the crowd, who played their part. My only criticism would be the booking: the two most over faces -- El Ligero and Hanson -- were just pinned clean. But in the two big featured singles matches -- the opener and the main event -- the heels also went over clean. I don't really understand that. MK McKinnan really felt like he could have done with that win too, because he wasn't over to the same extent as the other faces. He did get some cheers but they were a little tokenistic. I'm not sure how sold I am on McKinnan in general to be honest, his selling was good but he didn't show much in his offense, or in terms of charisma or connecting with the crowd. I would definitely consider going to see this company again. I mean hell, I enjoyed this more than I enjoyed most of Wrestlemania. There wasn't a bad match on this card. They announced that Sabu would be coming to one of their shows later this year, and Steve Corino is working a few dates for them. And y'know: why not support local wrestling? These guys are doing something right.

JvK: Well, Ted, I've got to tell you ... you probably hear this all the time, but I'm one of your biggest fans. Back when you were wrestling Hogan, I was the one kid who'd be cheering for you When everyone else was liking Ultimate Warrior and Bret Hart, I was a Money Inc fan. Ted: Ha ha. JvK: One thing I've got to ask you. On the internet, for months now, I've been involved in this debate: "is Ted DiBiase a brawler or a technician?" We've seen all your Mid South stuff, tagging with Stan Hansen in All Japan, as well as WWF ... there's this guy in Texas called Will who swears that you're a brawler. He's always saying "Ted DiBiase's a brawler". I've argued that you are a technician. How do you see yourself? Ted: I was both, when you're a worker you have to be both. Y'know, I was trained by Terry Funk, one of the greatest brawlers, but he was a great technician too. When you're a worker, you have to do what the situation demands of you -- and I was notable for both.

Tonight's the night I'm going to be seeing my hero, Technical Ted DiBiase. Here is the card. Has anybody heard of any of these guys (apart from Tommy Dreamer)? ROBBIE X v DARRELL ALLEN MAD MAN MANSON v T-BONE MARTIN KIRBY v LOCO IMBECIL EL LIGERO v STIXX THE PREDATORS v MAX ANGELUS & TOMMY DREAMER NATHAN CRUZ v MARK HASKINS NOAM DAR v MK McKINNAN Any info would be appreciated.

I avoid HTM shoots now because I just think he's a total scumbag. I'm not into shoots for that whole "hear him SHOOT on X" gimmick. That's a pathetic scene and HTM epitomises it. The best shoots by far I've seen or heard have been the ones with Bill Watts.

No one seems as high on peak Yatsu's offense as I am. Why? At his very best I thought his offense was better than anyone else's in All Japan. His double team spots with Choshu would tick all the boxes for "innovative" too. He's more in the "varied" than focused camp though. Bobby Eaton would be making my all-round top 10, he's got about 5 different backbreaker variations, throws an awesome punch, can work a technical match on the mat or a brawl-type match -- impresses me more and more every time I see him. And have very much enjoyed the face MX run in general, where despite playing FIP most of the time, Eaton's offense has still managed to shine through as being great. I always like Benoit's intensity and the way he'd snap off a suplex explosively. He legitimately did about 12 different suplex variations but they were all executed well, all looked like they'd hurt, all fit his character, and you could argue that stuff like the multiple Germans was innovative. He'd be top 10 for me too. Here's one I'm less sure about but thought I'd bring to the table: what about Arn Anderson? Mr. Focused. Awesome spinebuster. Could we say he had the best offense in the Horsemen?

I like Vader's offense a lot, especially his brutal punches in the turnbuckle spot. "Best offense ever" is an interesting question. The guy who keeps coming back to my mind is Yoshiaki Yatsu, as seen on the 80s All Japan set. I really really dug his offensive arsenal. Around 85-7 he's just throwing bombs and slapping the shit out of people at 100 miles an hour every match. Plenty of times when it was Yatsu/Choshu vs. Jumbo/Tenryu he felt like the standout performer to me. Declines a bit once you get into the Revolution stuff and he's tagging with Jumbo. Hansen's got to be up there. Who else? I think Vader's a strong pick for offense for sure.

