MoS

That's a really bad example to use. "She's just as cool as she was before, she is just being booked as a heel now, against faces" is also the point I am making. It's why I find it so unappealing. That is the problem, it's why I have no interest in seeing her in a role where she is supposed to get booed. I don't enjoy booing her. Thus this argument that she behaves the same with everyone doesn't hold water with me when she is being clearly positioned as a heel against Bianca. Also, her demeanour absolutely changed after she became a face. She was no longer saying she hates the fans for not believing in her. She was no longer walking out of her matches midway like a coward, the way she did against Charlotte in their last woman standing match. If anything, they went too far the other direction for a while immediately after, giving into the usual trope of making her an underdog babyface against the evil McMahons. She was booked like the company ace in 2019.

Do we have an example of Rollins carrying an inferior worker to a good to great match? I think Moxley did that with Brian Cage and managed to drag something decent out of Jake Hager in an empty arena match. Roman I think has had very good matches with Baron Corbin and Edge. Are there similar Rollins matches in the same category? I am not being facetious; it's a genuine question.

Neither guy is making my list I don't think, but I had to go with Shawn because his worst traits are not nearly as annoying as Omega's to me, and while Shawn's Rockers run has rightly been mentioned, I don't think Omega has put everything together in terms of character work and in-ring work which incorporates character work and personality into matches, into an incredible package with a great consistent run, the way Shawn had during his heel 1997-98 run. From his role as the guest ref for Bret-Taker at Summerslam to the time he dropped the belt to Austin at WM 14 in 1998, his run was absolutely stunning. I don't think any heel in WWF has got the heat he was getting then, even with Vince at his peak, I don't think the crowd hatred was that visceral. The only thing that works against him is Omega's lackeys, the Good Brothers, while completely useless and always stinking up the screen, haven't been as harmful to wrestling as Shawn's minion ultimately turned out to be.

So were Austin and Rock always. Doesn't mean you should turn them heel. Dressing obnoxiously doesn't turn you heel when everyone loves you; it probably increases the love. Rock wearing sunglasses indoors was obnoxious too after all. Also the Edge thing was before she officially turned face.

Yeah I think while him losing to Okada for the first time worked great for NJPW long-term, it wasn't as good for his personal drawing power. Difference was that New Japan's future at that time was tied to Okada (and Omega) and not Naito, while in this case, Page is the future.

I don't think there's any way AEW comes close to WWE's 50+ numbers in years at least. It's a generation that either became fans as kids/teenagers when Hogan was the champ, or in their 20s/30s when the Attitude Era happened. WWE is the only wrestling they have basically ever known. It's an entirely different ballpark. To them, AEW is genuinely a pissant t-shirt company.

People also keep pointing to Naito and that is such a different case altogether, and that is without going into the different format of American wrestling, with weekly primetime TV.

Beat it in the head to head battle in the target demo too. When a promotion is hot, it's hot.

The Rampage half-hour which went head to head with 30 minutes of Smackdown actually beat that Smackdown half-hour in the key demo, which absolutely stunned me, given that Rampage had Matt Sydal and the fucking Bunny as one side of the quarters

I am seeing some talk on Twitter about how Hangman losing at this PPV and winning down the line is better for the story. I thought he shouldn't take a pinfall loss to Omega when he finally meets him one on one in any case, but to have him lose after the promo he cut last Dynamite would be completely crazy to me. He is more than ready now to be the ace.

Not sure if you have checked out his NJPW run, but if not, I would recommend the Lance Archer Texas Death Match from WrestleKingdom 2020 , the first Suzuki match, and his G1 run in 2019. For PPV, I liked the Kingston and Brodie Lee PPV matches. I also really enjoyed his TV match with Brian Cage, who I find very hit and miss in the ring, and his TV Darby matches. His Bloodsport work isn't always good, but when it's good, it's really good. I do think that part of what makes me prefer Mox is his charisma and promo ability, which is not part of the GWE criteria (for me at least) unless they are incorporated effectively into matches. I'll have to go back and rewatch his matches to get a sense of how much my enjoyment was due to out-of-the-ring elements, and how much of that is due to his actual work in the matches, i.e. whether he incorporates his charisma and personality in his matches effectively.

It's close between Mox and Roman for me, but Mox has more natural charisma and I like the aura he has especially outside WWE. He has a wilder, more imposing presence for me despite not being physically as big and muscular, and I like his high-end match more than I like Roman's, although Roman has had more of them. He has mostly been doing nothing since losing the world title, but I am looking forward to his coming heel run. I disagree that Rollins has all the tools needed to be an all-timer, although I guess it depends on exactly what you would define as "between the ears" in this context. He has some really cool moves, but he doesn't have the skill to effectively structure them into a cogent, sensible match. Even with his moves, he repeats a lot of them and uses them in weird spots, like an amazing spectacular dive to begin his heat section. He really was at his best in a stable like the Shield, where everything he did automatically had a purpose because of the team and the larger structure in place. If by tools you mean athleticism and balance and a good look and body, I would agree. Although his voice is so nasal and annoying, he can just never be a long-term face, so there's that.

