C.S.

True, it wasn't very entertaining, but how much could the man realistically do as a babyface manager for jobbers? Bobby Heenan wouldn't have succeeded in that role either.

LOL. That was a waste of time for Teddy Long (and the fans), but I wouldn't necessarily say Teddy was a bad manager/personality because of it. He was just cast in a role that was literally a no-win situation.

Are we really calling the useless, pathetic "NWA" Title of that era a World Championship? Shane Douglas was right about one thing: The NWA died - R.I.P. - many years ago.

Strikes me as intellectually dishonest to compare Sapphire to, say, Bobby "The Brain" Heenan or any elite manager. Regardless of what she was called, she did not play the same role - nor was she expected to. For what she was, she did okay. I also didn't mind Harvey Wippleman. All time great? No, not even close, but I think he worked as a manager of lower midcard or comedy acts (Big Bully Busick, Well Dunn, Bertha Faye) but was out of his element when managing main eventers (Sid). The one exception to the latter is Giant Gonzales - maybe because Gonzales looked so god damn goofy. Yet, ironically, Gonzales was credible as a threat (briefly) by laying out The Undertaker the way he did at the '93 Royal Rumble. (Remember, no one had ever been made to look that dominant against The Undertaker up until that point.) Keeping this on-topic, I'll repeat what I said about Fuji in my Gorilla thread: I always thought Fuji was presented very effectively too. Obviously, he had significant drawbacks, but his character was believable and easy to dislike. Worst manager? Not even close.

I always thought Fuji was presented very effectively too. Obviously, he had significant drawbacks, but his character was believable and easy to dislike. Worst manager? Not even close.

WWE.com Poll: Which Superstar would you like to see in a WWE Studios movie next? Come on, people! Let's get those votes for Stardust going!!!

Yeah, but other Thursday night shows (Big Bang? Whatever's on that day) will continue to survive and thrive. Football may be a big deal, but there's still an audience outside of it or in addition to it. And not everyone watches football. It bores the shit out of me. But I get the point: a lot of people watch it. Fair enough. But the rest of the TV landscape manages somehow.

This football vs. wrestling talking point has always made me laugh. How much overlap is there really. Okay, some, but I don't think it's as significant as a few of you and Meltzer make it out to be. Plus, football doesn't run all year - and if I'm understanding correctly, NFL isn't airing the prestige games on Thursday (then again, WWE isn't airing its prestige program on Thursday either).

I had the same reaction. That schtick works the first time you see it, but it quickly wore thin as it kept repeating itself throughout the episode.

Really enjoying these. But just heads-up: there's some kind of formatting issue with the Boss Man/Akeem section of your talk show piece: As you can see, it cuts off mid-sentence and then turns into a giant link. Just letting you know. Really great stuff here. Edit: The Savage talk show bit on the next page has the same issue.

Matt posted what I was just about to. Agreed on all counts.

I watched the first Monday Night Wars episode. I'm not sure if this is the same thing was that was shown "live" on the Network a month or two back and then never archived. It was okay for what it is, but there was nothing new or special. They used a fake widescreen for the old footage, which drove me nuts, because text got cut off and the picture quality was unnecessarily bad. This did remind me of the impact Lex Luger had on the first Nitro and on the Monday Night Wars in general. Without him, people might not have been curious enough to tune in to the second episode of Nitro. It would have been another TNA, where people may have ordered the first PPV but didn't get the second one because there was no hook to keep them coming back for more. Edit: It wasn't mentioned on the show, but the promise of Hogan vs. Luger for the second episode was HUGE at the time. PPV main event caliber matches simply did not happen back then, and one show setting up the next was also rare if not nonexistent. Plus, there was the mystery of whether Luger was face or heel, whether he'd win the title or not, etc. I also watched the Shield/SummerSlam special. Fun stuff, especially about their time in ROH and developmental.

Great idea for a thread! Even though I don't feel any "guilt" about liking what I like and vice versa, here are my picks... Guilty Pleasures: The Miz Haku/Meng and Barbarian (especially their Faces of Fear run in WCW) Scotty Riggs (Anton) as an ECW heel Hardcore Holly Steve Blackman Headshrinkers Papa Shango Repo Man Tex Slazenger and Shanghai Pierce Maniac Mike Davis and the Moon Rock Match in the GWF Guilty Displeasures: Brock Lesnar (don't care what a "natural" he is - he bores the shit out of me in every possible aspect) Randy Orton (probably not an uncommon opinion here, but listen to any wrestler and they act like he's the best thing ever) Adrian Neville (does nothing for me) Steiner Brothers (overrated) Road Warriors/LOD (to be fair, I didn't get into wrestling until their first WWF run, and it might have been all downhill from there)

Did Meltzer hate it? If so, there's your answer. I thought it was a surprisingly fun match - one of the better matches on the card, truth be told.

Cuba Gooding Jr. is a tremendous actor. His career has gone down the tubes over the past decade, but even some of his straight-to-video movies are well worth seeking out. The man never lost his talent. As for WWE winning an Emmy, no chance in hell if we're talking Raw, Smackdown, etc. This is the only hope they have... ...and even that seems highly unlikely.

Good point. RVD felt beyond stale within weeks of returning, after being gone for years. He means nothing now. Ditto for Jericho, whose presence no longer excites me, even though it should (I've always liked him). The fault? Crappy booking. Sheamus is treading water too - and wasn't even on the last PPV, despite being a champion. Terrible. Again, not his fault. The booking and lack of character development may be at its all-time worst. Even in other down periods (mid-90s), everyone had a storyline and direction - as goofy as it may have been. Shit made sense.

