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Why did the lighter weights die off in America?
ohtani's jacket replied to David Mantell's topic in Pro Wrestling
I don't know the exact reasons, but there was clearly an emphasis on size in America and a larger focus on heavyweight titles. Where that emphasis originated from, I don't know. Lightweight wrestling wasn't the only form of wrestling that fell by the wayside. Women's wrestling and minis wrestling was also marginalized after being fixtures of the Golden Age of professional wrestling. I don't think lightweights ever completely disappeared from the sport, but certainly by the time the 80s rolled around there was a lot of pressure on lighter weight wrestlers to bulk up. I don't think that pressure ever completely disappeared. If you look at the Mysterio that broke through in the WWE, he is far more jacked than he was in ECW or WCW. Japanese and Mexican wrestlers are generally of smaller stature than their American counterparts, so that likely played a role in the development of their wrestlers. However, in both countries, the lightweight wrestlers tried to climb the weight divisions. Fujinami, for example, was one of wrestling's great lightweights, but harbored a desire to wrestle in the heavyweight class. In the US, where weight classes mattered less, small wrestlers also aimed for the world title. I suppose the true answer is that until Mysterio arrived on the scene, there wasn't a Petit Prince level talent working in the States. Some very good workers, but no-one spectacular. -
1948.10.8 Louis Loew vs. Rex Gable 1949.2.4 Al Cabrol vs. Rex Gable 1950.10.13 Georges Freymond vs. Rex Gable Borrowing a name like Gable, I expected someone more dashing, but it turns out that Gable was that most common of grapplers-- the vanilla British heavyweight. Boring as these workers may be, they're still skilled wrestlers, and in actual fact, the third bout is one of the longest clips in the collection (running around 7 minutes) and is a highly competitive and skilled bout. So, I imagine against the right opponent, Gable probably delivered good bouts.
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[2006-12-10-TNA-Turning Point] Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle
ohtani's jacket replied to Loss's topic in December 2006
This was closer to the Joe vs. Angle match that I want to see. it wasn't perfect, but given the circumstances it was as good as you could expect. I was so frustrated with Benoit and Angle's matches in 2001 that I gave up watching the WWE for a good five years, and I felt a similar weight of expectation on these bouts. but I guess I've mellowed a bit over the years. Even the ref bump didn't bother me that much because Joe still won the bout. Of course, it would have had far more impact if Joe had won cleanly, but it's not as though he used the chair himself. He still won using the same hold. It was like winning in overtime vs. clinching it with a buzzer beater.- 4 replies
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- TNA
- December 10
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[2006-10-02-WWE-Raw] Edge vs John Cena (Cage)
ohtani's jacket replied to Kadaveri's topic in October 2006
I thought this was an excellent TV match despite the cage match gimmick being overdone in the eight years prior. Much better than their Unforgiven match from an ebb and flow standpoint. I didn't love the interference at the end, but the marines being so staunchly in Cena's favor meant that it finished on a high note regardless of how it got there. Overall, I thought Cena did an outstanding job of selling the injury and Edge was practically Savage-esque compared to his usual ham acting. -
1952.10.26 Joachim La Barba vs. Rene Bouchoucha 1954.5.14 Roger Delaporte vs. Joachim La Barba I had forgotten how talented Joachim La Barba was. He's another guy you wish there was a cache of footage available. One of those guys who's always in motion and always doing something to draw the crowd's attention. It was amusing seeing a young, skinny Roger Delaporte. He had the physique of a young Tony St. Claiir in this bout. He was still honing his act at this point and was a lot more physical and active than the grand stooge he'd become.
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I imagine he was. The clips don't make it explicit. The Rene Ben Chemoul match is hard fought and heated, but Rene raises Mann's hand at the end.
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Great stories, but it doesn't really mean much if it doesn't translate to ringwork.
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[2006-11-19-TNA-Genesis] Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle
ohtani's jacket replied to G. Badger's topic in November 2006
I don't think this lived up to the initial hype of the Samoan Submission Machine vs. Olympic Gold Medalist, but instead they went the pro-wrestling route and had Angle bleed a shit ton before finally engaging in a submission duel. It was okay but kind of lacking compared to the MMA bouts from the years presiding it. It could have been laid out better, IMO, however it received the desired result in terms of the finish and crowd reaction. Closer to a 3 star match than a 4 star one. -
i didn't love this match, but I didn't hate it either. The best thing about it was the dynamic of Edge wrestling in his hometown. There was a point somewhere in the midway of the match where Cena was leaning into his heel roots, which at the same time was justified because of all of the shit Edge had done to him, but Edge kind of faded from the picture and then it became a John Cena overcomes the odds match. I thought that was the least interesting creative choice they could have made. That said, if you're going to win the title in one of these shitty matches then a FU over the top of the ladder through two tables isn't a bad way to end things. It wasn't boring but it wasn't great.
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- WWE
- Unforgiven
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Not in the footage. I would argue that every one of his opponents looked better. That said, it was the late 40s. He may have been better earlier in his career.
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What's the deal with Panther wrestling with his mask on?
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I didn't realize that there is quite a bit of Deglane on YouTube. After watching some of his clips from the 30s, there's no doubt in my mind that he was one of the greatest French wrestlers of all-time. Even the clips of him training and chopping firewood are entertaining. Then you see Leduc from the early 50s and it's the next level. I've long held Leduc in high regard, but watching him when he was younger has been a revelation. What an incredible athlete.
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1947.10.13 Yvar Martinson vs. Bert Assirati 1948.11.8 Yvar Martinson vs. Bert Assirati 1949.2.7 Charles Rigoulot vs. Bert Assirati 1949.10.24 Felix Miquet vs. Bert Assirati Someone needs to explain the appeal of Bert Assirati to me. I get that his strength was legendary and that he was able to legit hurt people in the ring, but I don't see a single thing about his ringwork that's remotely interesting.
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1946.10.5 Henri Deglane vs. Francis St. Clair Gregory Henri Deglane is the man, who alongside his friend, Raoul Paoli, popularized French catch in the 1930s. You can read more about him in Phil's excellent work on the history of French catch. Francis St. Clair Gregory was the father of Roy and Tony St. Clair. He was a remarkable athlete and wrestler who was successful not only in the 30s but also in the Mountevans era. He had the honor of appearing in the first televised wrestling show in a bout against Mike Marino in 1955. Needless to say, for a short 90 second clip, there's a ton of history packed into this. They only show a few sequences, but the wrestlers look tough and legit. Deglane brawls a little more than you'd expect, but that's always been a part of wrestling I imagine. A nice time capsule.
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[2006-05-08-WWE-Velocity] Chris Benoit vs William Regal
ohtani's jacket replied to Loss's topic in May 2006
This was a good match, but I preferred the blood and intensity from their No Mercy match.