thebrainfollower

It was more of an attempted theft IIRC and Taker got it back in light speed time which was fairly amusing. The other highlight of the taping was Bobby Heenan announcing Ric Flair's arrival. Boy did I have stuff to talk about with my friends after that night. Did you see a fan knock Taker's hat off at the entrance way, as he was coming down the aisle?

Duggan had a house show series with Taker around this time, losing em all via DQ. Why the heck Jim Duggan couldn't lay down to the guy that was about to pin Hogan on PPV I have no idea.

My circle of wrestling fans are extremely WWF and 90's on centric, but even they hold the the dog collar match in high regard so yes I would say it's well regarded.

This was an epic podcast, and even though there were no real shocks I listened with enthusiasm for the entire show. Chad is def right about the Tommy Young spot, I have no problem with a ref being able to push around a manager or maybe the lowest jobber as a gag, but the world champ should be smarter than that.

Hogan makes the absurd claim in his book that the 2nd tombstone injured his neck. I've heard the story that a distraught Taker was backstage thinking he had hurt Hogan for real until Flair smartened him up, any truth to that? This match has nostalgia for me. I attended the first ever Hogan-Taker match at the Worcester MA Centrum in July and was the ONLY kid pulling for Taker as I loved classic horror movies and he seemed like a wrestler right out of them. The next week at school (well Monday at least) I was in my glory laughing about how Hulk Hogan was finished. And the irony was...he sort of was. I would argue this match and the rematch are the first obvious signs that Vince was truly ready to move on from Hogan. Anyone else see it that way or am I nuts?

One thing I cannot agree with you Chad. Rockers/Tito vs. Rougeaus/Martel is an amazing match, easily on par with the best stuff of SS 89 and this show. It gets no love.

Getting back to the Road Warriors as a draw that I started, at least for the AWA in Chicago Jerry Blackwell is indeed the man based on these numbers posted way back on page 1. Apologies for not seeing this fully, but it does seem like Roadies departure did hurt things a lot (going from 7K to 1800) just not as much. Still though the numbers really make me wanna rip Verne's head off. 3 guys leaving and it seems like combined they dropped crowds from 13K to 1800. Though I guess in Blackwell's case the health issues might have been too great for Verne to get around, he really should have bent over backwards to keep the RW's around, and use them as sort of a traveling act ala the NWA world champ when they got stale in the AWA circuit. AWA @ Rosemont, IL – Rosemont Horizon – January 10, 1986 (13,000) Bill Irwin d. Kelly Kiniski Scott Irwin d. Baron Von Raschke Nord the Barbarian & Boris Zuhkov d. Earthquake Ferris & Marty Jannetty Nick Bockwinkel d. Larry Zbyszko by DQ AWA World Tag Titles: Jimmy Garvin & Steve Regal © d. Scott Hall & Curt Hennig AWA World Heavyweight Title: Sgt. Slaugther d. Stan Hansen © by DQ Steel Cage Match: Crusher Blackwell & The Road Warriors d. The Fabulous Freebirds AWA @ Chicago, IL – International Amphitheater – February 23, 1986 (7,000) Leon White d. Doug Somers Col. DeBeers d. Buck Zumhofe The Midnight Rockers d. The Alaskans No DQ Match: Larry Zbyszko d. Nick Bockwinkel Scott Hall, Curt Hennig, & Brad Rheingans d. Mongolian Stomper, Nord the Barbarian, & Boris Zuhkov The Road Warriors d. Bill & Scott Irwin AWA World Heavyweight Title: Stan Hansen © battled Sgt. Slaughter to a no contest AWA @ Rosemont, IL – Rosemont Horizon – March 23, 1986 (5,500) Scott Irwin fought Brad Rheingans to a draw The Midnight Rockers d. Earthquake Ferris & Doug Somers Bruiser Brody d. Rick Renslow AWA World Tag Titles: Scott Hall & Curt Hennig © d. Col. DeBeers & Buddy Rose Texas Death: Nick Bockwinkel d. Larry Zbyszko The Road Warriors d. Nord the Barbarian & Boris Zuhkov by DQ AWA World Heavyweight Title: Stan Hansen © d. Rick Martel by countout AWA @ Rosemont, IL – Rosemont Horizon – April 27, 1986 (1,800) Brad Rheingans d. Col. DeBeers by DQ The Midnight Rockers d. Buddy Rose & Doug Somers Sherri Martel d. Candi Divine by DQ AWA World Tag Titles: Scott Hall & Curt Hennig © d. Bill Irwin & Ryuma Go Catch Wrestling Rules: Larry Zbyszko d. Scott LeDoux Bruiser Brody, Nord the Barbarian, & Boris Zuhkov d. Greg Gagne, Mike Rotundo, & Leon White AWA World Heavyweight Title: Nick Bockwinkel d. Stan Hansen © by DQ

I'm gonna go with the Bossman. Part of it is I've seen virtually his entire career starting as a JCP jobber whereas with Haku I've only seen his WWF/WCW runs and some AWA and Japanese matches. Where did he start his career and what's out there to watch?

I was a fan at the time and would add to this, but the thing is I cannot, cannot rate Yokozuna matches objectively. My best friend and I were both huge WWF marks from 88 on (86 for me) and would talk wrestling for hours a week. But the moment Yokozuna bench pressed Randy Savage (his favorite) out of the Royal Rumble, his days as an active wrestling fan were done and 20 years later he hasn't come back (though we watch anything pre 93, but he only likes WWF stuff mostly). So Yokozuna is someone I really hate (as a wrestler not a person) for those personal reasons. My other objection is generic to every big man, it's not that he can't bump or do cool stuff, it's that he's so fat that guys arsenals are really really limited. He and Taker had a good 4.5 minute mini match at Royal Rumble 94 but with someone like Taker you're very limited because his best moves are impossible. Luger it was even more obvious that all Luger could do was punch, clothesline, semi bodyslam to Yoko. Maybe that's more a limitation of what I consider good wrestling than one deserved to Yoko I don't know.

