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Everything posted by GOTNW
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[2017-06-11-NJPW-Dominion] Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega
GOTNW replied to ShittyLittleBoots's topic in June 2017
I started watching from the beginning of the finishing stretch (which might as well have been the entire second half, a little before Okada hit the first Rainmaker). It was a lot more digestable having the match in the background while I was doing stuff and just checking in when they stopped laying around, and New Japan adopting WWE-style replays made this type of watching even easier as I didn't miss anything. I think they made a good booking decision, I quite like the lose>draw>win pattern where one wrestler gradually gets the other's number, it's the same one they used with Tanahashi vs Mutoh. Omega winning felt like too much of a foregone conclusion, and a tittle defence here will only add to Okada's aura. That said, I wasn't really impressed with the match. I mean, I didn't really dislike it either due to adjusting the format I watched it in (I really watch too little wrestling these days to be able to afford spending time on something I won't enjoy), but while I could at least acknowledge the Dome match as a milestone in modern New Japan style this match really felt like it jumped the shark. What do you do after a match like this? Okada did like 15 Rainmakers, for the last 15 minutes almost every transition was either a Dropkick or a Running Knee and was based on "you think he's going to go for a finisher attempt after this! no!, the other wrestler is going to pop up and hit his move" and so it went and repetead over and over again. Both guys looked like they have never been in a fight in their life, and the match lacked any kind of natural flow or consequentialism. What, Okada hits three Rainmakers and he's going to take pity on Omega instead of going for the cover? Jesus Christ. Nothing says "I am a professional athlete who wants to win" like that. There were moments of legitimately good wrestling in there-like when Okada was trying to crawl his way out of an Electric Chair. Maybe in ten years when they can't do so many Dragon Suplexes and Dropkicks they'll put more emphasis on the struggle beyond "I am in danger of being hit with a finisher". There were some fun spots and interesting ideas, but I wasn't convinced I should pay full attention, let alone it was greatness I was missing. -
"It's a stupid list about fake fighting, treat it like a fun project and a chance to learn about wrestling you don't know and not a competition in being a mark"
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[2017-05-10-WWE-NXT] Hideo Itami vs Roderick Strong
GOTNW replied to ShittyLittleBoots's topic in May 2017
Some very solid grappling at the start! This is a weird match-it feels like the restrictions here are more damning because of the nature of the layout than anything they're *allowed* to do. Usually in a match like this the strongest parts would revolve around stiffness, it't not like it wasn't present here, I like the Jumbo-esque Forearms to the body Itami's added, but they're more "Chris Jericho does a chop or two before an irish whip and moving on with the action" then they are the sequences you'd want from these two. There are some glimpses of it when they start exchanging blows in the corner and even in the middle of the ring-but if you think about it more those spots aren't anything more but an extension of what you'd see in a Cena vs Punk or a Rock vs Austin match, just with the better quality of striking masking the origins of the spots at first. Sure, Strong countering Itami's corner kick with a backbreaker is an amazing spot-but nothing in the match really goes beyond "hey, that looks cool". In fact, they end up relying on cliched transitions (running into a kick into a corner, chinlock>jawbreaker and so on) and kinda just getting their stuff in at the end with lots of 2 counts. ***- 1 reply
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- hideo itami
- kenta
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(and 1 more)
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Of all the pro wrestling matches that have attempted to feel like a bar fight this is probably the best and most authentic one. There is nothing technical or pretty about their takedowns, nor do they possess msome impeccable boxing technique-it doesn't feel like a sport or a fake fight, but a real grudge. The match is deprived of any theatrics-while someone would usually jump in the air for Lawler's punches, here Snowman either pushes him away, down, or, when escaping, sells them by just checking his teeth. Suddenly cornering and pushing someone onto the ropes become these huge, important moments. The strong fundamentals behind their offence make you buy into the action while the chaos and the clinches allow them to carry the feel of danger without needing to go full Battlarts with the stiffness to achieve the same effect. ****
- 16 replies
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- USWA
- Memphis TN
