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Everything posted by ohtani's jacket
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Wrestlers who are BOTH Overrated and Underrated
ohtani's jacket replied to Microstatistics's topic in Pro Wrestling
I supppse any polarizing figure fits the bill here. Manami Toyota, Kurt Angle, Tanahashi, Cena, Shawn Michaels, Kenta Kobashi. It seems like Fujiwara, Kandori and Taue are suffering a bit of backlash from folks who dont feel as though they live up to the revisionist hype or that the praise for them has gone too far in the opposite direction. Takada may be the same but I feel criticism of him has died down in recent years. -
Greatest Wrestling Promotion of all time?
ohtani's jacket replied to Microstatistics's topic in Pro Wrestling
It would have to be one of the major promotions that are still in existence, namely the WWE, CMLL and NJPW. Dale Martin/Joint Promotions had quality TV wrestling from 1955 to1984 and they even had some decent stuff in the final few years. I dont think any promotion can compare to thejr TV. -
80s NWA vs. 90s AJPW vs. 00s ROH vs. 10s NJPW
ohtani's jacket replied to fxnj's topic in Pro Wrestling
You need to be in the right frame of mind to enjoy any of them. After watching a ton of 50s wrestling I doubt Crocket would do a hell of a lot for me. But if I had the sudden desire to watch some wrestling promos, I'm sure I could get into the studio vibe and the matches. With AJPW, I need to be in the frame of mind to appreciate all the grandiose things that people enjoy otherwise it's just guys going through the same motions over and over again. With ROH, I figure I'd need to be in the mood to enjoy an indy and an alternative form of wrestling. With NJPW a lot of the time it was looking for the good amid a bunch of counter-reaction and criticism. And preferring shoot style and matwork, I need to channel some of my basic appreciation for classic pro-wrestling to get the most out of AJPW and modern NJPW. I figure the best year or two from each promotion is enjoyable, Most peak wrestling is enjoyable. But it depends where I am in my own viewing cycle. -
Monterrey sure loves to stack the rudo side. So much so that trios matches aren't big enough and they keep running atomicos. Somewhat surprising then that the match didn't get going until the tecnicos made their comeback. All that rudo talent on display but the beatdown was mailed in. It took a fired up Perro to salvage anything from this. One thing that's become apparent watching the entire year is that there is good old man Perro and not-so-good old man Perro. This was the good Perro. He took the energy up another level and thanks to him there were some fun exchanges before the inevitable foul. Perro was still going at it after the bell which warmed the cockles of my jaded, faded heart.
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Antifaz and Dandy still hate each other. This was one of the better matches in their feud because of the effort the others made to intensify the action. Parka and Silver King ripping into each other threw another log on the fire and Casas and Zumbido beefing also kept things hot. The exchanges between Parka and Silver King hinted at how good a singles match might be. It's lucha so you won't get the match, but hey, dreams are free. Casas looked good as well -- another reminder of how gutting it is that we don't have the Wagner matches on tape ;( I liked the finish as well with Dandy showing his wrestling credentials just in case anyone had forgotten.
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Matt D sent me a link to Thesz/Bockwinkel vs. Rusher Kimura/Great Kusatsu from 1979. The action was a bit disappointing but Thesz looked old and masterly. It's possible that Thesz is one of those guys who was a good worker up until the end.
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Andre the Giant (Jean Ferre) vs. Frank Valois (aired 10/31/70) What a difference a few years in the city make. Andre had grown his hair out and was looking very suave compared the last match. Once his hair was ruffled, he looked pretty much like the 70s Andre we're familiar with and wrestled the same way. Gone were the holds and matwork. Now it was cocked fists and leaning heavily on his man in the ropes. I think Andre was already Valois' meal ticket at this point. Valois played the role of a journeyman heel using plenty of inside moves to try to get a handle on the Giant but only really succeeding at irritating him. It was slow going for the most part. I don't mind European bouts where the heel cheats but I expect to see some fireworks. It's interesting because it's early Andre but won't blow your socks off.
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Andre the Giant (Jean Ferre) vs. Scarface (aired 1/1/68) This is some of the most fascinating shit you can watch. It's not just Andre being young and mobile -- I mean truly mobile, not oh, he was more agile in the 70s mobile-- it's young Andre working the European style. in particular, the European style where the clean, sportsmanlike match breaks down into a heated brawl. He's also playing face, which is interesting in and of itself. Andre doing FIP spots are the roots of his later HIP work. He was still a bit green in spots but I still came away thinking that 60s Andre was impressive.
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Andre the Giant (Jean Ferre) vs. Franz Van Buyten (aired 1/20/68) Jetlag hipped me to the fact that there is now 60s Andre on YouTube. Not only 60s Andre but 60s Franz Van Buyten. So excited. Andre looks like a country boy and nothing like Princess Bride Andre. At the beginning of the match, wrestlers come to the ring to greet him. None other than Rene Lasartesse -- in a suit, Ric Flair style -- comes out and insults Andre. Truly one of the great moments in wrestling history. The match is just brilliant. Andre wrestling! Andre taking bumps! Franz Van Buyten being a stud instead of a master. Roger Couderc being Roger Couderc, Who is this YouTube uploader doing the Lord's work? Andre doing the European 'European uppercut' exchange blew my tiny mind. This was something else. I will die and go to heaven if this is a Lasartesse vs, Andre match out there.
