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Everything posted by Jetlag
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Why does puro get so much love? Why does lucha get so dismissed?
Jetlag replied to Grimmas's topic in Pro Wrestling
I'd say his bar isn't low, it's just different. He really likes spotty shit with a hot crowd and has no problem giving **** 1/2 to a shitty Volador Jr. spotfest and *** 1/4 to the Blue Panther mat wrestling match. Just like he rated those Hansen-Misawa matches lower than Kobashi/Williams. He freely admits that his ratings are subjective and he forgets about them half the time. Anyone who takes his ratings dead seriously is a moron. So I just can't understand why you call his opinions part of a "problem". Keep in mind fucking Bryan Danielson doesn't have a single Meltzer rated 5 star match. -
Why does puro get so much love? Why does lucha get so dismissed?
Jetlag replied to Grimmas's topic in Pro Wrestling
Cool. So what if Meltz thinks these matches aren't 5 stars? Is that a problem, or is he allowed to have an opinion? -
Why does puro get so much love? Why does lucha get so dismissed?
Jetlag replied to Grimmas's topic in Pro Wrestling
This exactly. If you have a problem with his answer, I'd like to know which lucha matches you consider to be surefire 5 star affairs. Because I don't know more than one either. -
Why does puro get so much love? Why does lucha get so dismissed?
Jetlag replied to Grimmas's topic in Pro Wrestling
No he didn't. -
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DO NOT KNOW THIS: The "robots" are mexican wrestlers dressed as rip-off R2D2 and C3PO from Star Wars. Thank you Baba for booking this, and thank you japanese TV editors for showing us. AJPW could have some quite trainwrecky matches then, but this was, thankfully, also a really enjoyable match. The robots do this wonderous freaked out lucha grappling, and Fuchi/Onita are a quite good team of rudos. Come for the wrestling robots, stay for the majestic wrestling and giant swings. Also, it is nice to know Masa Fuchi can add "I punched C3PO in the face" to his list of wrestling achievements. You did god's work there. That was a nice punch combo he threw also.
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- Masanobu Fuchi
- Atsushi Onita
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(and 6 more)
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This was quite the fascinating bout. A long fine handheld tag match. Jumbo was a lot more menacing here than the stooging character he played on TV lately, as he clobbered Kawada and Misawa mercilessly. The parts where Fuchi is in are solid, and Kawada looks real good as he sticks to his kicks, to the point where Fuchi is almost sympathetic as Kawada kicks the snot out of him. But what will stick the most in your mind is the way Jumbo assaults Misawa here, beginning with a forearm smash that leads to Misawa taking huge bump to the floor. Eventually Jumbo hits his big backdrop driver, but instead of going for the pin Jumbo goes into mount and beats Misawa like a dog. Jumbo beats Misawa to the point where Misawa can't get to his feet anymore but refuses to quit, and Jumbo keeps picking him up and refusing to pin him. Both Kawada and even Fuchi run in to calm Jumbo down but he kicks their asses too. You'd except this kind of grit and hatred in a heated US bloodfeud but it worked here aswell. Great match.
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- Mitsuharu Misawa
- Toshiaki Kawada
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(and 4 more)
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Man, where did all the great 6 man tags go? They don't seem terribly hard to do. Just throw a couple guys in who can go while keeping things logical, maybe one or two to give the match some backstory, and let them go at it. Kikuchi takes a big beating including getting manhandled and kicked in the face by Jumbo, Kawada and Taue have a standout interaction, and Misawa gets to look like a world beater whenever he's in. The Jumbo/Kikuchi interactions are especially compelling because Jumbo can believably finish Kikuchi off in 30 seconds. The white hot finish speaks for itself. These days people associate multiman tags with excessive spots and action, but they had the crowd flipping out over a powerslam or dropkick. Quality shit from the AJ crew.
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Man, I forget what a great fight this was. Crazy UWF grappler Backlund was so cool to watch. Easily the best stuff he ever did. Basically Backlund irritates Cool Guy Funaki a bunch so Funaki tries to beat him to a pulp, including knife edge chopping him in the face. Supposedly the UWF people didn't like Backlund's pro style spots (altough Funaki starts working more pro stylish himself), and it almost felt like Backlund was being intentionally goofy to piss Funaki off. He even seemed to be smirking for a few moments. The best part is that Funaki can't seem to crack Backlund. I loved how Backlund would take a beating, but seemingly toy around and then fuck Funaki up with a single blow. Also dug how easily he threw Funaki off and reversed his holds. The non-finish is a bummer, but I can't really imagine a proper finish for a match this bizarre.