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[2017-05-20-WWE-NXT Takeover: Chicago] Bobby Roode vs Hideo Itami
GOTNW replied to ShittyLittleBoots's topic in May 2017
This was really good. I don't follow NXT closely enough to know whether Roode's finally figured out how to wrestle as a heavyweights or he just meshed surprisingly well with Itami, but I was positively surprised at how well he played his role. This match accomplished everything it needed to-it showcased Itami as a threat while keeping Roode strong. Roode did a really good job of using simple offence like clotheslines, necbreakers as well as his surroundings like the ring ropes-everything he did looked crisp and tight, and it made for a good dynamic-Roode's essentially using Triple H style offence, and it only makes sense it works on a much smaller opponent like Itami. For Itami to overcome Roode and the size difference he really has to lay his stuff in and utiilize them to their full extent. The injury angles were ok-essentially they were just another tool in achieving delayed gratification, and allowing them to tease and protect their biggest moves as much as possible. Spots like Itami collapsing on a Go 2 Sleep and an opponent rolling out of the ring after being hit with a finisher aren't anything new, but the focused manner in which they were all connected here was an interesting adaption, and probably the first time Itami's dedicated so much to limbwork in that extent. Roode holding onto the DDT and hitting another was a nice touch and fit into nicely into the narrative of the match, but this needed something more than a finisher getting countered into a finisher to close-off as a great match. ***3/4- 6 replies
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- bobby roode
- hideo itami
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(and 1 more)
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No point in discussing who the best one is since it's obviously Tenryu But I thought I'd make for a fun topic. There's also Taue obviously, as well as Rikioh and Wajima, Akebono (duh) and a few others I'm probably forgetting.
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Neat sprint. Hayashi's willingnes to just throw himself straight to the floor on a missed dive and into a chair on the irish whip were something else, but he also threw some good punches in his opening onslaught and did a very good job of selling the back in the position where he basically has to rely on highspots if he wants to win. As for Raven, the mike shots he hid Hayashi with were surprisingly violent and his DDT looked nice. ***1/4
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This match is so dumb. Essentially it's as generic as a lucha showcase match on Nitro match gets, there are several moments where the bad cooperation is just too obvious (like the Russian Legsweep), no one in the crowd cares and they do nothing to win them over, most of the spots aren't that impressive and those that are (like a Frankensteiner off the guardrail getting countered onto a frenking Powerbomb on the floor) are quickly neutralizied by dumb stuff like following that up with another dive, a DDT and then a no-selling sequence straight out of 2010s indy garbage matches. And the match just has to end on a flash roll up, almost as a plea for everyone to forget it ever took place and just turn over to Raw. **
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- Juventud Guerrera
- Miguel Perez Jr.
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(and 2 more)
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A really good broomstick match with Bryan taking Khali's only attribute (size) and building the match around it. All it takes for Khali to get back in control is essentially just grab Bryan, while Bryan has to really work on combos and counters to manage to take Khali down. I really liked how he used the Guillotine to set up his kick combos and how he Missile Dropkicked Khali while Khali was still kneeling instead of waiting for him to get up, and his reckless bumping really put over Khali's offence as that of a monster. ***1/4
- 1 reply
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- Daniel Bryan
- The Great Khali
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(and 3 more)
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[1994-12-16-RINGS] Akira Maeda vs Yoshihisa Yammamoto
GOTNW replied to Loss's topic in December 1994
Very compelling underdog showcase with Yamamoto's fire and speed matched against Maeda's strength and being the owner of the company. One of my favourite moments of the match was early on, when Yamamoto kinda just kinda clapped Maeda's back signalling he was "letting" them stand up, only for Maeda to instantly ankle pick him and drag him back to the ground. Very symbolic and showing of what the match was going to be about-Maeda getting on top of someone and top wristlocking them may not be as flashy and beautiful as the elaborate guard passing of a Tamura match, but it works. In a way the match was essentially Maeda toying with the emotions of the crowd, who rallied behind the flasshier youngster and his pretty stand up combos, and that they did so emotionally (even going as far as booing Maeda) is a testament to both his vision and Yamamoto's ability to make the crowd buy into him. I liked that the finish was as simple as it was too-it really recreated the ambient of watching a big sports team or a player come back just when you think someone's going to pull off an upset. **** -
