DMJ

Anyone got a good comparison for Mark Henry? I'm thinking something to do with a guy who, after some weak earlier years, came into his own and became an All-Star caliber player some time around his 10th season in the league. Tyson Chandler maybe? High draft pick (Henry had that big post-Olympics contract) but ended up bouncing between a number of teams (just like Henry bounced through a number of gimmicks/stables/turns) before winning an NBA Championship in 2011 (Henry won the WHC in 2011).

He's that rock band that has sold millions of records...but I don't know a single person who owns one. He's also the rock band that other rock bands seem to think is great, while the rest of us scratch our heads and don't think its anything special.

I've only been rating matches since getting the Network last year, so, this is definitely not a very accurate picture of everything I've seen (and also one that, like anyone's list, is purely subjective), but here goes, straight from my database: ***** The Rock vs. Steve Austin (WrestleMania XIX) War Games Match (WrestleWar 92) Sting vs. Vader (Starrcade 92) The Dudleys vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardy Boys (WrestleMania XVII) The Rock vs. Steve Austin (WrestleMania XVII) ****1/2 (I don't do quarter stars in my database) Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle (WrestleMania XIX) Ambrose, Rollins, and Reigns vs. Triple H, Orton, and Batista (Extreme Rules 2014) Vader vs. Koloff (H. Havoc 92) Vader vs. Sting (Gr. Amer. Bash 92) Ricky Steamboat vs. Rick Rude (SuperBrawl II) Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Spring Stampede 94’) Dustin Rhodes vs. Bunkhouse Buck (Spring Stampede 94’) Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne vs. The Nasty Boys (Spring Stampede 94’) Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan vs. The Nasty Boys (Slamboree 94’) Austin vs. Steamboat (Bash at the Beach 94’) Triple H vs. Austin (No Way Out 2001) (3 Stages of Hell) Triple H vs. Undertaker (WrestleMania XVII) Sting vs. Vader (Fall Brawl 94’) Cena vs. Lesnar vs. Rollins (Royal Rumble 2015) Cena vs. Daniel Bryan (SummerSlam 2013) Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho (WrestleMania XIX) My biggest takeaway is that Spring Stampede 94' owned.

I haven't listened to it, but what else was she supposed to say? "No, I don't understand the business." Obviously, she can't say that either. I don't think she needed to say "I have no clue what I'm doing," but there is zero humility in her tone or words. Compare that to William Regal, who, on Jericho's podcast, admits he "never drew a dime" and that, despite wrestling for a long time before coming to the WWE, didn't feel like he learned the style of "WWE wrestling" for years into his tenure there. If Dixie had just once admitted that there have been bumps in the road and that the reason for those bumps was that it is difficult to navigate the waters of running a wrestling promotion, I'd respect that. Instead, she admits things haven't been smooth, but puts none of the blame on her own management skills and unfamiliarity with the business. Instead, she just says the market isn't good. Well, duh, but knowing the market wasn't good, was it wise to bring in so many high-priced talents? Was it wise to run live against RAW before the product was hot? Was it wise to try to bring back ECW for the umpteenth time thinking there was money in it that McMahon hadn't already gotten to? She had a chance to own up to how difficult her job is, but instead, says she had it all figured out in 18 months. If that's true, she doesn't come off as intelligent, she comes off as utterly incompetent.

Here's another story from my past, this would be around 97'-99', I was between 13-15. My middle school/high school friends and I are big wrestling fans, it is the Attitude Era, and we think we discovered the lost city of Atlantis when we came upon Lords of Pain and start reading news and rumors (and Tito's Phat Daily Column). We learn that RAW is coming to Cleveland and we are pumped! We also learn, via the internet, that Road Dogg will be making his return to WWE after a brief stint in rehab on that night. And so I bring a sign that reads "Road Dogg Fears Sobriety" (in the tradition of the "Sabu Fears Taz" and "_____ Fears ____" signage that was popular at the time). We also happen to be sitting along the TV side of the entrance ramp. Road Dogg comes out to a huge response, goes into his "Oh You Didn't Know?" speech and, very audibly, on TV, says "What's that sign say?," a clear reference to my sign, which me and my idiot tweenage friends were holding. Dick move by me if he really was just coming out of rehab. My bad, Road Dogg! If you don't believe me, this is documented. I'm not sure what RAW it is, but it would be sometime between 97' and 99', at Cleveland's Gund Arena (now Quicken Loans). There were at least 3-4 that happened during that time, but I do know it was *not* the one pre-WM14 and it was *not* the one the night after KOTR 98'. You can clearly see me and my buddy absolutely lose it as Road Dogg walks by and references our sign (we're the pimple-faced losers marking out along the entrance ramp).