- 2 replies
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- Bob Backlund
- Masakatsu Funaki
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(and 2 more)
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This was quite the clash of the titans style match. Picture it like the scene in a western where a big gunfight breaks out and lots of stuff breaks and lots of people get shot. Takada is kind of a slug, but Maeda carries him fine on the mat, and both guys go into standing exchanges as if ready to die. Not the most pure or artful fight, but brutal and dramatic to the max.
- 4 replies
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- Akira Maeda
- Nobuhiko Takada
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(and 2 more)
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This was such a gruelling battle. Maeda maybe a more compelling matchup for Fujiwara than Sayama, because he can go on the mat, and is larger, so we get all this compelling matwork were Fujiwara has to control or defend against him with double concentration. This was slow, but dripping with intensity right from the start. Fujiwara teaching his opponent a lesson on the mat and coming back through barrages of kicks was so awesome. He came across as the toughest, most determined man on the planet. Both guys wincing while in the double leg lock was such an epic visual. The finish I didn't see coming at all, but this is why shootstyle rules: it fit the story of the match, and both guys came out looking like the baddest dudes alive.
- 2 replies
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- Yoshiaki Fujiwara
- Akira Maeda
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(and 2 more)
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[1985-09-11-UWF] Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Super Tiger
Jetlag replied to Microstatistics's topic in September 1985
This is less experimental and outlandish than their previous matches. At this point they knew how to use the nuances of the style they created to full effect. The wrestling wasn't anything mindblowing or inventive like in the match a little more than a year before this and there were a few parts on the mat that felt like window dressing to the more showy stuff in the match, but the tightness of the fight was great as usual. Sayama altough unmasked looked a little more lunatic than usual with how he was throwing himself at Fujiwara to kick him, and they used the new 10 counts to full effect. One thing that irks me is that the story wasn't as sharp as before. For example, in both the previous matches they tease Fujiwara getting a german suplex, which ST desprately avoids, in this match Fujiwara gets it really easily and Sayama just no sells it to sit on Fujiwara some more. That was something that really irked me along with the matwork being not quite as compelling as before. Still, a really good fight that lays out the blueprint for the style. -
[1984-12-05-UWF] Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Super Tiger (Death Match)
Jetlag replied to GOTNW's topic in December 1984
The previous match saw Fujiwara mangling Tiger for the entire match before getting caught in a whirlwind of kicks. If Fujiwara has learned that Tiger has the edge standing, he tries to even things out a little here by using Sayama as a punching bag. That corner punch combo is easily the greatest I've seen in a worked match. He also mangles Sayama even worse than in the last match. Sayama doesn't have quite the mat skill to really be a great matchup for Fujiwara on the mat besides a nice move here or there, it's pretty much irrelevant as Fujiwara is so great at working holds. Eventually though Fujiwara gets what's coming to him as Tiger discovers that he can just kick him in the head while he's down over and over. He dishes out such a savage beating that it's almost hard to see the two halves of the bout as one match as they are so distinct. It really gives out the vibe that the ruleset (and referee) that UWF was using at the time was not prepared for this kind of dangerous violence, and Fujiwara is very believable at selling that he's at a point human beings previously haven't been at and therefore close to getting killed on his not so easy mission. I did love the two Fujiwara comebacks though, one of which involves him stepping on Tiger's toes. So yeah, in a sense this the original BattlARTS match. Really good wrestling and savage street fighting.- 5 replies
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- yoshiaki fujiwara
- super tiger
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(and 4 more)
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[1984-09-07-UWF] Super Tiger vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara
Jetlag replied to bradhindsight's topic in September 1984
This was such a beautiful bout. The great thing about shootstyle is that it is japanese wrestling with high end matwork. Gotch's vision was to bring back the focus on wrestling, and this gave Fujiwara the opportunity to go nuts. The grinding, super intense submission hold work here was fantastic as was the use of throws and strikes. So many great moves. This was total peak level performance from Fujiwara. One might have their issues with this kind of prehistoric shootstyle which naturally had some stylistic experimentation, but at no point did they get cute, and the heavyweight vs. junior story was executed in really compelling fashion. Sayama redeems himself for his years of being a spotty gymnast by delivering a strong selling performance. Still, this was all Fujiwara tricks and magic.- 8 replies
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- September 7
- UWF
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(and 2 more)
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People's perception of wrestler's sizes.