[2015-07-29-NJPW-G1 Climax] Katsuyori Shibata vs Kota Ibushi
GOTNW replied to Superstar Sleeze's topic in July 2015
I soured a little on this match, still thought it was really good, but more despite the 1 counts and the million forearm exchanges than because of them. I think they got over the dumb masculinity of Shibata really well even when sequences would get more complex. The most memorable sequence was the one where he trapped Ibushi in the corner, forearmed him to set up the dropkick, then went for it but Ibushi followed him to the corner and elbowed him. Then, Shibata just bulldozed through Ibushi, and went right back to forearming Ibushi, but Ibushi followed him to the corner, this time kicking him and "stealing" the Dropkick from Shibata. And I think that doing what they did, with Shibata instantly getting up, getting in Ibushi's face, murdering him in the corner and upgrading his combo by adding various stomps and facewashes made for a better choice than revenging it later in the match. A no-sell spot isn't really that big of a deal in a crash and burn match like this. Shibata grabbed at Ibushi's leg several times in the match, and even hit him with a wicked counter forearm earlier in the match, making that damned slap an extremely fitting final transition, and I loved the contrast between Shibata's hand basically going through Ibushi's hand and Ibushi's wacky kung fu punches that came moments before that. ***3/4 -
Honestly if you work over a limb for an extended period of time ending the match with a submission on that same limb sounds like a disappointing finish. You'd have to either upgrade your submission (kinda like TJ Perkins did against Ibushi in their great CWC match) or have the limbwork include a different type of attacks, maybe more ramming the limb into stuff and striking at it than using so many submissions that target that specific limb, and if using them have the opponent constantly block/evade your biggest one in order for the finish to be satisfying. Considering the main even styles that are in vogue now love milking submissions, it makes perfect sense they would opt to just have the recepient of the limbwork come back and win.
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I think they made a mistake here by not making the control segments at the beginning even longer. Like when Okada grabbed a Chinlock and then rammed a Forearm onto Tiger Mask W's back, you could feel the crowd was slowlly coming alive, and that really felt like a moment where Hayes and Gordy would cut-off the comeback attempts a couple of times, maybe give the faces a little shine before doing so, and gradually increase the heat by teasing the crowd more and more. Here, they just did some stupid cross-chop and Tiger Mask W was in control moments later, and even when he got all of his stuff in they still had time to do some heatless back and forth. If you're going to have a pedestrian first half of the match, make it so that it serves a purpose in the layout of the match, and it's not just because the match has to go 25 minutes. The second half ruled-it was nice to see Okada display a more aggressive side of him, and it's always a joy to see Ibushi's shootboxing background come into play. The slaps, head stomps and punches ruled as expected, but big spots also ruled, the top rope Tombstone tease was a perfect response to the Springboard Frankensteiner that has become a staple highspot in any bigger Ibushi match, and the top rope Tiger Driver was an unexpectedly satisfying pay-off. Even if the Red Ink may be the dumbest submission ever, and his Elbow Drop a classic example of how how sometimes focusing on form too much isn't such a good idea because you might lose impact, I think Okada did a relatively good job of adapting to Ibushi and bringing the fight to him. ***1/2
- 3 replies
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- kazuchika okada
- tiger mask w
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(and 1 more)
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That's it. I don't think anyone else comes close for me. Since we're naming names-Shinya & Daichi Hashimoto and Rikidozan & Mitsuo Momota are also good shouts.
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He had some fun WWE style stuntfests but I have zero interest in rewatching anything with him any time soon. He feels like such an afterthought if you're interested in great wrestling. Not nearly as good as Mick Foley, who, among being a bigger lunatic, at least didn't hammer having crappy offence by thinking up a million stupid indy moves and kept it to some self sacrificing ones and some meh basic moves. And Mick Foley is not nearly as good at that style of wrestling as LA Park, Necro Butcher or Atsushi Onita.
