thebrainfollower

I am not sure I can agree with that. I think Flair's a good enough BS artist to always have an excuse. Flair should have dropped the belt to Luger at GAB 88 and frankly he should have done so as well at Starrcade 88, both times in an effort to jump start the company while gates were still not in total freefall. I think Flair has a better excuse for both PPV's in 1990 IF we assume Sting is miles ahead of Luger as a worker. But watching the footage he wasn't. Isn't it possible Flair knew this from the start and groomed Sting on purpose because he would not be able to eclipse him in the same way Luger might have? Those are the same sort of political machinations Hogan pulled regularly and Flair was no different. But then I'm someone so down on Ric Flair the human being that I think he encouraged the crazy party lifestyle because he knew most people couldn't handle it and would crash and burn out (DVE, Magnum (not due to drugs I know, but exhaustions leads to bad decisions) thereby eliminating potential competition so maybe it's just my anti Flair bias. I still think he's probably the GOAT as a wrestler. As a human being I think VERY little of Ric Flair.

I can see Flair's perspective. From Luger's point of view he probably saw the Horsemen (and Flair particularly) as throwbacks to the worst sort of fratboy/jock behavior that derailed him in college and nearly cost him so much. He was probably determined to never go down that path again. Or maybe I'm wrong and Luger was a huge party guy but JJ Dillon seems to throw cold water on that IIRC in his a week with the Horsemen shoot.

Don't forget he did horrible things like start guaranteed contracts and argue for wrestlers getting health care coverage. Which to someone of Flair's beliefs, probably are horrible things (Well the former is at least debatable I guess) and explains some of his feelings. And from everything I've read of Luger, he didn't hold the business in total awe at all times but saw it as somewhat lowbrow entertainment that he was slightly ashamed to be a part of. All valid feelings I guess if your goal was to be a legit athlete, but not the sort of thing that's going to endear you to Flair. All this Luger never knew how to work stuff though, well add that to the pile of evidence that wrestlers are the last people you solicit about who can and who can't work.

What month did Flair's haircut debut?

Would Capitol Combat have been Sting going over again in a cage do you think?

Kevin Sullivan's 1996 timeline review. REALLY good stuff, wish I had the Luger one and a few others I'm curious about. Sullivan probably has the 2nd best relationship to Hogan as a "boss" than Vince himself did in the 80's and finding out how he gets there is fascinating stuff.

Covered 63-69?

If he admits his hate of Vince Russo is a work, I hereby nominate Jim Cornette as the greatest actor in human history.

I'm telling you, you haven't read a PWO post till you've read it in netscape navigator!

This is the only wrestling forum I post on. Of the other two forums I love I would say the classic horror film board is a pretty good role model to follow. People, even minor "celebrities" (people who appear on DVD making ofs) have been banned for getting out of line and saying the sort of things Brickhouse did. On the other hand please don't follow the example of Gallifrey Base, a doctor who forum I visit. There, every time the BBC "suggests" it, a thread is closed down. They have rules so complex (there's a whole list of people you can't talk about, and you are never allowed to quote anyone without their written permission) that I honestly just lurk because I'm scared I may say something to get me banned. JDW and I don't agree on much really but I don't hate the guy or anyone else here. If I ran into him I'd buy him a drink and we'd talk wrestling I'm sure. I never get the idea of feuding over something like a hobby, not to the point of genuinely being angry. Unless any of you start making fun of the ALW STAGE version of Phantom of the Opera. Then it's on.

FYI guys Witschi's Sports Arena in North Attleboro had weekly C WWWF cards until September 21 1979. That day it burned down, and thanks to hospital records and the town paper I can tell you it literally burned down as I was born.

Nothing personal Johnny but your discussion of HHH and Stephanie I don't think you really get the point. IF the end of that storyline was them getting theirs finally and Punk and Bryan rising to John Cena levels that would be the internet getting what they want But that's not what's going to happen. IF they end up losing at the end of this storyline and that's a HUGE if, it will be at the hands of some combination of Vince, Shawn Michaels and John Cena. In other words the same old political BS we've had for a decade that's turned off millions of viewers. At the end of the day an effective heel has to LOSE. Put over the new talent, walk away defeated and not continue to look like the strongest smartest man in history. HHH cannot do that, it's beyond him as a human being to look that weak. Same as Hogan really, and as big as Hogan was, he eventually became a cancer to every promotion that used him after 1998. The rest of this show was fine. But the modern talk...........the whole reason I love PWO is because I can finally get away from modern internet wrestling discussion. Please don't bring it in, even if only for a few moments.

