Boss Rock

Have really enjoyed reading this thread in regards to Hart-Austin. I always thought it was interesting that it was a "submission match" when it was almost completely an out-of-control brawl. Ultimately I think I fall on the semantics side where the match was basically a fight to see who would quit first and Austin would understandably want to brawl with Hart instead of taking him to the mat. And I think El-P's point about using the stip to introduce Shamrock is a valid one.

As a match? Yeah this wasn't anything special. As an angle? I loved it. Cena talks shit about the Undertaker for weeks, BEGGING him for a match at Mania. And when he finally gets it, he realizes "Oh shit, I didn't prepare for this at all!" Ultimate example of a dog catching a car. Some of the offense was pretty embarrassing (the aforementioned big boot in particular), but Taker getting his shit in and looking all sorts of dominant was actually kind of cool (then again I've always been a huge fan). In a way, I think Cena deserved better for a Wrestlemania match and this will no doubt lead to a rematch that is long and bad, but I still strangely loved this 2:45 minute "Be careful what you wish for" story.

The first few minutes of this seemed really promising, almost like their Mania 31 match. There was some chaotic stuff like Roman getting launched over the announce table, but then it completely fell apart. Brock gasses himself with some of the worst German suplexes I've ever seen and it basically becomes a showcase of "Look how many F-5's Roman can kick out of!" And who looked at Brock hard way opening Orton at Summerlam and said "Yeah! Let's totally do that again!"? Granted, the image of a blood-soaked Reigns screaming in defiance WAS pretty cool, but it was still a dangerous and stupid spot. And to put the cherry on top, the comeback I was hoping would put an end to this cluster was snuffed out in unbelievably anti-climactic fashion. Mania has had some stinker main events and while I wouldn't say this was the worst, it ranks up there (or down there). ** at best.

Allow me to disagree it is a perfectly acceptable match regardless of how many snowflakes you toss its way.This would be my pick. Also, I dont even think Misawa-Kawada from 6/6/97 is a good match, much less a *****+ match. All of that said, Dave has far less head scratchers than I do in a fraction of the time. Ive had to go back and reconsider my original lunacy more times than I can count. Been there. I really love the Hansen-Misawa matches, probably more than anyone else.

Haven't seen a ton of Gage, but I like how a lot of his stuff is sort of a throwback to old-school brawling. Take the fight outside and use whatever isn't nailed down.

Would have loved Joe, but didn't hate the angle. And I agree Cass was the worst option.

The crowd is pretty intense throughout as I recall.

I personally threw a 5 at Bucks-Lovers, but can definitely see why some folks didn't. It's a long match and gets pretty cheesy with the acting, which Ciampa-Gargano definitely got better.

I believe he's there in an unofficial coaching or mentor capacity.

WWE/NXT/205 had shows on AXXESS using all sorts of indie talent like Keith Lee, WALTER, and other folks from WWN and Progress. Hero challenged Keith Lee for the WWN title on Thursday, and also had a banger with WALTER on Saturday. They did let Hero do an ICW show a few months ago. His run has been so different from anyone else in NXT. They let Danny Burch and Lorcan do some indie stuff as well.

It's an awesome spectacle of a match, but it is a bit silly how many chops they do (and this is coming from someone who loves even NOAH-era Kobashi). You must really hate Kobashi vs. Kensuke... Haha, interestingly enough I really like that one. Like them both really. Just a little too much chopping.

It's an awesome spectacle of a match, but it is a bit silly how many chops they do (and this is coming from someone who loves even NOAH-era Kobashi).

I just figured most folks are familiar with Dave's ratings than anyone else's. However, if there are any other over-hyped matches not rated 5 by Dave we can discuss those too.

I forget which one it was, but I do recall there was an earlier one that was much better.