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I'm going to go ahead and say they missed the mark on one of the more important things in this type of match, which is really making the crowd buy into the drama. A big reason for that is probably the first pin in the match resulted in a 2 count and at least half of the kick-outs were 2.9 counts, that's completely against the philosophy of how a match like this should be worked (with the timing of the kick-outs getting later and later and the 2.9 counts being reserved for the finishing minutes). I mean, it's not like the match couldn't have been any better, but aside from that it really feels like nitpicking. I agree this is a great example of how to build a long back and forth match-which makes their mistakes that much more devastating and regrettable. One of my favourite things in the match was that, even when they did the rope running transitions I'm allergic to, they were really good, as Sekimoto was actually attempting a move (and one quite important in his arsenal as well) and Sekimoto would until the very end to sway and grab onto him. That's just so much cooler than countering nothing with a move you can do from some other situation. Sekimoto is a meathead whose COM logic would be quite easy to edit in Fire Pro-you know what you're getting out of him, you know what he does in what scenarios. I think that limits the quality of his matches most of the time, but there's an a solid foundation in what he does, which probably explains why he's such a good trainer. Suzuki really pushed to match in the direction it went-with the emphasis on struggle instead of a ridiculous war of attrition and repetition. Whether it was Suzuki Uppercuting Sekimoto on the Lariat attempt he always does (usually successfully) after eating a German Suplex, Suzuki blocking a Boston Crab by grabbing Sekimoto's ankle and neck and Sekimoto having to earn an opening by pinning Suzuki to transition into the submission, the the sandbagging of the opponent's finishers, desperately throwing themselves into pins or continuing to strike away when when they were floored, this match was full of great, memorable moments and a rare modern japanese wrestling showcase of how I envision great wrestling. ****1/4
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The great thing about this match is that somehow it all makes sense. It felt like two carnies who learned martial arts, so when they started rolling they have knowledge off all these armbars and kneebars and whatnot, but they're still going to go after the fingers and bite and do everything that they used to do before they put gis on. It's also hard to point to similar matches elsewhere-sure, Battlarts and Futen matches have had matwork oriented matches where guys randomly start doing bulldogs and elbow drops and maybe a tope con giro, but you know what you're getting from them. I've seen a lot of hype of CWF Mid-Atlantic depicting it as an indy that successfully combines the traditions of what make the territories of yesterday work with the changes in ring style that have happened in the mean time, but that doesn't take away into account doing a match like this. I don't know whether they've had similar matches before, but this felt like a brave artistic endeavour that more than paid off. The fluidity, the highspots and the feeding methods reminded of RINGS, the randomness and the brief striking/kneeing/kicking etc. reminded of Battlarts (maybe not always in stiffness, but at least in spirit) and the joint attacks reminded of William Regal and Jim Breaks. The only flaw I I think the match had is that you could notice them changing the phases of the match, like there'd be a moment where you could feel "ok, we're doing the jiu-jitsu now" and then "now we're going to go through a few classic pro wrestling moves" and so on. The big counter triangle was based on the surprise that came off using one in the place off the other, so it's not like it was some giant issue, but ideally the match would flow as one. A great match nonetheless, maybe the best this year has produced so far. ****1/4
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It's quite frustrating to watch something like this, because this could have and should have been a great match. It was structured well-had the classic start with some chain wrestling, teases and whatnot, then come some striking where Iwamoto really shined, his short dash elbow was beautiful, it's like a straight jab, such a neat spot. Eventually Ishii hit a sick Neckbreaker on the guardrail, which led into the neckwork portion, and Ishii's work on top was really tight, his knee drops in particular were just brutal. Iwamoto countered a Neckbreaker on the apron into a Osoto Gari, which, like his other judo offence (his Harai Goshi is a work of art) looks magnificent, and that led into the finishing stretch. Iwamoto has great offence in general, he hit a neat Lariat which damn near beheaded Ishii. Ishii's offence was more akin to the stuff you'd expect from an All Japan Junior, but if there was ever a man who can concince you a backflip knee is a viable and good pro wrestling move it's him. The match was exciting, lasted about as long as it should've, they followed the internal logic of the match well (in building up moves or countering the previously established ones at the right time). If only they stopped using the phantom rope running almost exclusively as a transition, they could have great matches. But every time they run the ropes and then get hit with a move I'm reminded of how stupid wrestling is, why I don't want to be when I'm watching wrestling, and it feels really silly to have them work on *everything else* so the rope running remains as a barrier preventing them from having excellent instead of great matches when they could improve so much if they fixed one thing and just used more than one transition, or just had running offence that would make me buy into those counters like All Japan wrestlers used to have. ***3/4
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- keisuke ishii
- koji iwamoto
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(and 2 more)
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Akiyama is a subtle heel by this point. It starts with his half jealous/half shocked expression as he watches Kobashi dethrone Vader and take the spotlights on the night he got the biggest win of his career and slowly builds.