I forgot to mention this, but I had a flight booked for this for the end of June/ start of July. Arriving in Atlanta. Every hotel booked. Even tables booked at certain restaurants and ... I had to cancel it ALL. Lost a bit of money on the airfare too. Why? My head of department wouldn't sign off my leave. I have an exam board or something the day I would have got back, but she wouldn't accept the idea of me going away before the official end of the semester. In all honesty I thought the semester would be long finished by that time, but apparently it goes on till the 4th July (even though teaching ends start of May). I was pretty pissed off at this, I mean come on, there's no teaching, no marking to be done, no real reason to be there than this one meeting I could have attended anyway, and she wouldn't sign it off. They jack prices right up in July and August on airfares. And I have to attend my mate's wedding first week of September and then the new semester starts. Never had a job where leave was just flat denied for no real reason like that. You can imagine how pissed off my wife was. So this might be on the backburner till 2014 now.

That didn't take as long as I thought it would to read through. 14 pages, but most of them of 1 and 2 line posts. I always feel reasonably reassured when my broad reaction is more or less in line with the consensus. I do the same thing with 80s DVDR match threads (i.e. don't read them until after I've written out my thoughts). A few little comments though: - Everyone picked out the same match of the night, and I'm glad of that. I had this foreboding feeling after going so high on it that everyone else might have been cynical, so I'm glad everyone else thought it was good too. For me, it was A LOT better than the HBK matches, which I don't like at all. The big difference with this Punk match is that they built to the finishes and false finishes so when they came they had a real impact. Also, Punk was actively working against the fact that you just knew he was going to lose, but yet during the match he does enough to make you forget about that (at least temporarily). I was pretty non-plussed by the build package, so he was actually able to turn me around AND get me emotionally invested into it. Best of the big "streak" matches I've seen from recent years. I really thought it was good. - Everyone hated on the HHH match, as I expected they would, but no one seems to have hated the main event quite as much as I have. I find that interesting, are we now so desensitized to the whole finish-false finish-rinse-repeat thing that we expect it? I really hate that current WWE big match formula but this match is the worst ever example I've seen of it because ... well, they start doing it after five fucking minutes. Literally that match consists of a headlock, a hiptoss, a chin lock and then 25 minutes of false finishes and standing around as if the crowd should be invested in this big drama. It's one of the worst Wrestlemania main events I can think of. Say what you want about Andre vs. Hogan, at least they bloody built to the body slam. Rock was just absolutely terrible in that match. Honestly, that was the worst shit I can remember seeing. I'm a little surprised more people haven't slammed it harder. I mean the HHH match was shit too, but you've got to expect that, the main event has got to be the bigger disappointment. - People seem higher on that 6-man opener and especially on Jericho vs. Fandango than I am. I don't really know why for the latter. Felt awkward and they didn't play up the idea of a big upset enough. Felt like a TV match. - People are generally lower on the Del Rio vs. Swagger match. People don't seem to like Swagger. I thought it felt like a match from another promotion on a different card. I mean you had actual matwork, reversals and counters that didn't immediately transition into false finishes, not quite so many random bombs (the tag title match and the opener were bad for that). Felt solid. --------------- So this is the bit every year where I decide if I'm going to "come back" and watch WWE again or sit out until next year. Hello New Orleans.

Now for the really interesting bit where I go back and read this thread.

