Boss Rock

I was first introduced to the board during the GWE and I don't really get the "too mainstream" criticisms. Tons of people that I was really introduced to for the first time because of it.

The Red Rooster entry has me in stitches.

Can't wait!

Thought this was a great show. Didn't quite reach the peaks of last year's, but much more consistent. Thought Ibushi-Cody, Goto-Suzuki, the Junior Four-Way, Jericho-Kenny, and Naito-Okada were the best matches. Really bummed that Naito didn't win. Okada is my favorite wrestler, but they've done pretty much all they can with his current reign besides beat Tanahashi's title defense record (which is what I'm sensing the endgame is here). And this was Naito's time. He's at the peak of his popularity and really should get the most credit for drawing this kind of crowd to the dome. Willing to take a wait-and-see approach to this but I'm skeptical.

I agree with this sentiment.

In regards to Reigns, the Shield run is awesome and he's obviously had a ton of great matches. But other than that, I don't think he's really had a lot memorable moments or storylines. Even if you take away fan response, a lot of his singles feuds were poorly booked and didn't have too many standout moments that made me go "Wow! That was amazing!". Not to mention he's never been a great babyface or promo. His work in singles and tags definitely are pluses, but other than that I can't really think of any reason I would put him in the top 20-30.

Really excited for the show. Main event should be great. Not sure how Omega-Jericho plays out, although Kenny's done a good job in the past elevating lesser opponents. Hopefully the No DQ setting means more weapon-based violence and not Jericho trying to go move for move with Omega, which could be not good. Have really, really dug Roppongi 3k. They're so good and the Bucks can be counted on for an exciting performance. Junior four-way should be a hoot but I'm really just hoping Hiromu wins. He seems to be hinting going back to his more chaotic Ticking Time Bomb character as opposed to the more comedic one we got at the end of the year. Interested to see what Ibushi can pull out of Cody. Thinking the match should be at least solid. While Jay White hasn't been nailing the character aspect since his return, I've been impressed by what I've seen of his in-ring work. And considering broken-down Tana can still go at a high level, I think this should be good (but I pray he takes some much needed time off after this). Have been really disappointed by Suzuki's run since his return. Age has obviously caught up with him but so many of his matches were bogged down by Suzuki-Gun bullshit. With no interference, he and Goto should be able to put on something at least decent. Pulling for Nagata to win the Rambo after his 1-8 run in the G-1.

I had Bryan at 8 and Reigns somewhere around 50.

Penta and Fenix are out of the wXw 16 Carat Tournament this year because tapings will be taking place then. However, Cobb has not been removed. Looks like he might be leaving.

Number 10 is still up in the air for me, but my top 9 as of now is: 1. Omega 2. Okada 3. Ishii 4. Riddle 5. Naito 6. Sabre 7. Kento 8. WALTER 9. KUSHIDA Contenders for number 10 are A.J, Hiromu, and Shuji.

Hideki Suzuki is a overall a really good striker. Everything he does seems so heavy and powerful.

Just submitted mine. Feel really good about the top 25, pretty solid about the top 50, but everything else was really tough. Admittedly a bit of a mess.

Sabre was inexplicably bad in CWC (outside of the Gulak and Metalik matches I'd argue) but he's been really good for a while now. This year in particular he's been tremendous, so it just seems like the tournament was a bad fit for him.