This could probably be its own thread (or maybe there should just be an Austin Podcast thread?) but I'm going to post this here... Has anyone listened to the Dixie Carter interview from last week? I listened to most of it today and I have to say Dixie Carter comes off as the biggest "money mark" I've ever heard. At one point, Austin asks, very clearly, if the learning curve for running a wrestling promotion was steep, stating that wrestlers are notorious "sharks," that there is a ton of "bullshit" (this is on the PG version of the podcast, but he still says it) in the business and asking how long it took Dixie to wade through the bullshit and really understand the business... She responds that she understood "the bullshit" from the very beginning and that it only took her a few years to understand the business. I can imagine Austin hearing that and just shaking his head/rolling his eyes as Dixie, moments earlier, described how Panda Energy dumped an increasing amount of money into TNA with very little of her investment paying off. Dixie's refusal to admit that she's made any mistakes in who she trusted and who she invested in is beyond head-scratching. After hearing her thoughts on pro-wrestling, I am LESS likely to support TNA because she really seems to believe that her management of the company has been good (at one point she brings up how the real problem is in antiquated Neilsen ratings, but I've been to TNA house shows - attendance is spotty and that is far more telling than ratings). So, I was curious, has anyone else listened to her interview? Were you as perplexed by how delirious she sounded as I was? To say that she understood the business after "a couple of years" came off as almost insulting.

The "Benoit is innocent" stuff is conspiracy malarkey. I find that kind of willful ignorance, in this specifc case, to be harmless. Like people who believe what they read in Weekly World News. Lionel Tate immediately came to mind. And, sadly, also myself. Drunkenly (I was 18, but able to secure some beers thanks to a fake ID), I said some pretty nasty things while heckling a female valet at a Cleveland All-Pro Wrestling show (or maybe it was a Pro Wrestling Ohio show) back in 2005 or 06'. I remember loudly, enough for the audience (where children were) calling the valet a "slut" and telling her to suck my genitalia. It was crass and embarassing, so much so that one of the guys in the ring "broke," turned to my direction, stared me in the eyes and said, "C'mon, dude!" I've since learned to hold my Miller Light better and not spout off every disgustingly sexist thing that might pop into my head in the heat of inebriation and wanting to "rag on the heels." Also, just so people are aware, I wasn't the only most-likely-sexually-frustrated asshole saying dirty things - Cleveland indies can be brutal with hecklers, much worse then than now (and even worse in the late 90s) - but it still makes my skin crawl thinking about what I said and how unnecessary and "stereotypical wrestling moron" it was.

What was really interesting to me on that podcast was how humble Regal is and how he pretty much admits that there was a stretch that he wasn't performing as well as he could've, not just because of substance abuse but also because he struggled to really find his footing in the WWE at first. Instead of saying "The WWE didn't know what do with my character," Regal owns up to the fact that it took time for him to figure out how to be successful in that environment - from what I remember, his matches in 2000 against the likes of Road Dogg and Al Snow weren't lighting the world on fire. Really great interview that confirms how awesome Regal is, not only as a knowledgable wrestler, but also maybe as a person. At one point, he says "I never drew a dime" and you just want to shake his hand and tell him that it may not have seemed like it from his perspective, but from a fan's perspective, when you saw his name on the card, you always knew you'd get one match that was going to deliver the goods.

I don't know if I get why mentioning Moolah would be trolling. I was going to bring her name up as an honest answer to the original question. I don't know much about her, but I always assumed/thought that she controlled (booked and trained) womens' wrestling nationwide independently (or with her husband? ex-husband?) but was essentially subcontracted by Vince Sr. and others who paid her to bring her troupe in and perform on their shows. Is that at all accurate? So, as a performer, Moolah is already in the Hall, but as a trainer and booker (if she was one), I'd say she has the trifecta too because of her impact on the industry.

It was announced today that Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins fame has joined TNA as a Senior Creative Team Producer or whatever. Does anyone know how his Chicago-based fed was? Good? Bad? At all successful? I get that Corgan is a fan and I personally don't care what happens in TNA because I don't watch it, but when I read news like this, its hard not to chuckle a little and think of the question posed as the subject of this thread. It reminds me of that lyric from the Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness song "Zero": "Emptiness is loneliness and loneliness is cleanliness and cleanliness is godliness and god is empty just like the ring in a Reverse Battle Royal match for the X-Division Championship."

