SomethingSavage

Yeah, @C.S. pretty sure you're gonna fuck up a rotator cuff reaching that far with this new hot take of yours, brutha. Nobody "quickly forgets" how middling it was because, ya know, it wasn't. People were just still butthurt over the Roman push is all. No moneys were to be found in that AJ/Bryan series we just saw, despite a decent outing or two in the beginning (although that was mostly due to Bryan finding his footing as a refreshed heel as it progressed). And Roman/Bryan is untapped earth if they're able to explore the new face/heel dynamic to its fullest. Their Fastlane match was pretty great tbh, and it's a much fresher pairing than another tedious attempt at Styles/Bryan so soon.

In retrospect, it's really too bad Harper didn't get an extensive run with the IC belt at the very least. I was overjoyed to see him win it and get launched into the singles mid-card anyhow, and that Ladder Match with Dolph was fucking aces. Sucks that we didn't see more opportunities for him to tear it up like that. The Sheamus/Cesaro series was fun in its own time, but imagine a world where we got the Harper/Cesaro series instead. ... And now I want to check & see if their Chikara stuff is still up on the Tubes.

The problem with that scenario is that it doesn't take into account the issue of Orton's promised title win at Mania. The whole premise behind Wyatt getting the belt in the first place was a lazy design to transition to Orton getting a big win (for the belt) on WrestleMania. That was the deal to get him to go through with the "Brock SummerSlam worked shoot" shit. But you're right. An extended Wyatt/Harper program could've still happened on the under-cards for months. And Luke absolutely should have been inserted into the title match, once it was plainly evident that the crowd was into him AND he was showing up in those matches on Smackdown every week during the buildup.

@KawadaSmile, I love your positivity and eternal optimism at times, brutha. I really do. But defending shit like the unnecessary renaming of Rowe/Hanson & blaming Bray for the terrible booking of Luke is not a good look on anybody, man. I was digging the War Raiders in NXT. But just like that - boom. They're the Viking Experience - suddenly looking a lot less like a Demolition 2k19 act and a lot more like a Bushwhackers 2k19 act. Looking forward to Brodie Lee peacocking around the super indies for awhile. Here's hoping they get him for this year's BOLA. That'd be the bee's tits.

If the crowd reaction is there to support it (and only if), then I'd actually be on board to see what a Bray babyface run would look like. I actually think a program with this heel version of Bryan could be interesting to witness. Injuries and circumstances caused them to miss the boat on it before. And then I think the crowd would've bought it again during that period with the Orton tag team. It seems a bit rash to write him off completely just yet. I mean, I totally get people being tired of his routine and the typical, nonsensical dialogue. But the guy's delivery can be commanding - he just needs the material to match. He needs guidance & direction to talk up tangible issues. I still feel like he has untapped potential, and a babyface run could be what draws that out. They've invested a lot of time, energy, and resources into developing Bray as a top tier guy. I don't know if you totally toss out that kind of investment without giving it a shot.

Bischoff brought it up on one of his 83 Weeks episodes. IIRC, he indicated Randy had a lot to do with Liz getting the gig. Furthermore, even though they were no longer together, Randy would often oversee angles and ideas that were presented to her or created for her. I know Eric is generally regarded as a bullshitter, but really - he has/had nothing to gain from fabricating something like that.