I think this is spot on. And since we are on that subject Most Overrated Ron Garvin Blue Panther - I've done a 180 on Panther. Used to think he was one of the Lucha greats but looking back I have found a lot of his matches disappointing. CM Punk - Good worker, charismatic but no where near as good as his peers. Lack of high end stuff outside of the Joe Series and the Brock match. Stan Hansen Tamon Honda - A weird pick since he works the kind of style I usually like but think he is underwhelming more often than not and the praise is hyperbolic. Ted DiBiase - Pretty versatile and dependable but more a solid hand than a great worker. Keiji Mutoh - Wildly inconsistent Andre the Giant - I can understand the appeal since he was something unique but in terms of actual good/great matches, he has very little going on. Harley Race - Mind numbingly boring Hulk Hogan - I won't deny the energy and charisma during his prime but as a worker, he was not very good. Best matches were against Bockwinkel, Fujinami, Tenryu and one guess who was doing the heavy lifting in those matches. Alluding to the point El-P was making, just because someone is "incorrectly" labelled as terrible, doesn't suddenly make them good or great when you try and rectify that perception. The pendulum effect describes it perfectly. Steve Williams - Misawa got a great match out of him in 94 but I find him pretty dull in most other settings. Worst Kobashi opponent ever by a huge margin. John Cena - Still like him quite a lot, great ace. But his big match formula + many matches do not age well at all, inconsistent, lack of high end stuff. Dustin Rhodes - Really liked him in 91-94 but he has gaping holes in his career + inconsistencies + lack of high end stuff. Curious on your thoughts of Hansen being overrated.

What matches have you been watching? Seeing him as a fired up rookie selling his ass off has been one of my favorite things about the recent explosion in AJPW footage. The Kawada match especially is some great stuff. I was thinking about the Kobashi and Akiyama GHC title matches. He was decent in the former and mediocre in the latter but people were saying he outworked both of them which I strongly disagree with. Additionally, the highly pimped Saito match from 2003 was really disappointing. He was just kind of there in some of the NOAH tags and trios I watched. With regards to most overrated and most underrated I got Shawn Michaels, Naoya Ogawa and Hiroshi Tanahashi. Shawn is obviously the undisputed GOAT or everything wrong with US wrestling/not good enough for a Top 500 list. Naoya Ogawa is either an awful worker who ruined Hashimoto or an amazing badass shooter. Tanahashi is the best wrestler of the generation or beyond terrible. Angle and Takada are great picks as well. I agree with the Lou Thesz pick for underrated. Huge influence/star obviously but maybe the best of the Golden Age guys. Some more most underrated picks Yuji Nagata - Has his flaws but has racked up a pretty impressive career with some very strong performances. Yoshihisa Yamamoto - Outstanding on the mat Koji Kanemoto - Not the best seller but overall he has had a fantastic career with good/great matches against a variety of people over a pretty long period of time. Good babyface, great heel. Franz Van Buyten - I guess footage is an issue but he impressed the hell out of me when I checked out some of the Germany stuff. Great seller, all time great babyface. El Samurai - Gets overshadowed by Liger and Ohtani (as he should) but he more than held up his end in those all time classic matches. Some more most overrated picks Riki Choshu - Still a fan but I've soured on him over the years. All his best matches are against absolute superworkers. Choshu brings his intensity and strong selling but it's pretty obvious those guys are basically carrying him because in constructing singles matches against others, he is very, very limited. Very good tag/multi-man wrestler though. Low Ki - Even though I'm a big fan of stiffness in wrestling, Ki is exhibit A for why just because you work stiff doesn't mean you're a good worker. Very dull to watch, lack of charisma, disappointing matches unless it's against Bryan. LA Park - Hurts me to say this but his brawls are too formulaic and that's why none of them really standout. Dusty Rhodes - I really like the bionic elbow. That's about it though. Takeshi Ono - The hybrid BattlARTS style is one of my favorites but, similar to Tamon Honda, I feel a lot of praise directed towards him is hyperbolic. Great offense but very limited in other facets. Love the call on Tanahashi. Not the all-time great Dave Meltzer would have you believe, but a good seller, a great babyface, and even a good trolling heel. Even as his body is breaking down on him he's still arguably one of the best big match wrestlers in the world.

Haven't been watching SDL, but I think the problem with Owens falls on both booking and the man himself. The guy can be a tremendous heel as evidenced by the start of the Shane feud and the stuff he did with Vince, but a lot of times he's saddled with poor gimmicks like "the new face of America" or being Jericho's sidekick. But at the same time, it seems like Owens is often content to go with the flow and have a little too much "fun" with what he's given (i.e. the comedy with Jericho and Zayn). I don't think he's a terrible wrestler (thought he had a very good year last year) but he does have a few bad habits like his over-reliance on the chinlock (although that move seems to be a prerequisite for almost every heel in WWE) and trying to do stuff to pop the crowd. The fact that he has zero chemistry with A.J. is also troubling. All in all, I like Owens and want him to succeed based on the amount of potential he has, but he can be rather frustrating at times. That being said, I'll take him as a top heel in a heartbeat over guys like Jinder and Corbin.