Jetlag replied to Memphis Mark's topic in Megathread archive
I don't mean to prod you further, but (according to wikipedia) Crosby is 180 cm and has 91 kg. Chris Hero is 196 cm and (supposedly) 120 kg, Owens is 183 cm and 121 kg. If someone wants to argue all 3 guys are overweight by some standard, they will have to consider that all 3 are overweight to a different degree. Besides that it's never a good idea to use an athlete like Crosby, an extreme outlier compared to the general public, as an example. It's also debatable whether the athlete is a great role model at all considering athletes often end up with shot bodies after their careers. The same also goes for extraordinary tall people let alone wrestlers. I'm sure Kevin Owens joints and body will eventually tell whether he lived at his ideal weight, altough he's a guy who got slammed into mats, dropped on his head and had ladders chucked at him for years of his life so it's probably ridiculous to argue about health risks anyways. Eitherways it's ridiculous to argue that people who call a dude that's 40 kgs above the average male weight fat are somehow feeding into other people's eating disorders. -
People's perception of wrestler's sizes.
Jetlag replied to Memphis Mark's topic in Megathread archive
If you think wrestling fans being mad at wrestlers for being fat is wrong you should seriously reconsider your worldview. RoH fans being mad at Morishima for squashing their kickpadded heros with his fat butt made his RoH run so much better. Don't even get me started about Buddy Rose trolling rubes with his weight etc. If a wrestler is being heckled for anything, and the guy has any brains at all he will use it for great effect. This is not exclusive to weight. Is fans booing a guy for being too old age shaming? Is booing wrestlers who are too queer homophobic? It sure is, but I'd still rather watch Rene Lasartesse than RJ Brewer. -
Ha, this was pretty much a Volk Han blockbuster. The crowd reactions may have carried this match. Parts of this could be found the exact same in a Negro Navarro match. This was the typical native vs. foreigner match where the russian maestro freaks out the young native with his crazy submissions while the hopeless japanese guy tries to make a rally with strikes and some desperation submissions. Could have used a bit more extensive matwork, but they hit all the marks in that formula. I don't think Yamamoto is great like some people, but he did fine here and Han is Han. The best part was really the finish where Yamamoto almost gets his arm snapped, then makes this heroic comeback before getting squished like a bug again. Yoshihisa Yamamoto, this was not your night.
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I like this fine, but probably wouldn't recommend it. It was pretty slow and didn't have a any great story to it to keep things together, but Race put a good beating on Jumbo, and there were a few funny bits and bumps. Also those deadlift suplexes. Jumbo seemed to have issues with his selling here. Somehow I get the feeling that they didn't clip anything too exciting from the match.
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This took a loooong time to get going. Most of the early exchanges are built around your-turn my turn stuff and no selling, which was kind of tedious, and Misawa not doing much. The most interesting thing was Nagata going at it with the Kings Roadians, but Nagata is not the type of worker who can salvage a match. Finally we get a decent heat section on Kobashi leading into a big ol' ending run with all the big moves and cool counter work you want. Still it's hard not to look at this and point out things that went wrong with japanese wrestling in the 2000s. Big moves like Kobashi's sleeper suplex or orange crush are used as throwaway spots, and the story around Kobashi's leg is merely a side note.
- 10 replies
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- NOAH
- February 17
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NOAH vs. NJPW! Everyone acts like a heel! Liger is a disdainful prick! Kikuchi gives a top level performance! Tanaka and Kanemaru actually add to the match! I dunno, this was very enjoyable. Liger pummels the hell out of the NOAH guys and acts like a bastard, while Kikuchi is equally fired up and takes some murderous bumps and hits. The most amazing thing about the match is probably that it works while Minoru Tanaka and Kanemaru are in it. Those guy tend to be lousy, but they are effective here. Don't be fooled Kanemaru is still Kanemaru and has no presence whatsoever, while Tanaka falls into get-this-shit in territory at times, but Kanemaru hits his moves well and Tanaka heels it up nicely, so their stuff comes across as less dull than usual. The heel moves and chippiness aswell as some really fun, borderline Monterrey-like sequences keep it entertaining the whole way and they end the thing at the right time. I dunno if all that is merriting of all-time classic status but it's one of the better 2 vs. 2 junior tags I've seen in japanese wrestling that's for sure.