To clarify, I meant they looked like surefire bankable main eventers FOR WWE WHILE IN TNA. That's a hell of a feat, especially when you're talking 2014-2016 TNA. I know you hate the company and want no part in giving individuals there a chance, so I'll gladly inform you. Lashley and Drew improved their in-ring skills by leaps and bounds during their time away. Drew always had rich potential, and Lashley was basically just figuring out how to put all the fundamentals together. Both did. For awhile there in TNA, both guys were really flexing what they COULD do. WWE, whom you claim "get it right", royally fucked up the timing there. Because both Lashley and Drew have gone on to become very good all-around in-ring performers - but WWE made the mistake of pushing them both before they were ready. Drew had the Chosen One shtick well before he was fully matured, and it's no secret Lashley was still greener than goose shit when he got his first big opportunity. Yeah. I know you disagree and say you don't see it with them in their current WWE matches. But that's a twofold issue. 1) You may need to recalibrate what you view as good performances. And 2) I'm LITERALLY telling you where there are instances of their awesome matches to be found. If you're too stubborn to watch, then that's on you. It just means you're being willfully oblivious; it doesn't mean they're not actually any good. Because they were. And they are. If you're judging them based on 'em not having any snowflake-sprinkled matches since returning to WWE, then I'd say you're confusing WWE's shitty booking and piss-poor presentation of them with their actual skill levels. And that's something a critic with any kind of analytical eye should be able to recognize and point out. Bottom line - both guys looked like readymade, bonafide, big money opponents for Brock. WHILE IN TNA. All WWE had to do - literally - was sign them and put them in a program against the guy. That's it. They were ready in terms of skill. They simply needed the spot and the backing of the promotional machine. You said it yourself. They gave that match, that program, and that win to Seth fucking Rollins of all people. There aren't many wrestlers out there at a sub-Seth level in terms of actually understanding what makes a wrestling match good. But he got the match and the win over Brock, because they booked it that way. Are you telling me people wouldn't have bought a returning Lashley or Drew in that spot? Of course they would. But WWE bogged them down in the rancid swamplands of their awful, atrocious booking for over a year now - and so they're both so badly damaged that they would literally need to go away and come back again in order to regain any kind of momentum. WWE booking is so bad - so detrimental to talent - that they would literally benefit from another TNA run at this stage. That's not even hyperbole in the slightest. WWE doesn't always get it right. Hell, they so RARELY get it right that you can count on both hands the times it's gone right for them. The whole issue is that they SAY they want people reaching for brass rings and shit, but they REALLY only want you to reach for brass rings if they've already decided you can reach it. It's ridiculous. If either Drew or Lashley would be given the push they each got a decade too early, then they'd be killing it in main events right now. Give me Drew/Bryan or Lashley/Brock over whateverthefuck they have planned with Davey Richards 2.0 everyday of the week, plz&thnx.

Absolutely. And the issue with ROH is that it's providing neither. They rarely offer any memorable matches for the critics to sprinkle with snowflakes. And their angles are as bare-bones as it gets. No heat. No drama. No suspense. No anticipation. No draws. I saw my name being dropped a lot while I was sleeping after working a 16-hour shift, but I honestly hardly ever post in here. Because I don't watch regularly and honestly don't do anything to drive the conversation here. But yes. Their product is boring as fuck. To be clear, Enzo and Cass aren't much of a solution to any of their problems. I don't think it was a great or bold decision of any kind. I don't get the impression is was this smart strategy. It comes off as more of a desperate grasp for ANYTHING that might get people talking. It barely registered on my radar. Like I said, I'm probably not their ideal audience at this point - so that's not exactly a definitive indication of whether it "worked" or not. Just doesn't strike me as an effective ploy, tbh. If they're looking to recpature the interest of lapsed ROH fans from that 2002-2009 era, then nah. Enzo and Cass ain't it. Blood feuds. Grudges. Competitive rivalries. Matches with stakes. Personal quests. These are the long-term, goal-post style booking strategies that should be employed to relight that fuse. I'm not saying a hot-shot angle or two couldn't be effective in kicking off that spark. But Enzo and Cass? In the depths of some nothing-happening card nobody is watching in the first place? Yawn.

All's good, man. You'll just come around to the idea that Lashley, Drew, etc. looked like surefire bankable main eventers in TNA. Or you could, ya know, just be wrong.

That sounds like a real bummer then. His creative contributions are really all there is to Hayes' run there. It's not like he was some influential trailblazer for other guys in New York. Not surprised though. Bruce can only speak on certain things now that he's back in the company in an official capacity. I recently listened to some of the earlier episodes to get through some gym sessions, and it was somewhat startling to hear the difference in Bruce then versus now. He seemed to be having much more fun with the concept & sounded liberated. There's no way we would've gotten a lot of those early stories if he'd believed he was getting his job back all along.