To you it's unwatchable. To me it's decent entertaining stuff that tells a good story I enjoy. JCP is better in tag wrestling until you get to the finish, which is usually garbage. I've said it so many times, but to me, endings are very very important. Dusty's endings are awful and WCW in general continued his trend for years. Memphis endings are usually pretty amazing, especially when you consider being a weekly promotion meant they had to be less than conclusive usually to draw people in for the next week. Mid South wrestling had great finishes. So my perspective isn't just pro WWF or pro northeast. It's just anti Crockett (though the finishes prior to Dusty seem fine for the most part, but they are frequently poor after Dusty as well so I can't just blame him). Nostalgia is a big factor, but also learning a lot more than I knew as a kid watching is important Someone like Buddy Rose I love, and I only knew him as the blowaway guy and a jobber as a kid, so it's not just childhood nostalgia. I thought NOTHING of Lawler as a teen but having watched Memphis I get the love (don't agree with NA GOAT, but top 5 since 1970 yes)

Agree with that slasher. There needs to be a female to step up to match the heel valet, much like Elizabeth did. Plus that story just sort of died with Jericho beating Tomko and Trish winning the women's title and not caring anymore. At the time I wanted Christian to get Kane's shot against Benoit but given that we'd have a shot of Benoit putting Trish in the crossface.....yeah. Things ended up working well. I would say the thing that disturbed me more about her heel turn was the implication it happened because she liked getting beat up by Christian. Yeah that's a GREAT moral point to give your audience from a women who's been portrayed as a role model for a few years. Thought you all might find this amusing but I had to spend 20 defending Jerry Lawler as NOT one of those "guys who got away with being bad' today. Sometimes it's hard to talk to today's fans, I feel like we are all speaking different languages.

In all honesty I am going to agree with Steamboat as a great choice to be the Scorpion. Admit the truth, the fans didn't care for his image. Have Flair come out and seem shocked to see his long term rival turn heel, possibly have Steamboat even lay him out to get over the idea Steamboat's lost it and hates everyone. If Steamboat's a great worker he should be able to figure out how to wrestle heel. Can I also point out Evil Jim Herd is my new hero. I await his rant when they get to GAB 91 with baited breath.

I would argue Trish Stratus was actually a very good worker overall if you apply the criteria of WWE woman's wrestlers in her era as a fair judgment. She wasn't a spectacular worker but could do a decent to very good match more often that not, evolved from a god awful promo to a very good one and played her part well. I would say she was the best heel in WWE in 2004.

JDW While I completely agree with you about what the main events were, I think you will find that CHV's of PPV's came out VERY fast back in the day. I got Royal Rumble 92 less than a month after it came out on PPV. Now taking that into account the cover had to be designed before the event. And the buildup to WM 8 was VERY much 50/50 Hogan/Sid vs Savage/Flair. I've got all the February and March Superstars, Challenges and Prime Times and can attest to that. I'd agree Hogan/Sid was the main but it was VERY close, much much more so than Summerslam or Survivor Series.

I love Vader, but I sometimes think we can lose a sense of proportion. He was one of, if not THE lowest drawing WCW Champions in history. If that's a talking point against Shawn Michaels in WWF then it has to be a talking point against Vader as well to be fair. And unfortunately the crack WCW camera team (sarcasm) sometimes did him no favor. There are minor botches and errors in many Vader matches (The Spring Stampede 94 match for instance) that better camera work would have hidden. I wonder what an in his prime Vader would have been like in WWF. Would Vince have, given his big man style, have allowed anyone to suplex and toss Vader the way Sting did?

My 100 or so Coliseum Videos are at a friends. DVD's and blu rays here in order of release. PC files are down by promotion and then into sub categories of full show or match. Match then subdivided by year when necessary. I own tons of WCW, WWF up to 97, and other major promotions. To be honest my Rock/Austin/Mankind/Taker DVD's contain all the Attitude era WWF I want to rewatch.

Wanna explain that one Matt?

I think crowd reaction is an extremely important thing usually but I'm wondering if there are exceptions. For instance the most obvious example would be the Sturgis WCW PPV crowds. Do we count their attitude towards Benoit vs. Malenko and Harlem Heat in general? How about the Bash 91 crowd turning on Luger-Windham when circumstances aren't even close to either guy's fault?

I typed in the username and password listed above in dropbox.com. Says invalid. So what am I doing wrong? Not the best expert with this stuff.

That's fair but.........who did they beat on TV either? I would argue at that time virtually everyone was protected. Piper, Beefcake, Jake, Rude, Perfect, Dibiase, Bossman, Dusty etc etc. Unless you are counting the televised house shows pretty much nobody not named Haku, Tito Santana, Jimmy Snuka or Koko B Ware did more than a few TV jobs a year back then. You can add the Hammer and Ronnie Garvin to guys who did frequent jobs. And Hercules. But there's a whole tier of nearly 20 guys who were protected on TV, necessary to make 3 house show circuits have enough intriguing matches to entice a fan's interest.

I kind of do actually. I was shocked to see how many matches Brutus got with Hogan in 85 (IIRC more than anyone) and I would assume a bunch in 86 as well. I am sure Hogan was telling him all the time "Your big main event run with me is just around the corner brother". Never going to happen (well in WWF) but Beefcake bought it. Then the Barber gimmick comes along and Hogan's saved from his own lies (not that Ed Leslie would have done anything anyway but Hogan's paranoia and dishonesty is mind boggling I just watched 2002 Off the Record with him and laughed my head off at it)

You might be right there Matt, the two Undertaker matches are decent and UT was nowhere near that level by that point. So it all comes down to wondering why Vince so badly booked his pet project.