I just saw this for the first time today and would definitely agree with what others have posted but, and I can't really explain 100% why (I'll try below), I still found this kind of enjoyable. First, I like how, despite this featuring 60 guys, it is shorter than every Royal Rumble (I think). If this match went anywhere close to 60 minutes, I'd be searching for cyanide, but instead, the whole thing runs under 30 minutes. Now, that doesn't make the match remotely credible or realistic or anything, but it certainly helps the watchability. Second, while the first 30 or so eliminations go by like nothing, once everyone moves into just one ring, there are occasional bright spots. As per usual, Savage finds a way to stand out even in this setting, brawling with Luger in the unused rings and on the floor. Then, there's Eddie Guerrero, who is marvelous once he actually gets a chance to shine - first by surviving a cool-looking Stinger Splash that looks like it should eliminate him and then, minutes later, getting into it with Arn Anderson and Flair. Unfortunately, Guerrero's actual elimination isn't shown, but whatever, at least we get to see him do *something* in this match. Third, the ending. It is definite Hogan backstage bullshit not to lose clean, but from a storytelling point of view, I think it works. Does it taint Savage's victory? For sure…but it also adds yet another level of intrigue into the WCW main event scene. At this point, you have Hogan who deserves a shot, Lex Luger who deserves a shot (he beat Savage earlier in the night), and The Giant still being presented as dominant and unbeatable. Throw in the never-ending rivalry between Savage and Flair and you've got a title picture that is full of baby faces and heels that all could lay claim to being next in line (you could even add Sting as he beat Flair decisively on the show and was also involved in the Luger/Savage feud). In another thread someone pointed out that too often, in WWE, the champion only seems to focus on that month's Challenger, as if, for those 30-60 days, there are only two people vying for the belt. in this scenario, you actually had a variety of guys in that position and it made storyline sense. At least its something different. Lastly, I'm going to give credit where its due to Hulk Hogan's post-match performance. He comes off as a total crybaby, but unlike the countless times in the WWF where Hogan's anger about getting screwed was almost always justifiable, in this instance, the way he smirks and the way he mocks Savage, it comes off as borderline heelish. Whether or not that was the intention, it breathes some life into his character as, instead of congratulating Savage and simply asking for a title shot and taking the loss like a man, Hogan outright calls the championship "his belt" and pouts like a toddler. If WCW had bothered, they could've referenced this event as foreshadowing of his actual heel turn 9 months later, but I don't remember them doing so. All in all, not great, but certainly not as terrible as it should be. Plus, hearing Penzer introduce The Yeti, who comes out dressed as a giant ninja (can someone explain that to me?), is the kind of ridiculousness that I find entertaining enough to sell me on the match just from the entrances alone (bonus point for Mike Winner wrestling in a PPV main event).

http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/features/rick-rubin-on-wrestling-and-how-roddy-piper-turned-the-beastie-boys-bad-20150420?page=3 I had no idea Rick Rubin helped bankroll SMW. He must've felt pretty awesome hearing some of his work used in WWE, specifically his Johnny Cash credits.

I just watched Halloween Havoc 95' and there are two pretty clear examples on that show that both fall into the category (or close to it) that Jimmy mentions in the post above. First, DDP vs. Renegade. This is not Renegade's first match, but its the most entertaining one I've ever seen, mostly due to what DDP does - Renegade hits him with a punch, for example, and DDP bumps over the top rope, stumbles over the guardrail, and ends up on the floor of the arena. Back in the ring, there is a noticeable spot when Renegade puts DDP in a headlock and DDP literally walks his way towards the ropes, positioning himself (and Renegade) into the next bump, defying all real logic. If you have the stomach for it (like I said, its actually a pretty entertaining match), there are other moments in the match where DDP is obviously overselling/positioning himself or his opponent to make Renegade look competent. Second, in his first match, The Giant vs. Hulk Hogan in the main event. At one point, Hogan literally grabs The Giant's hand and applies a chokehold to himself in the corner. There's not a whole lot of big spots in this match, so, its basically just Giant clobbering, Hogan selling, Giant clobbering, Hogan selling, leading up to a "Hulk Up" and then one of the all-time most clusterfucked finishes ever, but I'd still consider this a Hogan "carry job" because The Giant was just so, so green and almost noticeably unconfident out there. If you would've told me in 95' that the Giant was going to leave the sport in 3 months, there's nothing in this match that would've made me say "No, he's going to be a main event fixture for the next two decades."