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[2017-03-11-Baracal Entertainment] L.A. Park vs Rush
GOTNW replied to ShittyLittleBoots's topic in March 2017
It's easy to point to the ridiculous violence of chairhots and throwing beer boxes onto your opponent, but there was so much more which really made the match work as well as it did. It really speaks to both the charisma of Rush and LA Park that they can basically do a ten minute control segment and have the crowd eating out of the palm of their hand the entire time. In ring sequences which end in them doing DDTs and Powerslams aren't really what you're watching this for, but when they come they feel a lot fresher and more important because they signalize the end is near. Their dedication to ram their head into ring posts and whatever object they were thrown in was phenomenal. And there were so many wonderful "small" moments too-like Rush selling his own Headbutt, Park's theatrical bump for a simple chest slap which reminds you how old he is and how much bumps on the floor hurt and Rush salvaging a botch where Park tripped by just kind of shootily underhooking him onto the floor. Doing longer control segments allowed them to have less transitions which almost instantly makes them less memorable, but also allows them to put more thought into making them better, and there were some really neat here-the counter punch into the tope which finally started Park's initial comeback gave me Sangre Chicana flashbacks, it's insane a man his age is throwing his body around so recklessly; Rush recuperating and seizing control because Park took too long to get back in the ring for he went to get a chair was clever, and Rush's kick to set up the rope hanging DDT as Park was about the enter the ring was probably the best single use of that spot wrestling's seen so far. So, a great match, lots to appreaciate in it, but even with all it's positives it still felt like there was a floor to how could it could get-it was almost like a solved equation. For a match to do more than just scratch greatness you'd hope for something unexpected, an incredibly special version of the expected, something that really gets it to the next level, there was a moment where LA Park started nailing Rush with vicious punches in the corner where it looked like they could get to that, but then they did the ref drama which negated this match's chances of being something more. **** -
I rolled my eyes when this point was mentioned in a certain match review years ago, but I'll steal it here-to me, this really felt like a real pro wrestler taking on a phony. Negro Navarro is a lucha maestro-he's changed with the times and has constantly updated his offence, but the way he'd done it and performed has stayed true to that lineage and tradition. Zack Sabre Jr. is a total hybrid. You can see he is someone fascinated with pro wrestling and wants to rip everything he likes and create this all encompassing stlyle and whatnot, but as a result his matches don't really have a specific flair, particularly outside of a context that is "indy wrestler having matches indy crowds think are great". And Sabre looking "bad" isn't something I came in expecting to think, since I've always liked him as a worker, but him working against Negro Navarro in this environment really hammered that at me over and over again. Some of it was a 60 year old man looking like he was in much better shape than Sabre. Some of it were Sabre's ridiculous facial expressions and silly vocal selling that I don't pay heed to much when he usually wrestles, which suddenly started really standing out when Navarro was just selling like people usually do in these types of matches. And some of it was that Sabre would hit Navarro with weak European Uppercuts to the chest while the fantastic impact of Navarro's chops and chest slaps made them essentially look like he was shooting a laser at Sabre. For what it was, this was very well done-I'm not sure a one off attraction match could reach the heights of a title match, but if it could this isn't one I could point to. A very fun exhibition of holds I'd recommend everyone who likes the style to seek out, but not something that's going to leave a lasting impression on me. ***1/2
- 8 replies
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- zack sabre jr.
