joeg

So were towns like San Francisco, St. Louis, LA, Toronto, and Detroit each their own independent territory like Memphis? Or were they more like Houston where it was a regular spot show featuring talent and feuds from nearby territories?

Double Dog Collar, 3 Way Dance, and Stairway to Hell were their most famous gimmick matches. Really every match was a gimmick match in ECW but those were the gimmickiest gimmick matches.

Watched the Matthew Justice matches and the tag matches. Fucking insane, dangerous stuff. Shocked nobody got hurt. I'm not watching the Matt Tremont matches as those look like a snuff film. Yeah. I binged summer of 94, so the middle of Dreamer vs Sandman feud. I don't understand how that is what got Dreamer over as a sympathetic babyface. He comes off like an idiot and a creep, a tough creepy idiot, but still a creepy idiot. At every turn Sandman and Woman are able to out smart and beat the shit out of Dreamer in large part because Dreamer is more occupied with groping Woman than he is beating the Sandman.

I'm watching some old ECW from 94, it really doesn't age well. Between the cool music being replaced with elevator music by WWE, unprotected headshots, guys legitimately getting hurt, and babyfaces sexually harrassing heel valets to get a pop, it just doesn't look good. The things that as a middle schooler seemed so edgy and cool now seem reckless and juvenile.

Rey Jr. In 2016 Rey was like #12 on my list and I expect him to be higher 5 years from now. Vader was was somewhere in the 20s and I expect him to stay right around there. I think there's an argument that Vader had higher highs. But there's no argument for total body of work. Rey has had at least a half dozen 4 star matches every year since 1993. The top 4 or 5 Vader matches may be as good or better than the top 4 or 5 Rey matches, but Rey's average match and longevity just blow Vader out of the water.

With all of the hype Nick Gage is getting right now, I was wondering if there are any recommended matches I should check out. I've probably seen a half dozen of his matches in the last 20 years and can't think of anything that stands out as good.

I can understand a somebody who has spent a decade on WWE wanting to do something different. I can even understand Mox and Ryder wanting to do a big spectacle deathmatch against a big name. I don't understand why they would want to work Nick Gage specifically or work a deathmatch in GCW specifically. They aren't exactly going to be selling out Kawasaki Stadium doing this and they are going to be in the ring with a guy who they cannot trust to keep them safe. Doesn't make sense to me.

Just watching the Grizzly Smith doc made me need a drink. I can't imagine what it would be like living it.

This. 100% agree. How often does somebody in any other sport fall perfectly flat on their back after getting knocked down? Very, very rarely. I much prefer when a wrestler sells by crumpling up in a heap or falling on their hip. It looks more natural.

Just got mine this afternoon. Loving the book so far as its incredibly informative while staying a fun, light, easy read. Absolutely is going to be in my rotation for poolside/beach reading this summer.

"Please Don't Die" was the Paul London chant at Murphy Rec in 2002ish. It always happened when he was about to do something crazy like dive off a ladder to the floor or dive off the top of the basketball backboard. "This is awesome can around a little bit later in ROH like 2004 ish.

I enjoy his shtick, but I also agree with @Reel . For the whole shtick to work the people in the ring with Cassidy have to play along. Playing along with his schtick to make it work has made a lot of guys look foolish. I laugh of course, but that doesn't mean I think its a good idea to have top heels have egg on their face to get an underneath comedy act over. Its like the old Lorne Michaels saying "it gets a laugh but is it the right kind of laugh". I always am entertained by his work, but I don't know if thats a good thing.

But he is pushed at that level, but differently than they traditionally push their top babyface. He's not the dominant babyface champion like Hogan or Cena slaying one monster after a next. Instead he's been the underdog chasing the dominant heel champion when a babyface and at as a heel he was booked as a dominant champ. I think the biggest shift in WWE isn't just that their booking is all over the place but that they've had their top titles on heels for most of the last decade.

Yeah, the guys who go to CMLL on excursion always seem to come back vastly improved- Naito, Yujiro, Yoshi-hashi, Goto, Hiromu, Desperado, Sho, Yoh, Nakamura, etc. The guys who have gone to ROH, Rev Pro, TNA always seem to come back worse- Oka, EVIL, Jay White, Okada, etc. That NJPW is looking for a new partnership makes sense. Look at how Narita's excursion in the US is going or how Umino's excursion in the UK is going. Those guys have spent the last year or two getting maybe 1 match a month. And its not laughable.... I could name at least a dozen workers developed solely in the WWE system in NXT, FCW or OVW who are really fucking good.

