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Everything posted by ohtani's jacket
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[2000-10-15-Osaka Pro] Naohiro Hoshikawa vs Super Delphin
ohtani's jacket replied to soup23's topic in October 2000
Oh man, another outstanding match from Osaka Pro. Was there at better wrestler in Japan in 2000 than Super Delfin? The way he used his in-ring smarts and wrestling ability to counter the bigger, stronger Hoshikawa was amazing to watch. Hes been an excellent performer throughout the year. This probably went on for too long and had a few too many nearfalla but there were at least three of them that I bit on and the crowd was hot throughout. I dont know who that female fan was of Hoshi (one of gordis friends perhaps?) but she was losing her shit. Im surprised she didnt pass out when he won. These guys proofed that its possible to have an epic in a tiny arena of the intensity is there and the crowd are up for it. The other thing that makes it special is that you know they couldnt sustain this promotional run so every bit of greatness they squeeze from it is a thing to be treasured. It definitely ranks up there now with my love of mid-90s JWP and other small promotions. And Delfin is now a worker I consider on a whole different level from how I viewed him previously. So far its been Shocker and Delfin who have risen the most in my eyes during this project. -
Super Delfin!
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Greatest Wrestling Promotion of all time?
ohtani's jacket replied to Microstatistics's topic in Pro Wrestling
TWC aired GAEA. Peak output feels like a different question to greatest ever. New Japan and the WWE wouldnt make my list of favourite promotions ever but I can safely say that they're greater than boutique promotions. Greater doesnt mean better in this conversation. CMLL isnt really a void from 2000-2010. I dont think the post-Mistico years were great but there was a ton of good content from 2000-2007 and they were doing good business. -
[2000-10-01-Osaka Pro] Naohiro Hoshikawa vs Dick Togo
ohtani's jacket replied to soup23's topic in October 2000
Osaka Pro has been one of the best promotions in the world in 2000 and Togo has been one of the best workers in Japan but this still managed to defy my expectations. What a great match. I love how Hoshikawa responded to Togo roughing him up by delivering some ass-kicking of his own. And the stretch run was fantastic. The whole time I kept wondering what it would possibly take to put Togo away. The crowd was hooked and so I was. This really was a triumph of Japanese indy wrestling for 2000. Usually, a match like this wouldn't work for me because you have Hoshikawa as a quasi-shoot style guy and Togo as a pure pro-style guy and those two things tend to mesh in annoying ways but they avoided any pitfalls by focusing on effort and sheer physicality. And that type of thing always leaves an impression. Great post-match as well with Togo breaking character to put over how much he enjoyed the fight and his respect for his opponent. Osaka Pro is something else in 2000. None of the Japanese majors can touch it as far as I'm concerned. -
Watched this again. It was a bit slow in parts but the stand-up portions were awesome. Loved Hashimoto taking out his frustrations on the New Japan president by busting his mouth open. Fujinami had shoulder much of the blame for Hashimoto's loss to Ogawa for booking the match in the first place and that is partly the reason why Hashimoto is so aggressive with him. Fujinami supposedly lifted his ban on the Dragon Suplex for this match but he didn't come close to applying it. I like Fujinami's strikes in this and I thought he looked pretty spry. The match could have been a bit better but I guess they were being deliberately uncooperative,
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[2000-10-09-NJPW-Do Judge] Toshiaki Kawada vs Kensuke Sasaki
ohtani's jacket replied to Loss's topic in October 2000
Oops, used to typing that in the search bar.- 15 replies
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This was Hashimoto's comeback match after he retired following his loss to Ogawa. Initially, he was supposed to wrestle in black trunks with no entrance music but I guess that went by the wayside. It's speculation but I think the original idea behind Zero-1 was that it was a supposed to be a Hashimoto led faction/promotion that invaded New Japan, but for whatever reason Hashimoto was fired and Zero-1 became an indy instead.