Does it really need to be anything more than a secondary title which is still booked strongly enough for its champ to still brag about being the best? I guess the IC title in New Japan for a modern equivalent? The WWF IC title in the 80s can't really be an analogy since Hogan was so far above everyone else.

Yeah, true. I was thinking of a kayfabe reason. Well to be fair, Bryan is in this tournament.

There should definitely have been more big names in the tournament. That said, title shot tournaments don't need to have all the top stars participating in them. Some of them should have been in, some are busy or occupied with other stuff. This tournament isn't booked like the G1 or the CC, it is for one future title shot in the near future. There will be more title shots in a TV-based promotion. The belt needs to keep getting defended, there need to be new challengers, new title matches, even when other people are busy or cannot afford to take up their chance at a title shot in case they lose. That's not the case with someone like Hobbs, who has nothing to lose and might as well try. Same reason why the Casino ladder match also had Matt Hardy and PAC. In kayfabe, Punk could have said something like he wants a title shot next year at PPV, not so soon this year on TV, where he wouldn't have enough time. Therefore, when some top contenders refused, spots opened up. Having said that, I definitely would replace some of the names in that tournament. I don't know whom Miro will face at the PPV, but he could have been in the tournament, maybe for the PPV, he could have been in some fallout match from the tourney.

I am not very educated on this topic, but Japanese cultural and entertainment products have been successfully exported to the entire world: games, movies, consoles, etc. I am not denying that there are massive cultural differences, but even then, New Japan has been immensely incompetent in this regard.

The biggest star does not need to wrestle for the title if they are not in a condition to do justice to the spot. Bruno was called the living legend and the biggest star in the world after his program with Billy Graham got over, he didn't need to try and win the title again for that to be incompatible with the product's presentation. Hogan or Rock after they returned to WWF after years did not immediately challenge for the title and no one had an issue calling them the biggest star in the world. That saying is used in the context of young wrestlers wanting to eventually reach the top of the table; it is a call for ambition and hunger. Someone like CM Punk doesn't need to show that immediately. He can afford to build himself back to that level before challenging for the top spot. It's because he has already been there. It has been less than two months since he has returned after a 7 year absence. This tournament will culminate in a month. There will be plenty of time after that to challenge for the title. Why would he want to be in that scene in kayfabe, when he doesn't feel ready to challenge the top guys yet? One loss will set him back so far, much further back than if he waits and gets in his groove. AEW don't do rematches for titles. He might not get another shot again for a long time after that. I also don't see how Tony Khan's presentation of him is misleading. He is the biggest wrestling star right now. His return was the biggest thing in wrestling in years. All of that is true. They also never pretended that he was in the best shape of his life, that he was immediately going to wrestle for the title. He said in his first promo back that he has time. He has been saying since he came back that he will challenge for the title when he is ready. And because he is the biggest star in wrestling, he can afford to call his shots. Again, we see that with MMA too. Hell, Ali didn't immediately challenge for the world title after he returned from exile.

Bret was coming off the hottest angle in wrestling a month before his debut, an angle that had inadvertently made him the biggest face in wrestling. CM Punk had not wrestled prior to this for 7.5 years, and he had spent a year prior to that very much out of the title picture. This is nothing like Bret in WCW at all.

I get that, but he has acknowledged and explained why he is not wrestling for the title or attempting to go for the title yet. He thinks he is not ready to hang with the top guys. It is possible for the biggest star to not be ready for the top prize in the sport. It is not an ideal situation, certainly, but not an infeasible one. We see that sometimes in MMA too. He will collect some wins like he is doing and then one hot program will have him ready for a title shot. I do wish he would keep coming out every week with his music and entire entrance just to do commentary though. That can get really old really quickly. There's no reason why that can't just be a live crowd thing only.

Well that's very stupid. Why would you try to outsmart on the mic the guy who pretty much turned cutting back-and-forth promos involving witty zingers and burns into a fine art. And why would you brag about it. TBH, what Rock said to Nash wasn't very different from the stuff Rock would say to pretty much every wrestler he would feud with, unless there were other promos that I have missed. Has Nash ever spoken publicly about it? God knows he has done 10,000 shoot interviews in his life.

I had heard that he had punked out both JBL and Hayes when they did their usual racist/bullying shit, to the point they were scared for their lives.

Punk has also said on commentary and in interviews that he doesn't think he is ready to challenge for the world title yet and he is working towards that by picking wins and getting better in kayfabe, which is exactly what he is doing. He has made it clear that he doesn't think he can hang with the top guys yet. There are many many wrestlers in AEW that are not in the eliminator tournament, should they all quit? I get not liking happy Punk but this just seems complaining for the sake of complaining.

Nice, a new finisher for Bryan

Bobby Fish is very very mid

Let's not forget how awesome this man is -