This post is somewhat inspired by the recent Cageside Seats Evaluation piece. For years Dave Meltzer has called Gorilla Monsoon one of the worst commentators in the business. I believe he was even voted as such by the WON readers on a few occasions. But I think we all realize Meltzer sets the tone for those votes and significantly influences them - whether he realizes it or not, means to or not. Needless to say, a lot of people disagree with Meltzer. In fact, it seems to me that most wrestling fans online (and off) have nothing but fond memories of Gorilla Monsoon. Meltz seems to think his word is irrefutable gospel when it comes to this stuff - he even criticized Bret Hart for considering Ed Whalen the best of all time "because that's what he grew up with" - so I guess no one is allowed to have a different opinion in Meltzer's mind. Some of Gorilla's positive attributes: Amazing chemistry and witty banter with Jesse "The Body" Ventura and especially Bobby "The Brain" Heenan. His vocabulary. Just awesome. He made wrestling feel smart (even if some of the words or phrases he used were probably pulled out of his ass). Gave wrestling more of a sports-like feel ("He didn't hook the leg!"), which made everything seem more important. I think Meltz once said that some wrestlers complained about stuff like "didn't hook the leg" and felt they were being undermined by Monsoon's commentary. Well, fuck them. Jim Ross loves him and called him his early WWE mentor. With J.R. being one of the best of all time, that's pretty high praise. Plus, J.R. is "A Grouchy Hateful Vile Human Being" (lol), so getting a compliment from him means a lot. , of course. In Meltzer's defense, when I first heard Jim Ross in WCW, it blew me away. The presentation was completely different - more serious and even more sports-like than Gorilla - but I chalk that up to stylistic differences between the two feds at the time. The WWF was more about the pomp, circumstance, and pageantry - and that was reflected in the commentary of Gorilla, Vince McMahon, and others. The NWA/WCW was a completely different beast - and that too was reflected by J.R., Tony Schiavone, etc. Case-in-point: J.R. in the WWF was completely different from Jim Ross in WCW/NWA. When it comes right down to it, Gorilla did a perfect job for the type of product he was covering. Meltzer's issues with him was really a reflection of his larger issue with the WWF at the time (IMO). Too many others - myself included - loved Gorilla and have fond memories of him. Could part of that be childhood nostalgia, as Meltz accused Bret of feeling for Ed Whalen? Sure. But that's too easy, cheap, and lazy to be a credible dismissal in my mind. Bret understands wrestling more than most. As for Gorilla, even if 100% of his fans only love him for nostalgic reasons ("highly unlikely"), that still means his approach worked for audiences at the time. He did his job and did it well. Compared to the annoying, screechy, shrill style of commentary in today's WWE, I think we'd all give anything to go back to the days of Gorilla Monsoon. Note: I've only touched on Gorilla Monsoon the commentator. He had an extensive in-ring career before this, but I haven't seen any of his matches. If you want to add that aspect of his career to the discussion too, please do.

I think everyone is so completely and utterly sick of Randy Orton. He elicits groans from me at this point. It's not that he's bad - he's actually a very good wrestler - just stale and boring. It's almost a shame that he didn't pop the racist employee in the mouth and get fired instead of ADR. A stint in AAA or Japan - or anywhere, really, that takes him away from the WWE for a year or two - would do wonders for his career and longevity as an act.

Can you quote the article for those of that don't want to go to that spyware-infested hellhole. (Don't know if PW Insider still has that issue, but it once did, so fuck them.)

What if he doesn't have a non-compete though, or what if it doesn't apply outside the U.S.? These tweets are from an AAA announcer. Why would AAA's (I assume) equivalent of Jim Ross post blatantly false information? I'm almost certain WWE owns the name though. Personally, I'd rename him Alberto Don Caras (assuming they can get away with even that).

ADR jumping to AAA this Sunday? http://www.cagesideseats.com/2014/8/11/5992893/will-alberto-del-rio-debut-for-aaa-this-sunday-at-triplemania-22 The actual tweets: https://twitter.com/rudorivera/status/498915479613083649 https://twitter.com/rudorivera/status/498916128413216769 https://twitter.com/rudorivera/status/498916232671002626 Can anyone translate?

Playing up how strong he is while doing the move does not mean they are saying he's showboating by doing it. Even during the one match where your argument might hold water, the commentators never accused him of showboating. You are filling in your own blanks and arguing a story point they're not telling and have never told. You're right about the feud though. It didn't continue - and what if, could have, should have, etc. does not magically make that finish work. It still sucked. It was bad, shortsighted, and it buried one of Cesaro's top moves. Anyway, we're over-analyzing it at this point. Has WWE Creative put in even a fraction of the thought we have on this already forgotten match, "feud," and finish? Nope. So it's almost not even worth debating. (Not a slight against you, but rather against the braindead morons in the writing room who can't even figure out how to use a legend like Flair, much less someone like Cesaro. When they get something right, like Cesaro's big win at WM, it almost seems like it's by accident.)

Maybe because of the celebratory nature of the Hogan birthday stuff? But I don't know... Wrestling is in its own world.

Everything about the site sucks. There's no polish to it whatsoever. Some could say the same of the newsletter, at least in terms of layout and formatting (I don't mean content). The message board is a complete joke too, though maybe that's the point. Compare all of that to the Torch, which is miles ahead in its presentation (print and online).

Which is why I love PWO. Am I the only one who wishes the Wrestling Observer didn't have MMA coverage at all?