Yeah but that was due to the pandemic. I would expect they would to go back to running a Smackdown, Raw, and NXT loop every week as soon as they can. And even during the pandemic without house shows and doing mostly empty arenas in Florida, WWE still managed to have over 400 shows in the last 18 months. We could argue as to whether they should have been running that much during a pandemic. But they truth is Okada got less than 20 matches in while on excursion, Oka got less than 30. Evil had less than 50. It shows when these guy come back to Japan that they went away for a year or more and only wrestled a couple dozen times while they were gone. They never seem to look good. Before the pandemic WWE was running over 500 shows a year with most of their regular guys getting 150 to 200 dates a year. If a partnership with WWE meant NJPW young lions were working on half of the NXT shows, that would still be more work than any of young lion got in recent years.

NJPW has always used foreign partnerships for 2 things- getting the young lions needed experience abroad so they are ready for their push when they return to Japan, and the occasional super show. There isn't a single promotion in the US or UK outside of WWE that runs multiple shows a week every single week. I think its part of why in the last 20 years the only wrestlers to do well immediately after returning to Japan were the guys who did their excursion in CMLL where they got work 4 or 5 times a week. Even Okada was shaky for the first 6 months or so after returning from TNA. WWE could potentially solve that issue for New Japan.

I get what WWE gets out of it, they slow AEW's growth and prevent NJPW from potentially expanding further into North American markets. NJPW needs places in the UK and USA to send young lions for excursions that will do a better job developing young talent than TNA, ROH, and Rev Pro have done. I could see NXT and NXT UK filling those needs. However I can't think of a single instance where WWE honored a working relationship with a smaller promotion and didn't chisel them out of talent or resources.

Yeah I never cared for flip bumbs on enzugiri's, but Finlay's flailing in that clip was a bit over the top. By the same token, flip bumbs or flat back bumps on strikes in general bother me. Nobody gets knocked down an falls that perfectly everytime.

When was this discussed previously? If there's a thread about this already move my post there or delete it. And no, Lawler's punches are awesome. Actually last night I watched a random Lawler Dundee match and Karl Kox vs Dick Murdoch from AJPW. The Lawler match had maybe 4 punches all of which happened after things heated up were treated as serious knock out blows and nearfalls. In the Kox vs Murdoch match there were nothing but punches and it took 15 minutes to get going. Those two matches combined with listening to Ross's podcast and Corny's podcast is what sparked this post. But if this has been discussed elsewhere on the board, move my post there.

@C.S. So Patrick Clark addressed and denied the rumors surround he and grooming young boys. Ok, good for him to attempt to clear his name. Yet he didn't address the rumors of drug use or being an asshole to work with or sending dick pics to underage girls. He needs a much lengthier statement.

Every fan can think of a spot, move or sequence that leaves a bad taste in their mouth. That thing common in a wrestling match that causes you to lose interest and think they aren't even trying to make this look like a competition. For Vince Jr. it supposedly is when somebody is getting punched or choked in the corner and doesn't try to cover up but uses that time as a breather rather than selling. Jim Ross has recently talked about dives to the outside in tag matches where both teams are on the floor obviously waiting to catch the guy. Cornette has a litany of spots and moves he complains about but his main complaint usually is when things look blatantly cooperative. For me Its when there are multiple repeated closed fist punches to the face/head and nobody is scratched or hurt. No hand injury. No cut. No bruise. Either the punches are obviously fake or the wrestler doing the punching can't hit very hard. Either way it isn't realistic. I know a lot of people complain about the obvious thigh slaps on kicks. So what is yours? What is that spot in a wrestling match that ruins your sense of disbelief?

Just watched this expecting to love it, and didn't. My single biggest pet peave in pro wrestling is closed fist punches that don't leave a scratch. Two 300 pound men punching each other in the face and head for 25 minutes and neither man hurts their hand. Neither man's face gets cut or bruised until after 15 minutes. And there were over a dozen punches with brass knux before we saw blood. So a 25 minute match worked solely around closed fist punches that takes a long time to get going wouldn't be my cup of tea. It just defies logic and keeps me from suspending disbelief. Once it go going I enjoyed it. However the 10 minute stretch of just punches where they were both selling the accumulation of punches to the face but they weren't bruised or cut just took me out of it. To me this is an example of why closed fist punches should be used sparringly and when they do connect, it should be treated like a big deal immediately. Closed fist punches shouldn't be a way to slowly escalate the match.

I don't know if WWE cutting Drake lose is the right thing to do. The guy obviously has some serious mental health issues that need addressing. Up until he went off the deep end last year he did a good job for them. Hopefully he gets some sort of help.

Are you saying I am such a person? Becuz dem be fightin words.

Looks like I know what my beach read is this summer.