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[2000-10-09-NJPW-Do Judge] Toshiaki Kawada vs Kensuke Sasaki
ohtani's jacket replied to Loss's topic in October 2000
I wonder if Kawada, in his wildest dreams, ever thought he'd be wrestling against the IWGP champion in a Dome show match? Surely not at the beginning of the year. When you think about it, it's surreal how this match came about. There's actually a part of this match where Kawada smiles. I don't think I've seen him smile in a wrestling match ever. It's right before a nearfall but who knows what the real reason was. The point is that the match feels different. It's special and it's worthy of an interpromotional bout. Personally, I thought it was one of the best matches of the year. I would put it alongside Villano II vs. Atlantis, Satomura vs. Aja and Cactus Jack vs. Triple H as far as MOTYs go. What I realised when I watched this was that it didn't matter how much I knew about the bout or if I knew the outcome, I was hooked as though the bout were happening in real time and the crowd's reaction fueled my own interest in the match. The crowd is pro-Sasaki but there are Kawada fans as well and the Sasaki fans respect Kawada the same way that Rafa fans respect Federer. This isn't Federer/Nadal but it was important at the time since AJPW vs. NJPW was that one inter-promotional feud the fans had been starved of. Work-wise, Kawada was the better worker but Sasaki was having the better year. I thought they were even for the most part. Sasaki was no slouch at this point even if he wasn't as naturally talented as Kawada. There was dumb, dopey shit in the match and the finish wasn't epic by any stretch of the imagination but it wasn't meant to be the conclusion of the feud. The finish was the first act turning point in what ideally was a three-act story. But it sure was good for a NJPW inter-promotional feud. NJPW could have easily buried Kawada as was their wont but they made the right call here. A very memorable bout.- 15 replies
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[2000-10-22-WWF-No Mercy] HHH vs Chris Benoit
ohtani's jacket replied to soup23's topic in October 2000
This was really good. You've got to give the Devil his due and acknowledge that 2000 was Triple H's year. I know people who don't like him try to claim that even his 2000 isn't that good but I haven't seen any evidence of that. He works hard in every match, is constantly selling on offense and defense and pays attention to detail with his transitions and set-up moves. He's an excellent performer. The problem is that he's not a beloved one. But then I suppose he doesn't deserve to be. I thought it was noticeable that he brought some extra offense to this going up against a great offensive wrestler like Benoit. Ross is always going on about Triple H the strategist and this was one match where he definitely worked smart. The crowd was lost in the beginning either because it was too cerebral for them or they were confused because Triple H wasn't a legit face but they grew louder during the finishing stretch. Usually, I'd hate the shit with Stephanie and the low blow but it kind of worked here. I liked the Crossface vs. Pedigree battle at the end and the low blow was in keeping with Triple H's character. And the Stephanie interference worked because of the headbutt angle. On the other hand, something about the bout lacked true main event quality (if you're thinking of it as a semi-main event) and the lack of a video package was also odd. But from my own point of view, this was a very good bout. -
Franz Schumann vs. Karsten Kretschmer (VDB 1/31/1998) This was nice stuff. It was arguably the best I've seen Schumann look as a worker. I can't really recall him grappling this much in other bouts, I wonder if there is other footage of Schumman working like this. With an exhibition of this sort, there's always a possibility that it was a departure from the norm. But I think this is from the promotion that had some great grappling from Jones, Wright, and Zrno so it may have been that Franz was finally getting to show his ability after all those years working for confused promotions like Reslo, CWA, and EWF that were trying to find some way to stay relevant in the early 90s during a period of downturn for European wrestling. In any event, I liked this Schumann much better than the younger version.