Lol. Nothing eats your entire argument alive quite like you yourself speaking in absolutes and then IMMEDIATELY backpedaling on it. Also, it's pretty generous of you to say AJ has been anything extraordinary or even consistent. The Owens series was terrible. The Brock match was decent. The Jinder matches were better than expected. The Bryan stuff was underwhelming. Most of the Nak stuff was very basic. The Orton stuff has been passable at best. I'm not denying that Styles is still among the best in the world or anything. But pretending like he's consistently risen above the mediocre booking in WWE-land is a big stretch and bordering on an imaginary universe. I don't really think his WWE run has been all that more impressive or consistent than his TNA run at all. The former may be more widely publicized and recognized, but there's no need to pretend it's been something it hasn't.

I didn't attempt to watch the show in one sitting and feel sorry for anyone who would. I watched it fresh and in isolation. And yeah. It was fun. I can accept that some people will just always be all LOLTNA and never give anything they ever do a chance, but the whole "he SUPPOSEDLY did something in TNA" talking point seems silly, man. Either watch the stuff or don't. If you're shitting on it without even giving it a fair shot, then what's the point? Really? Assuming that someone is shit, simply based on WWE's ineptitude and inability to book them is extremely short-sighted. It's at least a little ignorant of anyone to base their opinions on such shitty booking.

The answer is Brock. Brock pretty much calls his shots and carries himself in the old Austin manner. If he doesn't want to do something, he isn't doing it. And if he's doing anything, he's going to negotiate the fuck out of it. Brock has been fed up with the wrestling carnival since as early as the winter of 2002, and he's had no fucks left to give ever since. Dude's been vocal in interviews, his book, etc. talking about how he's in it to make money, doesn't buy into the typical lifestyle bullshit, and doesn't want to become some zombie who can't walk away at anytime he pleases. Say what you will about dedication or whatever, but I don't fault the guy. He recognized the red flags early and mapped out an escape plan as soon as it became an option.

Say what you will about the dreadful length of the show - and it was a chore, but that whole Kofi/Bryan deal was magic. I think it's safe to say Triple H's grand entrance game has now jumped the shark. That shit looked terrible & hokey as hell. He's had some cool ones, but this wasn't any of that. What's worse was Cole exclaiming, "HOW COOL WAS THAT?!" like he was being held at gunpoint. I freaking loved the Finn/Lashley match. The big man/little man dynamic is pretty much Bobby's specialty, and this was like an abbreviated version of the awesome Jeff Hardy/Austin Aries matches he was having in TNA. Really dug it. The Demon stuff felt really lame and underwhelming though. It seemed to be totally drained of any cool factor in such a large setting. Maybe it's just one of those things that can work in a tight, intimate environment & not so much in the big venues. But yeah. Finn slinking around the floor and dry humping the air like Rated R Edge was bizarre. And the headband with ribbons & confetti stapled to it looked cheap as fuck.

Roddy Strong vs Brian Cage in the opener @ PWG Sold Our Soul For Rock N Roll is an all-time personal favorite for me. Just a high-energy, fast-paced, supreme sprint from bell to bell. It came as a great setup for the Strong turn & title push that followed, but yeah. It was basically just a nuclear bombfest with both guys going balls to the wall. Roddy peacocking & flexing with his strikes and throws on a guy the size of Cage was stupendous.

Per article on SEScoops: "All of my shows sort of double down on nostalgia… So we’re going to get in our wayback machine and talk a little UWF, a little Mid South, a little Crockett, a little WCW, and then all the years with the WWF,” says Thompson. That is not to say that listeners should expect a retread of topics already covered on Thompson’s other shows. Rather, says Thompson, JR’s unique wrestling journey will provide for a wealth of new ground to cover. “It’s sort of the Something To Wrestle format, but nobody’s traveled the road that [JR] did,” Thompson says.