- Nice to see The Fink do the HoF intro. Again, they played the music far too loud for me to get a sense of the crowd reactions. I'm going to have to grill Chad about this on the next podcast. Just impossible to tell. - 80, 676 -- big big crowd. Does that unofficially beat Mania 3? - It's John Cena! Already? This is it? Main event time? Wow, that's a short card. Again music far far too loud to hear how the crowd is reacting. It's a bit annoying. His entrance feels really sudden and anti-climactic here. Weird. Now The Rock. Yeah! Get down like it's 2000 mofos. Always liked this theme. Crowd seems to be cheering Rock more than Cena. This doesn't feel as big time as I thought it would for some reason. Anyway, let's go, let's go. Headlock! Hiptoss. I've been thinking about this and surely Cena can't lose this match, I mean he'd be the ultimate choker. Has to go over surely, no? Slowish start here. Cena is doing a lot of "Street Fighter 2" style fighting stances. I wish Rock had thicker eyebrows, he looks like some mates have pulled a prank on him while he was sleeping and shaved them off. Chinlock! Strangely subdued start to this match. This is telling me that this is going to go LONG. Crowd oddly quiet here. Why are they being so quiet? This is Rock vs. Cena dammit, wake up! Seems like Cena's being booed a fair bit, but they are not really popping too big for Rock's offense either. Sharpshooter! Already? Ok. Good strength to counter -- is that a pump-handle slam? I feel like I just don't understand the crowd dynamics when it comes to Cena, feels "complex". Rock bottom attempt, countered. STF. Already? Ok. ... doesn't have it synced in properly. Spinebuster from Rock. Another STF now, he's got it properly this time. Big "Cena sucks" chant. Rock bottom! This match is just a total mess. What the fuck is going on? It feels really disjointed. Rock is just walking about. Another bomb from Cena now. 2 count. I feel like this event has fizzled a bit since the Taker vs. Punk match, it was like a peak from which the crowd still hasn't recovered. Another spinebuster. People's elbow now? Yes, and it looked awkward. I'm pretty disappointed by this. Feels like the commentary team tapped out a while ago too. There's not enough real intensity here to justify the drama we're meant to be experiencing. Too much aimlessness followed by finish attempts, counters, actual finishers and false finishes. The match went into all that stuff far far far too early. Where's the build??! More standing about from The Rock. This is a weird match. Another people's elbow now? For fuck's sake, what's going on? Cena counters! 2 only. This isn't good. It's so stop. Start. Finisher. Counter. False finish. Rinse. Repeat. Stand about. Rinse. Repeat. Slugfest now and at least the crowd are popping. Cena hits the Rock Bottom now. 2. Yawwwnnnnn. This is really frustrating. It's not a match. It's just a series of video game replays. What the fuck is this meant to be? Cena's standing about now. He's just standing there. Oh, people's elbow from him now. It's a sucker move, now Rock Bottom from Rock. 2 count. FOR FUCK'S SAKE THIS IS STUPID. I couldn't dislike this match more. It's fucking awful. This isn't a match. Finish attempt. Counter. Finish attempt. Counter. Finish attempt. Counter. DDT! He's STANDING THERE WATCING NOW. And he's still standing there. And he's still standing there. Rock bottom attempt! Counter! And Cena gets the win ... One of the worst main events in Wrestlemania history. Seriously, what the fucking fuck was that? ---------------- Time for my Where the Big Boys Play style awards: Match of the night: Taker vs. Punk MVP: Punk Billie Graham award: The Rock. Just woeful stuff from him. What's all the standing around about? Pretty underwhelming Wrestlemania with one match I'd give **** to (Punk vs. Taker) and another I'd give about ***1/2 to (Del Rio vs. Swagger). I'd go as far as to say that Cena vs. Rock is a DUD. HHH vs. Brock is a DUD. The six-man about a **. What else was there? Ummm ... oh the tag titles: 1/2*. Henry vs. Ryback about a **3/4. Have I missed anything ... Jericho vs. Fandango, DUD -- actually, no, it was about a *1/2.

- I recognise that boring droning voice, it's our old friend Hunter. Amazing how he hasn't developed as a promo at all in 10 years. So Heyman is involved in this angle too? Ok. "The winner of the match gets your wife"?? This is 1988! That surely can't be the stip. Ridiculous. Oh right, career on the line, no DQ, blah blah, fine. - Shawn Michaels is here. Crowd is not amped as I'd have expected for him, maybe they could turn the music down a bit so I could hear them properly, but seems like a muted reaction. HBK looks like a woman who has had a sex change to become a man. What happened to him? He's so gaunt. - So basically I want Brock to win this for no other reason than that I don't like HHH much and would like him to retire. Wow, nice D&Dish entrance from Hunter. He's not doing the water any more then, just ice now. Oh he is still doing the water. So what's weird here is that after the Punk vs. Taker match, THIS match feels like your equivalent of your nothing Blue Blazer vs. Mr. Perfect sort of deal. Yet it's Brock vs. HHH, weird. Maybe they need to bring back more "nothing" filler matches of that calibre. Y'know Barbarian vs. Jim Duggan sort of match. Crowd seems quiet for what should be a bigger deal. Brock is kicking the shit out of HHH and shouting a lot. First 5 minutes and for whatever reason I'm not feeling it. Another 5 minutes pass and something just isn't clicking here. Crowd is dead. Calls of "how gutsy is HHH?" ring hollow. German suplex from Brock. Spinebuster from HHH to no reaction. Honestly, you'll laugh at me but this is exactly what Duggan vs. Barbarian was for. The crowd is burnt out after a big match, and this is meant to be another big match. They need a restbite. Pedegree! Already? I don't feel like the match has got to that point yet. These false finishes are having less and less impact and the calls of "there goes a career" feel forced. Something about this match isn't working. Crowd just don't seem to care at all about HHH's comebacks, he's not over is he? This is really dragging now. Submission hold by HHH. Ow, that looked like it hurt, slam on the steel steps. This "will he tap?" business looks far too contrived for my tastes. DDT on the steps. Come on, end this now. Here we go, the sledgehammer of doom. Now the crowd's woken up. Pedigree on the steps! Honestly, I didn't enjoy that match at all. Thought it was crap. It's going to be interesting reading this thread after making my comments here. Have no idea how these matches have been received.