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Billy Goelz and other 50s finds
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in The Microscope
It's been a while since I've watched any 50s stuff. The VQ on Paul Anderson vs. Bozo Brown is just about unwatchable but Anderson is an interesting worker as he was an Olympic gold medalist powerlifter and recognized at the time as the strongest man in the world. Not much of a match but Anderson is quick on his feet for a fat dude. Bronko Lubich vs. Jack Allen was a neat little bout. Lubich was a good worker. One of my favourite things about 50s wrestling is seeing the actual wrestling careers of guys like Lubich. He was a junior heavyweight heel with some nice in-ring tricks that drew plenty of heat from the crowd. Like most of his contemporaries, he knew his way around a hold. And he had a great look with that mustache of his. I hope we get some footage of his tag team with Aldo Bogni as he looked like a promising worker. Billy Darnell vs. The Great Yamato was what you'd expect from those two. Darnell wanted a good clean bout but Yamato kept using illegal moves to gain the advantage. The majority of the fight was cat and mouse stuff until Darnell got pissed after one inside move too many. You know the formula. The last few minutes had some heated action as the bout broke down and Darnell began to cut loose. This was an early Yamato TV match and he didn't have quite as forceful an impact on offense as in later matches. But even without the stiffness, it was decent stuff for a Japanese heel bout. Davis is at his worst whenever foreign heels are involved, though, so you have to live with that for 30 minutes. Pretty good match even if there was a lot of time killing to start with. -
So we finally get to the hair vs. mask match. This has been an underwhelming feud and the apuesta match is no different. Dandy isn't a charismatic enough rudo and Antifaz isn't a good enough tecnico to make you care about what's happening in the ring. Zumbido is ten times more charismatic than Dandy on the outside and has better hair to boot. In hindsight, it would have been a better bet to have had Zumbido feud with Antifaz. One thing that keeps bugging me about the feud is why do they use the same piece of plunder in every match? I can't understand why that sheet of metal is always at ringside. This had some decent nearfalls in the final fall but nothing that made me change my opinion on the feud in general. The best thing about it was Dandy accepting his haircut with honor and dignity (after he'd claimed his shoulders were up, that is.) I liked the way he let Antifaz cut off his locks. Antifaz's mask was so wrecked you could pretty much see what he looked like even though he'd won. He had a tough time keeping the middle part on the bridge of his nose during the post-match interview. Watching the post-match it felt like the feud achieved its goal in terms of pushing Antifaz but I wish Dandy's work had been more memorable.
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Wrestlers who are BOTH Overrated and Underrated
ohtani's jacket replied to Microstatistics's topic in Pro Wrestling
It's been a long time since i watched these guys. Have they produced anything good in the past few years? -
Greatest Wrestling Promotion of all time?
ohtani's jacket replied to Microstatistics's topic in Pro Wrestling
A lot of those examples don't apply to CMLL specifically. Don't forget that during the 70s and 80s, New Japan had a working relationship with the UWA. So most of the lucha influence in Japan comes from a different Mexican promotion. Hamada was predominantly a UWA worker and sent his MPro guys to work in the UWA as well. If you're talking about modern day lucha influence then CMLL obviously leads the way. -
Wrestlers who are BOTH Overrated and Underrated
ohtani's jacket replied to Microstatistics's topic in Pro Wrestling
I supppse any polarizing figure fits the bill here. Manami Toyota, Kurt Angle, Tanahashi, Cena, Shawn Michaels, Kenta Kobashi. It seems like Fujiwara, Kandori and Taue are suffering a bit of backlash from folks who dont feel as though they live up to the revisionist hype or that the praise for them has gone too far in the opposite direction. Takada may be the same but I feel criticism of him has died down in recent years. -
Greatest Wrestling Promotion of all time?
ohtani's jacket replied to Microstatistics's topic in Pro Wrestling
It would have to be one of the major promotions that are still in existence, namely the WWE, CMLL and NJPW. Dale Martin/Joint Promotions had quality TV wrestling from 1955 to1984 and they even had some decent stuff in the final few years. I dont think any promotion can compare to thejr TV. -
80s NWA vs. 90s AJPW vs. 00s ROH vs. 10s NJPW
ohtani's jacket replied to fxnj's topic in Pro Wrestling
You need to be in the right frame of mind to enjoy any of them. After watching a ton of 50s wrestling I doubt Crocket would do a hell of a lot for me. But if I had the sudden desire to watch some wrestling promos, I'm sure I could get into the studio vibe and the matches. With AJPW, I need to be in the frame of mind to appreciate all the grandiose things that people enjoy otherwise it's just guys going through the same motions over and over again. With ROH, I figure I'd need to be in the mood to enjoy an indy and an alternative form of wrestling. With NJPW a lot of the time it was looking for the good amid a bunch of counter-reaction and criticism. And preferring shoot style and matwork, I need to channel some of my basic appreciation for classic pro-wrestling to get the most out of AJPW and modern NJPW. I figure the best year or two from each promotion is enjoyable, Most peak wrestling is enjoyable. But it depends where I am in my own viewing cycle. -
Monterrey sure loves to stack the rudo side. So much so that trios matches aren't big enough and they keep running atomicos. Somewhat surprising then that the match didn't get going until the tecnicos made their comeback. All that rudo talent on display but the beatdown was mailed in. It took a fired up Perro to salvage anything from this. One thing that's become apparent watching the entire year is that there is good old man Perro and not-so-good old man Perro. This was the good Perro. He took the energy up another level and thanks to him there were some fun exchanges before the inevitable foul. Perro was still going at it after the bell which warmed the cockles of my jaded, faded heart.
