JerryvonKramer

Neither do I. Roughly one sixth of what I think the #1 GWE needs. I think things like this are a factor but all too often have over-indexed in these discussions. I'm sure I've seen that George South match referenced almost as many times than I've seen Flair vs. Morton from 86 mentioned. Steven when justifying not voting for Harley mentioned a piledriver he did outside on a JTTS in WWF. Yeah, but what about the whole career? I really do feel like small paradigmatic examples of a negative over-index in assessments. I've done it myself, I'm sure. When someone mentions a guy I'm lower on, my mind bee-lines to some of the reasons for that. Like I'm sure that Benoit match I don't like would come up before long if someone asked me about why I didn't rank Angle. But I hope you get what I'm saying. I don't like the idea of tiny little details like Flair giving South too much or making Terry Gordy gorilla press him being brought to bear against the METRIC.FUCK.TON of quality performances he has committed to tape. It seems ... disproportionate.

Dick Slater is one of the best wrestlers to show up on the list so far. Had a lot of different skills, good amatuer credentials, face, heel, good on offense, good at selling and bumping, good ground game, could throw a suplex, Florida, Japan, around the territories, could have been NWA champ, reputedly an all-time great tagteam with Bob Orton Jr, all before his Terry-Funk-knock-off years in which he was still serviceable. I wanted to voted for him but lack of prime years footage and BIGLAV said no.

Abby was my #108

This person also left Ric Flair off his ballot entirely. It is what it is. I had Gotch #100 though the #20 ballot doesn't have Flair either. Who is that then?

I think for a significant number of people, he is not on that shortlist, which was at the heart of the infamous and (now terrifying to look back on) Flair vs. Bret thread.

I think it's the sound as well as the visual.

It seems nonsensical for people to claim that Grimmas' position is indefensible. I'm not qualified to judge on the merits until I watch a whole bunch of Japan stuff, and re-watch all the Bret Hart matches I grew up seeing on TV, but it seems really dubious for various people to conclude there is no legitimate way to reach Grimmas' conclusions. This ranking process is inherently subjective and people are allowed to come up with different criteria in arriving at their results ... The debate is at an impasse and over now as far as I'm concerned. But I don't like one side being cast as a set of heels here, not the case. To me Steven frequently comes off like Carey here, fittingly another Canadian: The guy at wheel is reeling off all these amazing Kobashi matches and all these things Kobashi does better. And he's just saying "no Bret is better, no Bret is better" over and over again. The whole debate, in my view, came off like that. And it's why I've never been comfortable removing output -- that is hard, tangible evidence -- from the equation. There has to be evidence to back up claims. The realm of pure subjectivity in any debate descends to the level of that gif. I mean cool, if that's what you want, great, but it doesn't lend itself to actually getting to heart of anything.

This person also left Ric Flair off his ballot entirely. It is what it is.

This was Taue's BIGLAV score: 30. Akira Taue 8 4 10 8 2 8 40 90s Japanese

Dare I mention Akira Taue for this thread?

Marty, when you discussed Akiyama on here you talked about a certain episode of NOAH. Can you name, date or link to that episode? I think we will cover it in full on AJ Excite when it returns.

Part 3 is also in my possession, and people can say if they want a rush release or to wait a couple of days. I am not around tomorrow to do it, so it's basically tonight or Thursday.

I feel I should come clean and admit to having HHH on my ballot. I don't think he's the greatest ever, nor do I even particularly enjoy him must of the time, but I do think if I am to objective, he should be represented here. He represents a form of wrestling I'm not very high on, but he has been very successful and influential within that arena for nearly two decades. Matches such as his Wrestlemania encounters with The Undertaker for example may not be my cup of tea but were accepted as great by a great many WWE fans. In that sense he was playing to please his audience in the same way Misawa and Kobashi were playing to please their audience in All Japan. Just because we are not he audience he is playing to please does not necessarily mean he's not good (or rather hasn't been good, because he's been truly rotten of late) at what he does. In that sense I felt it would not be right for me to write him off entirely, so his ranking on my list was grudging but what I felt was fair. If you're interested, his BIGLAV rating was #115, so he wasn't that far from actually making my ballot.

It is pretty surprising. I will always credit Raven with teaching me the terms "shine" and "heat sequence".

And, I'm sure, once the results have come out, there'll be some kind of King James Version of the list; which takes account only of ballots submitted by the more trusted board members. I actually doubt that such a thing will exist, but a million-billion points to you for calling it the King James version. Still the best version of the Bible, even if it's wildly inaccurate. There was talk of doing a PWO-PTBN hosts one.

150 ballots is likely to help those like Brody, Dory, TM, et. This is a good point. We've still not seen Brody, have we.

This ranking of Batista has me thinking HHH made the top 100. I did fear that 152 voters would translate into an over-representation of 00s WWE. I quite like Batista by the way, but I see that placement as being kind of emblematic. I am expecting a Top 100 placement for Hunter now.

Reminder: I did NOT vote for Mil Mascaras in the end.

My brother is a gay hipster artiste who lives in New York, isn't named Mike, and would sooner slit his own throat than watch anything sports- or wrestling-related. This is not to say that he's NOT, I'm just saying it's unlikely, is all. So he is called Mike? lol

Is MikeF who voted for Ole at 32 PeteF's brother?

Post prime. Snuka from late 70's till 83-84 was pretty damn great. Fuck no. He was so boring in All Japan during that time. Hell, when Brody is carrying your ass as a tag-team partner, you suck. I'd agree that he has some rubbish stuff in AJPW, the match with Steamobat is notably bad, but I like his stuff against The Funks in 81 and in 82 as well. with Brody vs. Funks 12/13/81 I have at **** with Hansen vs. Funks 4/16/82 I have at ***3/4 Incidentally, that 4/16/82 match is about the only time I saw Dory pinned in dozens upon dozens of matches.

I'd probably have both below Kofi Kingston to be honest. Was just remarking that Goldberg's finish seems really high compared to the overall list we've seen so far.

I think Snuka was a fair few levels above Golberg or Warrior. He was a pretty good bumper in his prime, and has surprisingly great performances in Japan as well as in the signiture WWF run in 82-3.

So are we back to thinking he was carried by Rick Rude etc? http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/21083-certifiable-carry-jobs/?p=5565510 One of jdw's more famous beatdowns of jvk. When did Goldberg have any performances along the lines of Warrior vs. Rude or vs. Savage? Didn't he just work squashes to hide his limiations? Like, do you think the average Goldberg squash is better than something like Warrior vs. HTM IC title win?