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Chaparita ASARI vs. Hiromi Yagi (Sky High of ARSION Title, 12/11) Common ARSION, give Yagi something to do! But they clip this to shit. We get to see all the spectacular moves, and damn these two have spectacular moves. Flash submissions and highspots. There seemed to be some selling going on between all the killer moves, but we just didn't get to see it. Travesty. Michiko Ohmukai/Magnum TOKYO vs. Mikiko Futagami/Sumo Fuji (12/11) Toryumon invades. Match was mostly hick comedy with Futagami and Fuji perving on their opponents. Yes, they clipped the previous Yagi/ASARI match so we get to see Fuji teaching Futagami the Sumo Stance and Futagami and TOKYO kissing! How's that for you fangirls! The rest of the match was pretty much Toryumon style. A bunch of pretty moves pasted together. The highlight of the bout was the Ohmukai/Tokyo double entrance, with them wearing matching fescennine outfits.
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I wish we had more Van Buyten in general. He was already in his mid 40s when the 80s came around. Also keep in mind he was paralyzed for a good chunk of the 70s, and looking at the way he flew over the top rope here kind of gives you an idea why.
- 4 replies
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- Isamu Teranishi
- Andre The Giant
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So so fun. I have no clue where these chunky japanese middleweights learned to do these graceful, floating moves, but I will watch and enjoy. I want to call this state of the art, but for all we know this kind of match could have been done 20 years before in Peru. Whatever. These guys have really great execution and work almost like luchadores, with the swank rope climbing takeovers and spaceman armdrags and whatnot. They also slap the shit out of eachother! Animal takes a painful looking bump! Nearfall-ladden finishing stretch! For a workrate juniors match this was quite a joy to watch.
- 1 reply
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- 1973
- Mighty Inoue
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(and 2 more)
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A trios from 1972! Easily one of the funnest matches ever. Whoever booked the near-midget Ali Bey on the same team as Andre had some serious saviness. We start off with some swank technical work between Van Buyten and Teranishi, but soon shenanigans from the apron involving Andre ensue. The interactions between Van Buyten and Andre are solid gold. The wrestling isn't much worse - Andre bumps big! Ali Bey has some hilarious selling, including constantly hitting his head against things! Sugiyama is another hilarious character, and only tagged in for about 3 minutes. Teranishi does the bulk of the work for his team (probably for the better) and gets to look really slick. But the dedication Andre and Franz have to miscommunication spots is something else here. Andre is just incomparable. At one point, Franz keeps getting flung over the top rope to the outside, onto Andre and then back inside. It leads to Franz taking a huge bump to the outside. I like how the foreign heels still remain dangerous despite being total knobheads, as Andre finishes opponents off in a matter of minutes. So yeah, great match that will have you in stitches if you have an ounce of humor in you. One of my favourites from Andre, good showcase for Teranishi, and so cool to see what Franz could do when he wasn't playing babyface. A must watch.
- 4 replies
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- Isamu Teranishi
- Andre The Giant
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This was long, slow and had a lot of holds, so not for the faint of the heart. However, I enjoyed this. It delivered the kind of big guy clobbering you want from a Gordy/Hansen match and was the type of hard fought bout I like. Gordy injuring his arm by trying to a elbow a charging Hansen was a nifty spot and lead to some strong limb psychology. A deseperate Gordy hammering away at Hansen was really good. Eventually Steve Williams runs in to help fix Gordy's elbow. You see, he is a doctor after all! It leads to some amusing bits where Hansen and Gordy try to catch an elbow pad, and Williams plays into the finish in a unique way. Fun match.
- 2 replies
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- Stan Hansen
- Terry Gordy
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(and 2 more)
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Just the last 10 or so minute of what looked like a solid match. The highlight was easily Kawada and Kabuki waffling eachother. Also, Inoue gets the snot beaten out of him by the young punks but wins with flash rollup, which is one of my favourite things. Other than that this was mostly a flurry of moves.