thebrainfollower

Does anyone know why stuff goes up and then randomly comes down all the time? The Legends Piper and Terry Funk round table was up for all of a day or two, and yesterday I found that all the post ECW becoming Extreme eps went down in favor of a bunch more Eastern Championship Wrestling stuff. All I get when I ask wwe.com is random thank you for your query replies.

Rude vs. Chono from HH 92. I also think the 84 Flair Steamboat 1 hour draw is pretty dull.

That's a real shame at his age. I for one think the Warrior was a great big match worker when he had to be and really underappreciated.

I think he was. Can you think of another Flair match where he hogs all the offense and retreats to the floor every time his opponent is about to get something going? Or doesn't take so many of his opponent's signature offense? Honestly I can't. Including matches from this time period where he was going through this stuff (including dealing with Jim Herd, whose side I tend to agree with somewhat actually)

As to Chad's comment about something not coming together, that would be Ric Flair. I can't think of a worse example of Flair trying to make an opponent look bad and make a match suffer for the purpose of burying an up and comer. Flair does everything in his power to limit Scott's offense and make certain he does none of the things that make him Scott Steiner. Steiner's hatred of Flair is pretty well deserved given what Flair did to him here. Best heel turn in match is probably Barry Windham at Clash 1 or Bret at Mania 13.

I doubt he can sing but man Riggs looks like the perfect Jean Valjean right now.

They took a bunch of stuff down today, including the 4-85 MLG show, a WCCW show that was up for barely a day and some ECW eps. I have to say if the vault is only going to contain 20 or so no PPV programs at a time I'm not sticking past the first 6 months.

To all this Vader love I'd say Harley's interference at the end of matches is usually mildly botched. That Boss-Vader match from earlier in the year has lots of minor screw ups. And Vader was the lowest drawing WCW Champion of all time. I love the guy but I think he's not as great as lot of people online do. His US prime was basically a few years. His Japanese stuff is a different kettle of fish though.

Great podcast. A few notes Warlord had the powerslam when he became a singles. He switched to the full nelson because Davey Boy was coming back and would be doing the powerslam. It could have been the dumbest insider motivation for a feud ever! Gorilla had ZERO clue who MC was. Either Vince on the headset or Brain whispering let him know and he saved it.

My wacky theory - Vince subconsciously wants WWE to die with him and that's why he let's HHH do this. He knew Shane never would. Because as bad as things got when Hogan left, what is going to happen when Cena retires, takes the kids with him and diehards are gone, having given up?

I have memories of Steamboat coughing up blood when Randy Savage attacked him with the ring bell. Years later I realized it was Steamboat's selling that convinced me that's what I saw.

But then if asshole HHH books himself to be right (which being the most insecure main eventer since Hogan, he does all the time) no matter how much you hate it, he's correct. You know much like according to HHH black people aren't championship material and he booked himself to be proven right in that thinking.

By 91 I would argue Heenan's no longer a supervillain. He's done as a manager in May and his only feud prior to that was Bossman. The whole year seems set up to reduce his importance as a villain to get his transition to broadcast journalist ready.

89 Hogan had a one shot vs Honky on SNME.

Jerry were you able to find any 86 Hogan-Piper matches?

I see your point JDW and I agree it made sense running in that way to make it special. But I'd argue that was a happy coincidence more than a plan. Look at the timing for a Hogan run. Early 87 - Andre turns heel. Obviously running matches before WM III would have been moronic and they never did that. But Andre was in no condition to wrestle at that point anyway. After Mania 3 - Andre's hurt. He doesn't get back into a ring (with one exception) until Survivor Series. After that his matches are mostly tags against Hogan until after WM IV. After WM IV Hogan's gone for the summer and Andre's carrying the C shows with Duggan. Hogan comes back but the MDM feud is played out and they figure that Savage needs more help than Hogan to draw so PRESTO put him with Andre. That plays out until December in most markets. December 88 - Could have happened here but for whatever reason Hogan-Bossman is red hot so again let's use Andre to main the C's (with Jake this time) After WM V - Hogan-Savage makes more sense at this point. That played out through the fall in most markets. Maybe they could have run Hogan-Andre instead of Warrior-Andre but I'd argue by that point Andre's mystique was gone. The dude didn't even win a replacement feud with Hillbilly Jim for cripes sakes! Even by then as a ten year old WWF mark of all marks I could see Andre was fading and wasn't that shocked when Warrior beat him. So really the only time they could have run the feud logically was when Andre was needing surgery. I'd like to think Vince kept it waiting as part of a master plan but I'm not sure, I think he did the best with what was forced upon him. If not why not simply book another national feud for Hogan after WM 3 (at April's SNME for instance)?