WALTER-Dragunov isn't quite on MOTY-level for me, but it is a great match. Really physical, hard-hitting stuff and the crowd was super-hot for Dragunov's comebacks.

Top 15 (as of now): 1. Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega (G1 Climax, August 12) 2. Tetsuya Naito vs. Kenny Omega (G1 Climax, August 13) 3. Kenny Omega vs. Tomohiro Ishii (G1 Special in USA) 4. A.J. Styles vs. John Cena (Royal Rumble) 5. Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega (Dominion) 6. Tyler Bate vs. Pete Dunne (NXT Takeover: Chicago) 7. Kazuchika Okada vs. Katsuyori Shibata (Sakura Genesis) 8. Brock Lesnar vs. Braun Strowman vs. Samoa Joe vs. Roman Reigns (Summerslam 9. The Revival vs. #DIY vs. Authors of Pain (NXT Takeover: Orlando) 10. Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega (Wrestle Kingdom) 11. Kento Miyahara vs. Suwama (Raising an Army Memorial Series, October 9) 12. Kota Ibushi vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (Power Struggle) 13. Suwama and Shuji Ishikawa vs. Kento Miyahara and Yoshitatsu (Real World Tag League, December 12) 14. Pete Dunne vs. Tyler Bate (NXT, December 20) 15. Kenny Omega vs. Tomohiro Ishii (New Japan Cup, March 12)

I need Mojo to be United States Champion yesterday. Guy is a damn star.

Revival vs. Young Bucks is a match that I need to have happen.

Observer Hall of Fame, two time IWGP Jr Heavyweight champion, WCW Cruiserweight champion (before that title was devalued), J Crown winner, numerous title reigns all over Mexico and Japan. How on earth is Ultimo Dragon underrated and by whom? Hardly underrated by people on here, but I'll throw in Steve Grey and Jon Cortez. I should clarify. I've seen a lot of folks on this site and elsewhere who think his stuff has aged badly and that he was all flash and no substance. Part of which I can understand as guys like Liger, Mysterio, and Samurai were more consistent. But I think his peak matches are pretty dang high and are proof that he brought more to the table than just flashy moves. I guess that goes back to the problem of how we define "underrated" and by whom?

That fallout segment was awful. Everyone needs to thank and pay homage to the glorious inventor of women's wrestling, Stephanie McMahon. And the whole group arm-raise thing? They were brawling just minutes before! Saw someone correctly point out that it would have been like Authors of Pain, Sanity, and Undisputed Era all shake hands and hug after War Games was announced. Just so contrived and screamed of "Look! Progress! PR!"

Ultimo Dragon. I won't make a case for him as the greatest cruiser/junior of all-time and he certainly was inconsistent at times, but his peaks are really, really high. Very exciting high-flying/technical hybrid.

Glad there's a Women's Rumble, but the whole announcement and segment was unbelievably stupid. So, after a large brawl they just all of a sudden put their differences aside because "progress"? Not to mention said "progress" is after years of being booked like shit and being treated like afterthoughts. God bless Stephanie McMahon, creator of all that is good in women's wrestling.

I actually think the Undertaker is underrated. I'm never going to argue that the guy was the greatest of all-time but I think he had a lot to offer throughout various parts of his career. Though his early run was bogged down by the zombie no-sell gimmick and working with less than ideal opponents, I think his superb character work really elevated a lot of bad matches to rather watchable affairs. He was always a guy who commanded attention and no matter who he was facing, I couldn't help but be drawn in. Around '96 or so is when he really started to come into his own as a regularly good worker with the Mankind, Shawn, and Bret matches. Now he was obviously working with three high level guys but he always more than held his own. His early 2000's stuff obviously isn't great even if I'm a mark for the Biker Taker gimmick, but his latter 2000's stuff is full of some really good matches.