lol, of course. Thought it would be odd for Diddy to reference them. Dave Davies wrote and sung that one.

- If Michael Cole says "Wrestlemania moment" one more time I'm going to stick my hand through my TV back in time and choke him out. For fuck's sake. "Will this be his wrestlemania moment?!" Shut the fuck up already. - Bit of Punk vs. Taker build now. The Punk Bearer promos feel cheap and disrespectful. Not needed. Don't think even for a milisecond that Punk has a hope in hell of ending the streak. There is no suspense here. Horrible stuff. - More music concert stuff now? Fuck this, I'm going have to fast-forward. Oh, Punk is coming out during it. I don't like this Paul Bearer stuff, it's tasteless in the extreme. Although Heyman is almost as fat as Bearer was at one stage now. This entrance is taking forever, maybe I should have fast-forwarded. - Undertaker's entrance feels like a big deal. For some reason I keep having flash backs to Royal Rumble 94 for though. Remember vs. Yokozuna when it all went black? This match is taking FOREVER to start. And I have no excitement for it at all. Christ almighty, it's 2 minutes later now and this still hasn't started. This looks like it's going to be a pure Monster vs. Weasel sort of match, seems like it should be. If ever anyone needs to "play the bitch" it's Punk in this match right here. Doing a good job so far. Some decent stiffness in Taker's punches too. Nice post shot. One thing I can't help but notice here is that all night the ref has been VERY insistent on maintaining the 10-count when they go outside, but not here. He hasn't done it. Just a tiny lack of consistency. Been a good pounding on Punk by Taker so far. Nice extended shine. Taker goes for his old rope-walk but gets caught, nice transition. And now Punk is doing the rope walk, awesome! This does feel like one of the better matches so far. I mean I don't like the Paul Bearer thing but Punk is doing a great job of being a disrespectful little prick here. This stretch sequence has been good. Neckbreaker. Focusing on the shoulder now. Taker comes back, just a hope spot. Swinging neckbreaker from Punk. And now a chinlock to take the crowd down and back up again. Good stuff, smartly worked. Snap suplex from Taker. And now Punk tries the rope walk, but this time gets caught -- good payoff. Taker grabs Heyman, but Punk's there. NO! For a second there I thought it was 1988 and that might have been the finish. Punk hits the Randy Savage elbow, 2 count. Chokeslam! Obvious 2 count. But these false finishes are working because they've built well to them. Big elbow from the top to the Spanish announce table! And a 9-count! See, it would have been good earlier if we'd had a countout finish for that to feel like a real possibility. Maybe during the Henry-Ryback match. Vice grip from Punk now, Tombstone! NO!! Hmmm, that's a lot of false finishes now. I'll admit that I thought that was it though. Slugfest. Ref bump! And Taker's leg is still hurt from the announce table spot. My god, urn to the back of the head! Is this it? NO! lol I've been enjoying this a lot more than the HBK match from a few years back. Counter, counter, counter, tombstone! Got to be it. YES. I dunno, call me a mark, but I thought that was great. Match of the night so far.