I think a lot of that was due to Andre's health. If Andre post WM III was in the same health he was in around 78 they would have run that match everywhere and made a fortune. Probably the old 3 match series ending in a cage. Andre wasn't but they knew that was the money feud when he returned. And Vince was working on the MDM character but those two things had to segue. So they go back to the reliable Hogan vs. whoever for a few months. Race, Kamala, Herc and 87 Savage really didn't have much buildup. Khan did but that angle was only in some markets. And looking at the WM 3 fallout, who's really built up enough to challenge Hogan? About the only heel with a win and tons of heat was Dangerous Danny Davis. I don't think that.........actually it might have worked. People wanted Davis DEAD in 87 and if there was ever a "I KNOW I'm getting what I want to see" match it's that one. I'd have run it a few times to see what happens.

Hercules is another. Beefcake struck me in that vein but he actually had more matches with Hogan in, I want to say 85, than anyone (extenuating circumstances there) else. Valentine had a few shots. So did Bob Orton. Sika's a good example. Afa is so good an example I forgot. Even Moondog spot main evented a few shows with Hogan. Haku had some later. Rude had one match with Hogan. Bottom line Hogan fought virtually every heel at one time or another from 84-87. He didn't seem to have "just one challenger" very often in the same way Bob did. More a rotating variety. I wonder if that wasn't because Hogan card paydays were so much higher. Keep all the heels happy by giving them a shot or two. You want guys to stay around beyond a year so you lure them with a few big pay days a year. With Bob they didn't want guys staying around very often (See Baron Scicluna to see what happened to you if you did).

You are too entertaining and cool to hate Johnny. That either makes you the best heel in podcasting history or the worst (though I agree with your views on Titans 95% of the time)

There's also the story that Vince has said Cena will be the guy until the day he retires. I wonder if HHH is on board with that. I can't figure out how Cena/Wyatt goes on last. Taker/Brock is such a foregone finish I can't see that either and god help them if they try and finish with Batista-Orton. Bryan has gotten the "almost but not quite push". He might get the big push but a 5th most important WM match against Sheamus just isn't it. I suppose it's POSSIBLE Meltzer is actually on board with WWE's storytelling, reporting what they tell him to. Or he's being worked as well, but I wouldn't think he's that naive. Breaking up the two world titles is looking like a dumb move, since it might give them a way to give Batista what he wants and all the fans what they want.

You also need more top heels when you have 3 cards a night with 2-3 matches that draw among them. There were definitely some villains of the week. Kamala's a good example. Terry Funk is another, he pretty much left after his Hogan run (or during it IIRC). Killer Khan is another. 84-86 is a bit more confusing because Hogan didn't really have focused feuds until Orndorff. He might have a 3 match series with Savage at MSG or Muraco but he fought pretty much every big name heel in the company in 84 and again in 85. It seemed random and not really focused. Piper had a bit of a TV build up as did Savage but nowhere near as much as the Orndorff turn and I don't think it's a coincidence that's when the WWF REALLY took off with ticket sales. I do think it's as much about guys having a bunch of places to go to to be the top guy as it is WWF's super villain storytelling.

Why? What did anyone see in that guy? He didn't have any of the charisma of Rock, Austin, Foley or Taker. He was seen as Shawn Michaels sidekick and it looked to me like WWF had had it with Shawn after WM XIV (his freak out at the press conference struck me as a "that's it" moment but the guy was back a few months later). But still if Shawn couldn't work (or wouldn't work) his value was extremely low so why does his minion still have such pull? Was it the moment HHH suggested the Montreal screwjob he endeared himself to Vince for life (here's someone as ruthless and big a jerk as I am would be his thinking I suspect)?

Was there anyone prior to HHH pushed down the fan's throats as a main eventer they didn't want to see in that role to that extent? Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Bret, Shawn, Taker, Austin, Rock all seemed to have natural fan bases that supported their guy. Diesel as well. I guess Luger maybe, but Vince gave up on that after eight months. It makes me wonder when Hunter really started dating Stephanie because his push just seemed all out of proportion and always has. Unless Vince just legit sees Hunter as what he wanted to be. That might make sense. They both seem to have the same insecurities.

And they won't give DB a shot at EITHER role. Give him one to make his fans happy, it's not really that hard.

I'd like to think it's a generational issue but really I think it's more Hunter than anything else. I can't think of anyone so insecure that they need to be the smartest, strongest, toughest person in an entertainment field for 15 years. Are there any stage, television or film actors it's this bad? I can't think of anyone with a run that long.