Current favorite wrestler to watch: Diamond Dallas Page Last fun match you saw: DDP vs. Johnny B. Badd (Halloween Havoc 95') Wrestler you want to see more of: Too many to name - I'm embarrassed how few of the names in the GWE thread I know Last live show attended (if applicable/different from last time you answered): WWE TLC 2014 Match you're most looking forward to watching: See "Wrestler you want to see more of" response Last fun interview/promo you saw: The string of segments from Clash of the Champions 31 featuring a Hulk Hogan promo, "Mean" Gene and Randy Savage meeting the child ambassador from the Muscular Dystrophy Association, a Randy Savage music video, and Hulk Hogan visiting the Dungeon of Doom. It is a string of "Tim and Eric"-level intuitional/unintentional comedy. Last interesting thing you read about wrestling: Chris Jericho's proposed finish layout for his match against CM Punk at WrestleMania 20something. Its in his latest book. Last worthwhile podcast you listened to: Austin's review of WrestleMania. Most fun you've had watching wrestling lately: Partying heavy for WrestleMania 31

90% of all the WWE licensed DVDs I purchased. With the Network, there is zero need for these things as most everything worth having WWE-based is available on there (the little that isn't makes up the other 10%). I also regret not trying to sell them sooner (or, rather, at all - they're collecting dust in my closet and have been for years). 8 years ago, the RVD One of a Kind set seemed like a steal at $10...now, I'm wishing I had that $10 back.

Just watched this for the first time. Good-not-great match, but fun to watch. Page's overselling is cartoonish, but why not? How else can one make a Renegade match bearable? This is a carry job if I've ever seen one as Page essentially just positions himself into bumps, but his energy comes across. It also not-so-subtly makes Page look like a pretty good wrestler when he outsmarts and holds his own against a guy who, with one poorly executed stomp, sends him halfway across the ring. By the end of the match, there's an audible part of the audience that wants to root for Page - probably mostly because of how much Renegade stunk, but giving credit where its due, DDP, in a "Ziggler-esque" performance, gave the crowd the best match he could. As I rewatch all the WCW PPVs/Clashes (started at 92', now in 95') via the Network, this is easily the best DDP match I've seen yet and I'm guessing the best (and hopefully last) Renegade match I will ever see.

Fairly recently, and I know he has lots of fans here, but Mark Henry should've lost to Ryback at WrestleMania 29. Ryback started a feud with Cena the next night (that had actually had some seeds planted at that the 2013 Rumble and even Elimination Chamber) and, from what I remember, Henry actually took some time off. I also once wrote a blog post on another site about why Brian "Crush" Adams was the most unlucky Mania performer ever. At WM10, he lost a Falls Count Anywhere match to a part-timer that was about to leave the company (and, while I'm not saying Adams was anywhere close to the worker Savage was, one can't deny that beating Savage on his way out would've given him at least a little bit of a rub). At WrestleMania 9, he lost to a clown who outsmarted him consistently. But, maybe worst of all, at WrestleMania 7, as a member of Demolition, he lost to two guys that may have been big stars in Japan, but who most American fans (especially kids like myself) didn't know anything about. As far as I know, Tenryu and Kitao never appeared on PPV again. Could you imagine the WWE bringing in two foreign talents, for a single PPV match, and having them beat even the Ascension? Again, I'm not saying Adams deserved better…but, man, WrestleMania was just not his night.

I also like Miz. Part of it is that he's from northeast Ohio (he's from Parma, I'm from the eastern suburbs). Part of it is that, after listening to him on multiple podcasts, I do think he's actually not such a bad guy and, love him or hate him, went through a ton of shit to prove he wanted to be a wrestler (bullying from Chris Benoit, for example, sounds like a legit nightmare in retrospect). Then there was that main event run which featured some excellent promos by him - just nothing I really loved in-ring. Finally, and most recently, the Mizdow stuff. The fans may have been clamoring for Mizdow the whole time, but watching those matches, Miz was in the ring, busting his ass, for the majority of the minutes and I thought he was pretty darn good. It is going to take even more improvement for me to consider him a great worker and, lord knows, that baby face run featured some atrocious matches that are hard to forget, but Miz hate is played out to me (especially when "smart" fans bring up how he was on the Real World and just wanted to stay famous - even though he was on that show like 15 years ago and the MTV/WWE partnership ended like 10 years and, in that time, he's done nothing but work hard and try to do a good job). I can understand not thinking Miz is a great athlete/performer, but to question his dedication to pro-wrestling/WWE is so absurd in 2015. Sorry - had to get that off my chest.