There was a super brief period in the summer of 2017 where the pushes of Joe and Braun had brought me back to the idea of trying to watch Raw. It didn't last long, but it felt like they were onto something with those two guys being presented as something special. Braun, in particular, felt like a hot commodity. I firmly believe he could've been something substantial. The Brock match at No Mercy was a critical point, but the irreparable damage came last year with the Mania pee wee league tag, the multiple losses, and the ill-advised turn.

Ehh. Steph was the MVP of that awful Seth/Hunter "grudge match." And she was pretty aces with her involvement in the Bryan/HHH match also.

There's another Everett match (after his return to PWG following the injury absence) with either Swann or Ricochet. I *believe* there was also a tag in the DDT4 with Lee & Everett vs. Inner City Machine Guns, which is why I can't recall off the top of my head who he faced in that singles. I want to say it was Swann though. I just remember it being bonkers with a frantic finishing sequence. I need to go back and watch some of that stuff now that we're talking about it. EDIT: Yeah. The tag happened at DDT4 in 2015, and then the singles was Swann/Everett at Threemendous.

If they're so hell-bent on keeping Mania loaded with 12 to 15 matches & everyone participating, then yeah. I'd prefer it to become an All Star Weekend type deal. Split it into two separate shows on back-to-back nights. Both shows will draw, because we've already seen that people are in town for most of the week & willing to attend EVERYTHING. Sure, some folks may be forced to choose one event OR the other. But they could always just be sure to balance the two cards enough so that there's a chance or something significant enough happening on both nights. The FOMO will put most of the people there for both nights.

Young Bucks have a truckload of super fun spotfests from PWG - practically any of their straight up tag team matches, plus all their 6/8 man tags along with their fellow Mount Rushmore mates. The Candice/Joey blow-off is pure joy. The tag against Jack Evans & Angelico is fucking wild. Ditto for their match against Trevor Lee & Andrew Everett. The three way with the Super Smash Bros & Dojo Bros is tremendous. And on & on.

Hey. Hey, guys. Simmer down. The reference to Omega was about his pretentious "I'm going to change the business by having great matches" talking point. If he does change anything, it won't be by way of great matches. That's not what attracts attention from anybody outside the bubble. End of. I like Omega just fine. It's not like he's Davey or Seth or anything.

Living and dying by movez and match ratings sounds like a surefire route to failure. Characters make connections. Personalities get over. Thinking that it's about movez or match quality is some Kenny Omega level shit. Nobody is going to "change wrestling" by having 5 star matches or whateverthefuck. Seth Rollins has indie cred & does some spectacular, super athletic shit. And he pops & wows the crowd. Problem is - he has zero character. And so those pops are surrounded by silence or even active chants of, "BORING!" Because there's no there there. It's all motion & zero emotion. Pro wrestling thrives when it's about emotion. That's why things like Kofi's triumph and the Miz stuff were the highlights of Mania. That's why Kofi's role as Challenger was infinitely more interesting & engaging than anything surrounding Seth Rollins. That's why people get over. This time-killing, all-filler approach to pro wrestling is such an unappealing quality within modern wrestling. It isn't in everything, but it's abundant for sure. It's lazy and easy though. And when you're obligated to produce so much content, it's an easy trap to get caught up in. But yeah. It's easy to understand why fans are so disenchanted by it all. There's a serious lack of consistency, logic, and characterization. That shit is KEY. It's essential in any form of storytelling. Wrestling just for the sake of movez and fake fighting is fucking awful. I don't care if it's supposedly "six star" action or what. If there's no reason to care, it's all just masturbatory motion - for no rhyme or reason.

It really is the most boring, nothing happening wrestling promotion on the planet. They're benefiting huge from the independent boom we're all experiencing, but I couldn't be paid to pay attention to anything they're doing. Zzzzz.

Right there with ya, brutha. I'm at work tonight & staying up to speed through this thread. Getting a good idea of what I want to watch in full & what I can skim right past.