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Finally found another Inoki vs. Backlund match online and it didn't disappoint. This time it was their 12/6/79 match. It wasn't really worked as a Strong Style match but it wasn't quite a traditional JWA style match either. For the most part, it was finisher heavy as it was a compact one fall bout and both guys were trying to land the 'knockout' punch, so to speak. Backlund's feats of strength were impressive -- the deadlifts and the suplexes -- and his selling was brilliant as always. He did some goofy punch drunk selling from repeated headbutts which I can imagine people disliking but when more beloved wrestlers like Hansen or Terry Funk do it then it's considered gold. The finish was a piece of shit and I imagine this is one of the weaker matches in their series but I liked the work. The continual struggle to apply the octopus hold was cool and the effort was there throughout. Not an Inoki Classic but better than 90% of Inoki vs. foreigner bouts.
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Found some clips of Thesz wrestling Johnny Valentine in the 1970s. Thesz still looked really good. It's clear to me that he had a post-prime 'maestro" period (if you can call it that) to rival just about any other worker you can think of. Considering he was a god in the 50s, having a strong post-prime period really is another feather in his GOAT cap.
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Shocker! It feels like we haven't seen much of him lately. He was brilliant in this and has officially turned into a guy who you need to watch just to see his performance. This was a slow burner that turned into a pretty good match. There were a lot of spots that I liked. I particularly liked the work that Perro did with Blue Panther, which feels like a match-up we haven't seen before. The screwy finish made me question why I bothered to watch it, but hey, Parka's comedy routine got a laugh out of me and at least Dandy and Antifaz are trying to make their apuesta feud bloody and violent. So we'll forgive the bullshit.
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Hart/Austin WM 13 vs. Atlantis/Villano III - Better Match?
ohtani's jacket replied to Jetlag's topic in The Microscope
Villano III vs. Atlantis is a masterpiece. I do think the lead-in to the match is generally overrated but the match itself is a classic.- 14 replies
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- Steve Austin
- Bret Hart
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Poll: Favorite match in the Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid series?
ohtani's jacket replied to SPS's topic in Pro Wrestling
I also went with 8/5/82. Criticism of the series is old. It's like flogging a dead horse. -
Atlantis is a tricky one. I've seen a lot of bad Atlantis performances that make me want to say he wasn't on the level of Santo, Lizmark, Solar or Villano III as far as masked tecnicos go but there's so much more footage available of Atlantis and it's not as though those workers never had mediocre performances. I would like to see more of Atlantis' work from 1988 since his work from '89-91 is excellent, and I believe that 1988 was when he started coming into his own as a worker. I thought he was quite good during the '96-00 CMLL period but you rarely get to see him display the full range of his talents. Often he's just running through his signature spots in trios matches which can get a bit tiresome after a while. The fact that he's managed to stay relevant in CMLL for so many years means he's never really worked the maestro circuit properly which is good for him but bad for us. I would have really liked to have seen what he was capable of against Negro Navarro, for example. I dunno, somebody about him doesn't scream "legend." Respected, long time star yes. But he doesn't quite have that aura that Santo had or even Villano III. He is almost at that Blue Panther type level.
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So Ciclon Ramirez is officially a rudo now? I loved how Ciclon and Felino reprised their feud seven years on. Never forget, never forgive. There was a lot of other good stuff in this too. Kato Kung Lee was surprisingly spritely. In fact, it's the peppiest I can remember seeing him after he loses his mask. I really enjoyed the exchanges he had with Hijo del Gladiator. It was a blast watching two older unmasked guys do their shit. The falls were short and sweet here and none of the pairings overstayed their welcome. All in all, I thought it was a pretty tidy bout.
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Good God, the work in this was awesome. It was everything you hope a Villanos vs. Infernales trio will be and for a short time it made you forget that it was just the final of a lucha tournament and not some amazing apuesta match. Then the bullshit kicked in and it was back to reality. But even the hatchet job in the editing suite managed to capture the awesome Villano III celebration afterward. What a year he's having in terms of pure emotion and adulation. There may be superstars in other promotions but has anyone connected with the crowd to the same degree as Villano III? He really is riding a wave of goodwill after his unmasking. The post-match scenes were tremendous but even they couldn't compare to Satanico and Villano V's brawling. That was damn near the da Vinci of lucha brawling. I can't believe CMLL went on a hiatus after this. I mean the Sydney Olympics were a big deal and important but we missed out on the Negro Casas vs. Dr. Wagner feud and their two singles matches at Arena Mexico. Lost 80s footage is one thing but lost 2000 footage? Gutted.
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- SATANICO WOTD
- BUCANERO WOTD
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This was a hot mess but all's well that ends well. At least the finish was satisfying. They were kind of in a bind because they wanted to do something special but were fourth from the top and weren't given a lot of time. If not for the Whisper in the Wind spot this could have been a regular TV bout but booking saved the day. The combination of Lita's spot and the con-chair-to finish made sure this ended on a high even if all it did was paper over the cracks from a structural point of view. But hey, it's the midcard. How much can you do?
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[2000-09-17-GAEA] Meiko Satomura vs Devil Masami
ohtani's jacket replied to soup23's topic in September 2000
This was a sprinted bout. It was a bit shallow with the no-selling and the repeated DVDVRs but you expect that sort of thing from Super Heel. Devil was always good at working against smaller or younger girls and that shone through here even this late in her career. Meiko didn't really bring her A game but it was still a quick seven minutes and a fun watch. -
[2000-09-13-NJPW-Amazing] Koji Kanemoto vs El Samurai
ohtani's jacket replied to soup23's topic in September 2000
This was a decent match although there was a lot of downtime for such a short bout. I've probably said this a dozen times but I'm astounded that Kanemoto has become a must-watch worker in 2000. He really is one of the better workers in Japan at this point in time. I'm not entirely sure why that is. Perhaps it was because the juniors style had shifted toward a style more in keeping with his shoot style leanings, or perhaps it was because he had simply matured into more of a veteran role, but whatever the case, I'm buying into it.