Vince by a country mile. He's played so many roles and had so many great moments, he is really THE all-time great Authority villain. But if the question was which one do I want to see on-screen again, that is Shane all day. Distance makes the heart grow fonder and he's the only one, aside from Linda, who could come in and actually be a fresh character on the show.

That particular item is so ridiculously weird and pretty unbelievable to me. Basically, Afa and Sika, with over 40 years of exposure to the business, are total marks who believe that Reigns winning/losing a fake championship is a legit reason to leave the top wrestling promotion in America? According to wikipedia, they won 21 Tag Team Championships as the Wild Samoans. Did they quit these promotions 21 times when it was scripted that they lost?

I've only seen his WCW work, but is there anything Charlie Norris does/did that was good?

Great point. I was talking to a friend about this very topic. There have been some good characters in the division over the years, but since the departures of Trish and Lita, it has been more common for these "main event divas" to only get 12-18 months on top and then taken off TV/retired/etc.. Off the top of my head, Michelle McCool, Mickie James, and Beth Pheonix spring to mind, as well as Melina somewhat (though, she never really got to the top of the division or was as over as the previous three mentioned). I think Kharma, if she had had an actual run with the WWE, would've had the same 12 months, then would've been beat and that would've been it for her. I don't even view this as a bad thing. As much as Nikki Bella has improved, I'm willing to wager the Bellas are coming to the end of their run as the focal point of the divas division. They've feuded with everyone, including each other, and the next batch of talent (Sasha and Charlotte) are ready for their run. Just like Layla has been transitioned into an ambassador/spokesperson role, the Bellas will be in that spot (though with more of a TV presence due to their roles on Total Divas) sooner than later. As one-dimensional as she is (someone else said it, but honestly, every move she does has to do with her butt), I do like Naomi's energy and eagerness and wouldn't mind her and Paige being used as transitional opponents to take us from the Bellas Era (2013-15) to the Charlotte/Banks Era (2016-2018).

Shifting the conversation back to Rusev, I'm kind of interested in the back-and-forth over whether Rusev is underrated/overrated as an in-ring worker. I haven't seen *every* match of his or anything, but I thought his bout with Big Show at Hell In The Cell 2014 was probably the best Big Show match in a number of years. I also thought his Network special matches with Big E. and Swagger were career highlights for those two. Throw in his matches with Cena, which I enjoyed, and, in terms of consistency, Rusev has a really strong body of work already. I don't think he's wrestled any masterpiece yet, but I also haven't seen him wrestle a dud and, for a rookie, that's very promising. Gimmick aside, if the WWE fails to find a way to keep him relevant and fresh, they're missing out on a guy that shouldn't be too hard to keep as a threat in upper mid card for years to come (in the vein of Umaga, for example).

"There were two Ultimate Warriors. The first one died." "I used to watch it when it was good and they had guys like The Godfather."

My thought is that they purposefully tanked hour 3 of this show, not necessarily to hurt Reigns in particular, but just to get through it. Let's be honest, we all love wrestling, but if you weren't at least a little sick of pro-wrestling by 11:15 PM on Monday Night, your appetite has no end. After a well-received WrestleMania and a great first half of RAW, the writers/bookers knew that the crowd (who "behaved" well during the 4-hour Hall of Fame ceremony and Mania and the first half of RAW) was getting restless. This resulted in a 2-segment divas match and a 6-man main event that was eerily reminiscent of the same 6-man tag matches we've seen countless times over the past few months. The last hour of RAW was the pedestrian, store-bought vanilla ice cream (no sprinkles, no fudge) you serve as a dessert after serving several much better, much tastier appetizers and entrees. It was the WWE, having given all it could, asking, "You're still hungry?" and realizing that the punch drunk crowd just needed to be put to sleep. WrestleMania weekend was over and the last hour was just a formality. Cue Big Show and Kane. It was also telling that they stuck Orton and Reigns in that dead spot too. We know they were protecting Reigns from getting booed even more than he did (imagine how much more heat he might've got in a different position), but I also think there was some hesitance with putting Orton in front of that crowd. Was it last year or the year before when he and Sheamus got massively booed in the first match of the show and Orton looked legit pissed?