- Jericho vs. Fandango was silly. High spot. False finish. High spot. False finish. False Finish. What I'd expect of a modern WM match to be honest, except for the actual finish itself which was quite neat as a "big upset". Didn't feel like it had much impact though, shouldn't Jericho have been a bit more devestated about the loss? Is Pat Patterson back booking finishes by the way? They've been pretty good so far. - They've done quite a good job of hyping Rock vs. Cena during this show, feels like a massive deal. Cena hype package was a lot better than the Rock hype package though. - I like the fact they are using "Victory" as the theme track. Shit!! Puff Daddy's actually there! Well, I never. I was a big fan as a teenager and still think No Way Out is a good record. Bet that was cool to see for those who went. He's doing More Money More Problems now, this is a mini concert! Benjamins now! lol, what the fuck is going on? I'd have probably paid to see this to be honest. He's done a better job than Run DMC at Mania 5, ha ha. Also, I think Diddy dropped the first ever reference in Wrestlemania history to The Kinks there when he mentions "Tears of a Clown" in the lyrics of the last song there. - Dutch Mantell now. "Zeb Coulter". I can see what they've done here. Alberto Del Rio. Say what you want, this angle is quite "progressive" for wrestling. - Now Dutch is on the mic. Proper heel heat first real time tonight so far. "Something called Yiddish" ha ha ha ha. Is it wrong that I'm digging this? This is some proper heeling here and good -- if that's what it takes to get a rise from the crowd, why not? It's what people should be booing in 2013. - That's got me reasonably pumped to see this match. Although it'd be nice if our Mexican friend here wasn't being billed like the second coming of El Matador. Couldn't he just be like, a normal bloke who happens to be Mexican? Did it have to be his gimmick? AND he's the world champ? Wow. Ok, let's go. - Is that a fat Pee Wee Herman with Del Rio there with the crutches? Ha ha - I liked Del Rio taking a moment to stamp on Zeb Coulter's hand. This match is being worked at a slower pace than some of the others so far this evening and that's not a bad thing. Still a lot of random bombs all over the place though but not as bad as most of the matches so far. Some matwork mixed in too, and this one feels like it's coming from another promotion or something. Swagger keeps going back to the ankle. I like the fact that Mantell is basically an old-school manager here, good. Cross armbreaker! And a submission. I liked that. Thought it was perfectly solid.

Chaps, I've spent the last couple of weeks assiduously avoiding all WM-related coverage, results and so on. I have no idea what happened and am watching it now. I'm about an hour in. This is the only "modern" show I watch every year and I thought for fun -- since I'm one of the most stubbornly and curmudgeonly anti-modern" fans here- -- I might "live blog" some thoughts as I watch. Some thoughts so far: - Michael Cole is horrible. Relentlessly bland. Lawler also might as well not be there. They are a very lifeless commentary team .... but I think I like JBL. He's understated, and a far cry from being someone like Ventura or Jim Cornette, but he's said some funny things and I liked him smashing on the Rey action figure. - The first match, the six-man involving The Shield, felt like a bit of a mess to me. I didn't like Big Show playing FIP for all the time he did. There were meaningless high spots all over the shop, especially from Orton who bust out a slingshot suplex after less than 30 seconds. You could see the turn coming from even before the match started and it was badly telegraphed by the commentary team. It also felt like it lacked any real impact. I mean I haven't even been watching wrestling for almost a decade and it felt like "just another turn" from him. - The "acknowledging history" trope is extremely noticable. Frequent comparisons between The Shield and The Freebirds and even the Horsemen and the NWO. Then later we even got a Ken Patera shout out. I think it's generally a good thing, even if from Cole's mouth is sounds incredibly shoehorned in and forced. - I thought Henry vs. Ryback worked well. Henry felt a bit TOO slow and methodical at times, and the 9-count felt excessive, but I REALLY liked that finish and didn't see it coming. I liked the booking a lot there: Henry is bigger and stronger, he dominated his younger opponent who bit off more than he could chew. Great. The post-match I guess was necessary for Ryback not to be crushed by it. - Tag title match was neither here nor there for me. A lot of very fake over-excited "and NEW world champions" type calls from Cole. I really dislike him, always have. Kane actually didn't look awful, which surprised me a bit. Nothing too offensive here but felt like a TV match. I'm currently watching Jericho vs. "Fandango". More later.

Also as a side issue, was Luger ever involved with trying to get a union or insurance guarantee together? I can't remember if it was him, Ventura or both at different points, but I believe it's one of the reasons he always had heat with Vince.

Yeah, there is all that. The guy he is in the shoot is not the guy he was in the late 80s. Have you heard Luger talk recently? I watched his interview with Sting on this Christian show on youtube a while back, he has a different perspective again now. (usual Born Again stuff) I always got the impression in wrestling that smarter guys -- Ventura also springs to mind -- aren't that well liked by the locker room.