Welcome back guys! My month was darker for not having WTBBP to savor! This is indeed one strange Clash show and I agree with both your comments on the opener and the main event. I think the "I Quit" formula is a rare example of modern WWE making something better because the match usually feels so epic you understand why a guy would have had enough. Whereas this wasn't THAT much different from a typical Flair match.

You don't mean an outside card? In Feb in Jersey?

Okay but it does seem that when other promotions (Memphis for instance) is holding a "hold Vince off at all costs mega card" the Roadies are the common theme. The AWA slowed down or stopped booking Sarge, Blackwell and The Roadies all around the same time IIRC. If you go back and look at 84 and 85 cards from top to bottom the guy with the closest correlation to cards coming up when he's there and down when he's gone is Blackwell.

Going through GC's site for 85 results to fill a bored afternoon I came across this listing. WWF @ Westwood, NJ - Pasckack High School - January 8, 1985 Charlie Fulton defeated Rene Goulet SD Jones defeated Mr. Fuji Hillbilly Jim defeated Jose Luis Rivera The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff defeated the Wild Samoans Don Muraco defeated Tito Santana Mike Rotundo fought Adrian Adonis to a draw Barry Windham defeated Dick Murdoch Paul Orndorff defeated the Tonga Kid via count-out Jimmy Snuka defeated Bob Orton Jr. via disqualification WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan defeated Roddy Piper via disqualification Now here's the thing. This is a high school card. A freaking high school. And yet other than WM and the Wrestling Classic I think you could easily make a case that this is the most star studded card all year round. Hogan-Piper in a high school. Santana, Muraco, Snuka, Orton, Sheik, Volkoff, Windham, Murdoch, Rotundo, Adonis. Heck other than Andre, JYD, Studd and Valentine this is the entire top roster of the time. About the only theory I have is Vince needed some money to pay his WM celebs in advance, went to the Mafia for it, and somebody wanted his kids high school to have the granddaddy of all shows to show off to his friends.

Shawn did it. I can see Shawn's early 92 heel work vs. Hawk or Animal in a singles quite easily. Marty did it pretty well in 96 with Leif Cassidy too. By default, the Rockers would of had to change their ENTIRE characters and style that they work their matches, especially back then to work as heels, and them working with the dominant LOD in that capacity, at that period of time, simply wouldn't have worked.

Is it criminal to say I actually preferred some of Russo's stuff to Nash as a booker? In the same way Ed Wood is universally regarded as the worst director of all time, but Plan Nine and Bride of the Monster are much much more entertaining than stuff like "Manos - The Hands of Fate" or "The Beast of Yucca Flats" kinda way but still...I think I prefer Russo's run to Nash's in booking except for the lack of long matches IIRC.

And yes the Roadies-Disasters was a horrible horrible idea. Same as how Taker was booked so he couldn't actually do his finisher to virtually any opponent for like two years (how the heck do you tombstone Yoko, Gonzalez or Mabel?) Vince has always had a hard on for the "yeah but how would he beat THIS monster" when booking a monster face rather than going for the contrast and getting a much much better match out of it. Imagine a Rockers heel turn and how good Shawn and Marty might have made the LOD look as opposed to what that Disasters feud did for them.

Well looking at the numbers city by city it looks like the AWA's numbers dropped pretty hard around the time the Roadies left. Maybe that's just a coincidence but I have my doubts.

One thing this thread did reinforce for me is how deserving of legendary status the Road Warriors are. If Vince had signed them in January 84 with everyone else you can knock probably 35% of the AWA's numbers through mid 86 and a ton of numbers as well for super shows where they came in as a special attraction. I'd place them with Flair, maybe above him as the 2nd major attraction of the expansion era.

Watched Capitol Combat 90 early this afternoon for the first time as a whole. Only problem is the commentary is about a minute behind the action though it says something about how generic JR and BC were on this show that I barely noticed most of the time. Gordon Solie selling Robocop has to be a rib doesn't it? Overall a good show though a bit of a filler. Putting the entire promotion main event scene on pause while Sting healed for half a year.....I'm not sure. Watching Wrestling Gold volume 2 right now. Probably my overall favorite commercial DVD wrestling release ever.

You can do it El-P. We're all pulling for you here. And the Hummer driver was obviously evil wrestling mastermind Carmen Electra.

Personally I think blood is not needed in pro wrestling and I would prefer to see it very very rarely maybe 2 matches a year or so. Once I learned how wrestlers cause themselves to bleed I winced. I love these guys and gals. I don't want to see them mutilating their faces for my enjoyment. That's just sick and no entertainment or sport should force its performers to do this. I'm a stage actor and if any director handed me a packing crate razor to "get some juice" for a show I'd laugh my head off, report them to a union and relax. Same for any athlete I'm sure. Blade jobs are one of the things that help cause the vast majority of the public to look down on wrestling. Look at the reaction the Wrestler got in those scenes, however exaggerated they might be. Blade jobs might help hardcore fans but no mainstream US promotion that wants to go national can go anywhere on just those types of fans. TBS was right in its choice.

I want someone to cover both versions of Doctor Who in this way next. I'd fork out cash for it.

Great podcast of a great show. I think this is 2nd only to the first clash as the best one of the decade actually. Rocksteady and Bebop getting a shout out was the highlight, I'm hoping JVK can find a way to work Krang into a discussion at some point.

There's not much more I can say other than I agree with JVK and EL-P 100%.

Well there's the tag title change but I assume you mean Condry/Eaton