- negro navarro
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(and 2 more)
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[2017-05-03-WWE-NXT] Hideo Itami vs Kona Reeves
GOTNW replied to ShittyLittleBoots's topic in May 2017
Maybe use the taping date since that's what's always done for these threads for NXT TV matches in the future? This was certainly a fun little match. I was surprised by how good Reeves' cut-off punch and back elbow looked, the back elbow specifically is something commonly done as a rope run counter, here he just caugh Itami moments after irish whipping it and it looked both nasty and unique. He still lacks the presence of a genuine heel or a wrestler really, and just went through the generic CAW heel mannerisms that are beaten into people at the performance center. Itami's big slap made for a wonderful transition, and his comeback went as expected. Still it is nice to see a match with a straightforward narrative and a structure on WWE/NXT TV instead of the forced 50/50 quasi squaches they usually do. **3/4- 3 replies
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- hideo itami
- kenta
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(and 1 more)
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[2017-04-30-WWE-Payback] Braun Strowman vs Roman Reigns
GOTNW replied to ShittyLittleBoots's topic in April 2017
It was really cool to see this type of match done on the biggest platform it could get as a nice counter to all the workrate matches that dominate even WWE shows these days. Strowma just runs over Reigns-slamming him into the barricade, Chokeslamming him on the announce table, wrecking him in various ways. Reigns really did carry the match though-his offence is designed in a way that he can realistically pull something like he did in this match-there's enough spots where he can look strong without being required to lift people a million times-punching and lariating people leaves a strong impression, but it's still done in a way that he only lifted Braun once, and when he did it was a big spot that exhausted him. Reigns losing control on his own Lariat because he was reckless enough to throw his body into it was picture perfect. Reigns took maybe the greatest bump into the turnbuckle ever-the thud it gave out made it sound more brutal than when chairs are used in the same spot. Reigns barely getting his shoulder up was such a perfect spot, it almost had a Misawa-in-peril vibe to it. If there was an issue in this match, it's that Strowman really lacks the high-end nearfalls offence you expect from a main event wrestler. The Powerslam kick-out really felt like this big, significant moment-hitting another one and ending the match there left a little sour taste in my mount. Of course then came the great post-match beatdown that salvaged that, the use of the blood capsules was an incredible idea, and Reigns' acting accomodated it well. **** -
I see a lot of insistence on there being one correct way of limb selling, while simultaneously a huge number of fans seem to not care about whether or not limb selling is presented in that way or not. The response they most often give is "you're right, but I still enjoyed the match". With all the progress we've made in creating a community where you can see people who are more open to appreaciating the many aspects of pro wrestling that would basically make them expelled from the conventional wrestling discussion circles, I am surprised this idea still perserveres to this day. I really couldn't give a damn about consistent limb selling, and the idea "it used to be sold" and there's some degeneracy in current wrestling might be the most nonsensical of them all. There's basically no difference between Stan Hansen blowing off armwork and Okada doing so-any differences in how you perceive them aren't based on selling, they're based on their character work, presentation and so on. In fact Okada will probably make more of an effort to sell the arm than Hansen did, and both will use the injrued arm to hit their Lariats and go over eventually. I can think of several matches- Hashimoto vs Hase from the 1993 G1, Kensuke Sasaki vs Minoru Suzuki for the Triple Crown from 2007, Misawa vs Hase from 2000, KENTA vs Marufuji from 2012, Naito vs Shibata from the 2015 G1 etc. where the great matches use overcoming limbwork and sporadic selling and no-selling as tools in getting over a narrative in a match. On the other hand, when I think of great matches where there's a dead limb, there's Liger vs Sano, and I really can't think of anything else from the top of my head. Why is this so stigmatized in wrestling criticism? Do most people who complain about, say, a wrestler using kicks after having his leg worked over know it's actually the other leg he shouldn't be kicking with since it's harder to stand on just an injured leg than to wham it into your opponent? Why should wrestlers act like taking three Dragon Screws makes their leg immobilized? In cases like these I'd say wrestlers working a style that some critics would find more realistic/believable would have a completely opposite effect.
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A really well done punishment match. I think Kea's Swinging DDT might be the greatest counter spot ever, based just solely on the fact I buy into it over and over again despite having seen it a million times. Kea really takes it to Akiyama, firing away at him with awesome kicking combinations. The violence doesn't disappoint-you get an awesome slap battle, Akiyama doing all the standard stuff you'd expect him to in this type of match like a Bodyslam to the outside, a wicked Torture Crab etc., but the transitions are really the what holds this together so match. It's the key aspect of All Japan I point to over and over again, because it's what makes it work more than anything. When Akiyama bounces off the ropes and slows down a bit you expect a counter spot and he just Elbows Mossman in the face it feels really rewarding, as does Mossman counter kicking Akiyama literally miliseconds before he Elbows him in the face. The violence of Akiyama's final headdrops is something most will point to, but I think in a match like does Mossman selling an irish whip into a corner whip as a means of wear down as well as he did deserves at least as much credit, since that's something singificantly harder to pull off and rarer seen than a brutal Brainbuster or a Double Underhook DDt. ***1/4
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- Jun Akiyama
- Maunakea Mossman
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(and 2 more)
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