I've seen both those Rotunda and Luger shoots. Rotunda's is excessively boring. He comes across as someone with zero passion for the business. Luger I always thought comes across as a really nice guy who is just a little bit stupid. I mean just thick. Listening to him it always feels like he was widely misunderstood and that what was taken to be his arrogance back in the day was in fact a manifestation of him just not being one of the boys. While, as with any wrestler, you do have to take him with a healthy dose of salt, I do think he's one of the people who gets an unfair rap -- not least because WWF gave virtual carte blanche to guys to bury him in shoot situations for years.

Is it that remarkable that Vince signed Rotunda multiple times? How many times did he hire Windham? How many times did he hire any high-profile wrestler in the years when he major competition? Most everyone I can think of from The Iron Sheik to Bossman to Jake to Bulldog to Sid to Luger and whoever else was signed 3-5 times by Vince. Rotunda always struck me as a 9-5 kinda guy who a boss could depend on. When half the locker room are roid heads and the other half are smacked out of their heads on coke, I can see why you'd want someone like Rotunda around. Incidentally, I've seen that Windham Timeline too and found him a bit glib in it. He's never really willing to say more is he?

See, I think Blanchard mostly portrayed himself as a weaker heel than Flair. More cowardly, more chickenshit, more "bitch"-like. He's your bona-fide sneaky heel. Comes across even more when he's tagging with Arn and Arn is played up to be the power man of the duo. My main problem with the talk of Flair-as-bitch is because I think it's based on a mis-reading of his character and his matches. Flair's kayfabe character was a guy who had all the bravura to want to go toe-to-toe with someone but he'd try every other trick in the book first (because his mantra was to win at all costs). If the tricks failed or if the opponent got on top, he knew he could back himself to go long, to take punishment, to play mindgames, to see the clock out, etc. etc. The begging off is just one part of this overall schtick. There are other layers there too. Sometimes it's a mind game. Sometimes it's him getting over confident. Sometimes he's genuinely scared. It's not an either/or proposition, he's a multifaceted performer. I don't want this to come off like a knock on Blanchard, who I think is amazing. But I think his character was much more towards being a Honky-Tonk-Man style heel -- that is, if HTM could throw amazing punches and sling-shot suplexes and bump like a maniac. Blanchard is like the best possible chicken-shit heel. Lawler plays a version of this as a heel too. There's a definite difference between that and Flair's NWA champ character from 85-89 . I think Flair in WWF Circa 92 was booked slightly more towards being HTM-style. Money Inc were booked like that too, as was the aforementioned Lawler in 93. WWF had a thing for chicken-shit heels at that time.

Dammit Chad, how can you POSSIBLY have overtaken me?

There is an awesome moment in one of the trilogy matches where Flair is so intense and relentless that Steamboat begs off.

OJ - I felt that way a bit for quite a long time, but watching so much Flair over the past year or so I've come to appreciate some of his standard spots a bit more: Knee block - don't know if that's the name for it but it's when he takes someone's leg out with the diving chop block shot. This always looks cool. Snap mare --> Knee drop - Flair is never given enough credit for how great his knee drop is, but who else does such a classic knee drop? I like the fact that he almost always sets it up with a snap mare. Gives you that feeling that he's getting into his groove. Shinbreaker - doesn't always bust it out, but it's usually cool when he does. Standing vertical suplex - he holds it and holds it before dropping. Not a bad high spot for the era. Butterfly / double-underhook suplex - only busts it out in certain matches (e.g. in Japan or vs. Steamboat), but when he does it's a reminder that he's a great technical wrestler Reverse knifeedge - so sue me Matt D, I can never get enough of Flair slapping the shit out of someone. Other suplexes - Flair does seem to know every suplex in the book and can occassionally surprise you by throwing one out. What I like about it is the illusion of there being more in his arsenal. ------- I've come to appreciate more that Flair's game is all about wearing the opponent out long enough so he can get into a position to get some of the above spots in. It's Rocky vs. Mr. T almost every time. The likes of Sting can Gorilla Press him all night long, but he's backing himself to be able to take the punishment and then take advantage when the time comes. I don't think his offense is particularly more limited than anyone else's from that era. I understand the feeling that "something's missing", but that has gone away for me after seeing Flair in so many different matches and contexts. It's not so much that it's "missing" but that he has stuff in reserve that he only busts out as and when necessary. I like that about him.

So why do we never see Bobby Eaton described as "playing the bitch"? Or DiBiase or Rude or Bockwinkel or any other heel you care to name? I agree with Loss that it's most often brought up as a knock on Flair. Case in point: how did this topic come up?

I'm pro stiffness.