This was brought up a bit in the Meltzer thread so I thought it might be interesting to talk about. What do you think is the most overrated match that's been given the full 5 stars by Dave? To make this less obvious, none of the 6 or 5.75 matches count. I personally would say either Tiger Mask-Dynamite Kid or Cole/Bucks-Ospreay/Ricochet/Sydal. Tiger-Dynamite was certainly a revolutionary match for its time, but I think it's aged rather poorly. It just doesn't measure up to the later high-flying showcases of guys like Mysterio or Liger. I would think that a match rated 5 stars should be timeless, something you could watch years, even decades later and still enjoy The non-finishes also don't help. The PWG 6-man tag is an entertaining enough spotfest, but nothing you've probably never seen before on a typical PWG card. There's also too much "cuteness" that gets in the way of the more impressive feats of athleticism.

Debuting Ricochet in a multi-man match that he didn't even win is definitely an odd choice, but the logic was probably that it would be a great showcase for his high-flying.

Agreed on Dream. He and Lars were who I was rooting for.

I dug the ladder match a lot, but thought Almas-Black was better. I'd still go Bucks/Cole vs. Ospreay/Ricochet/Sydal at PWG or Tiger Mask-Dynamite, heh.

2015 Reigns was pretty much his marquee year as an elite perfomer, even if to me he made the leap @ Summerslam 2014. I mean, while Rollins kidnapped the belt, Roman was having bangers with BIG SHOW (way less mobile than when he fought Braun, mind you), Wyatt (to this day, his best match was at HiaC 2015 against Roman), goddamn Alberto Del Rio, and against Cesaro and Ambrose at Survivor Series. The Sheamus feud was also fucking incredible, so yeah, I'd say that he's made that second leap before ER'16 I'm not really as high on Reigns' 2015 as others. The Big Show LMS match was indeed great, but I thought the Wyatt feud was a bit of a drag. Granted none of that was really his fault as Wyatt is pretty mediocre, but I thought he lost a good chunk of the year to that feud.

It would be a solid move but I have my doubts that the WWE can be patient enough to let that build for a year.It wouldn't surprise me if Summerslam or the Survivor Series is as long as they could execute a build between the two without feeling they had to have the match happen. If they can do a full build to Mania that would be great, but I'm skeptical. I think an easy first interraction is at Survivor Series as the captains of their respective teams who manage to never touch during the match. That is, if they want to keep treading water with Charlotte on Smackdown, which has been pretty tedious now for at least 6 months. I was originally thinking they move Charlotte to Raw next week, but I could see her feuding with the IIconics (terrible trademark) and Alexa for a bit and then winning the Rumble next year. If they move her to Raw now, it may be tough to keep her and Ronda separate for a while.

I think Youtube numbers are also pretty heavily bolstered by international viewers.

A.J. is interesting as I agree he was already one of the best in the world in 2005, but I feel like it was his jump to New Japan (and later WWE) that really put him into GOAT conversation. He was always a terrific high-flier, great babyface, and top-notch bumper, but his skills as a ring general able to get the most out of almost any opponent I think began after leaving TNA. As for Reigns, I'd argue he made two leaps: Mania 31 and Extreme Rules 2016. Mania was when he first proved he could deliver in a big match setting and Extreme Rules was when he began to regularly deliver bangers almost every single week.

Loved this match. Loved it, loved it, loved it. Just so much intensity and urgency throughout. Black is out for payback and he takes it to Almas immediately. Luckily for Almas, Zelina is there to even up the odds. Tremendous bomb-throwing match competed at break-neck speed. And it never seemed excessive or unbelievable. They both made you think "Yes, I'm in pain. But I've got to put him away NOW". Zelina continuously interfering only for it to backfire in the end made for an incredibly satisfying conclusion. Legitimate MOTYC. ****3/4.

If they make Taker-Rusev a sprint like they did with Cena at Mania this may be oddly enjoyable.

Totally agree on the finish to Charlotte-Asuka, even if I thought it was one of if not the best match of the night.