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Antifaz and Dandy still hate each other. This was one of the better matches in their feud because of the effort the others made to intensify the action. Parka and Silver King ripping into each other threw another log on the fire and Casas and Zumbido beefing also kept things hot. The exchanges between Parka and Silver King hinted at how good a singles match might be. It's lucha so you won't get the match, but hey, dreams are free. Casas looked good as well -- another reminder of how gutting it is that we don't have the Wagner matches on tape ;( I liked the finish as well with Dandy showing his wrestling credentials just in case anyone had forgotten.
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Matt D sent me a link to Thesz/Bockwinkel vs. Rusher Kimura/Great Kusatsu from 1979. The action was a bit disappointing but Thesz looked old and masterly. It's possible that Thesz is one of those guys who was a good worker up until the end.
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Andre the Giant (Jean Ferre) vs. Frank Valois (aired 10/31/70) What a difference a few years in the city make. Andre had grown his hair out and was looking very suave compared the last match. Once his hair was ruffled, he looked pretty much like the 70s Andre we're familiar with and wrestled the same way. Gone were the holds and matwork. Now it was cocked fists and leaning heavily on his man in the ropes. I think Andre was already Valois' meal ticket at this point. Valois played the role of a journeyman heel using plenty of inside moves to try to get a handle on the Giant but only really succeeding at irritating him. It was slow going for the most part. I don't mind European bouts where the heel cheats but I expect to see some fireworks. It's interesting because it's early Andre but won't blow your socks off.
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Andre the Giant (Jean Ferre) vs. Scarface (aired 1/1/68) This is some of the most fascinating shit you can watch. It's not just Andre being young and mobile -- I mean truly mobile, not oh, he was more agile in the 70s mobile-- it's young Andre working the European style. in particular, the European style where the clean, sportsmanlike match breaks down into a heated brawl. He's also playing face, which is interesting in and of itself. Andre doing FIP spots are the roots of his later HIP work. He was still a bit green in spots but I still came away thinking that 60s Andre was impressive.
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Andre the Giant (Jean Ferre) vs. Franz Van Buyten (aired 1/20/68) Jetlag hipped me to the fact that there is now 60s Andre on YouTube. Not only 60s Andre but 60s Franz Van Buyten. So excited. Andre looks like a country boy and nothing like Princess Bride Andre. At the beginning of the match, wrestlers come to the ring to greet him. None other than Rene Lasartesse -- in a suit, Ric Flair style -- comes out and insults Andre. Truly one of the great moments in wrestling history. The match is just brilliant. Andre wrestling! Andre taking bumps! Franz Van Buyten being a stud instead of a master. Roger Couderc being Roger Couderc, Who is this YouTube uploader doing the Lord's work? Andre doing the European 'European uppercut' exchange blew my tiny mind. This was something else. I will die and go to heaven if this is a Lasartesse vs, Andre match out there.
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Finally found another Inoki vs. Backlund match online and it didn't disappoint. This time it was their 12/6/79 match. It wasn't really worked as a Strong Style match but it wasn't quite a traditional JWA style match either. For the most part, it was finisher heavy as it was a compact one fall bout and both guys were trying to land the 'knockout' punch, so to speak. Backlund's feats of strength were impressive -- the deadlifts and the suplexes -- and his selling was brilliant as always. He did some goofy punch drunk selling from repeated headbutts which I can imagine people disliking but when more beloved wrestlers like Hansen or Terry Funk do it then it's considered gold. The finish was a piece of shit and I imagine this is one of the weaker matches in their series but I liked the work. The continual struggle to apply the octopus hold was cool and the effort was there throughout. Not an Inoki Classic but better than 90% of Inoki vs. foreigner bouts.