Tawren

I don't see Kobashi finishing outside of my top 10, but I don't know if I have an answer yet for where I will rank him vs Misawa or Kawada. I don't think he is in my conversation for my #1. His best matches are obviously an all time resume, but as his body breaks down he probably doesn't have as deep of a resume as Misawa. It's fun to read through the ebbs and flows of Western smark appreciation for Kobashi over the years. His stock rises and falls much more than Misawa does.

I think a more interesting question is what would his blindfold matches look like. I can see him doing an interesting comedy match vs a Don Callis. I'd love to see him and Danielson or Moxley in one. Very unlikely to happen though! Ospreay will probably be in my top 25, maybe a bit higher. He has so many high end classics like the G1 final vs Naito and the Omega matches. Strong depth of ****+. Great flyer and a good theme song. I don't think I'll be the highest voter.

Ultimo won't be on my list. He was super over and had a cool aura in the 90s, but he was sloppy and doesn't have a great top end resume. His DG comeback was interesting but the best thing about it was Dragon Kid saving him in last year's mask vs mask cage, and that's nowhere near enough.

MJF is really good and is a guy who has some really high highs. For example, the Danielson Iron man and the punk dog collar match, but he also has a ton of really bad lows. For example, the Jay white match at full gear 2023. I just can't see MJF making my list. Maybe if he has a crazy good next few years but he feels more like a 2036 discussion and even then I think he has too many bad instincts.

Awesome thread KinchStalker. I love stuff like this and looking forward to reading more.

No idea where to put this so I guess it goes in this thread. I just finished reading Magnetic Mountain by Stephen Kotkin, a book about the creating of the city of Magnitogorsk in the Soviet Union in the 1930's. They basically built the city from scratch to build a steel mill and mining operation as part of early Soviet hyperindustrialization, and the book is about how the average person lived and participated in that society. If you're into this kind of reading, I highly recommend it. Unfortunately that's the extent of the wrestling references, and all the notes lead to Soviet newspapers of the time which I certainly can't access or read. So that's tremendously interesting to me - in the mid-1930's, there was a French wrestling troupe experienced and connected enough to travel the USSR and be sent to an extremely remote city (though nationally important), and draw packed houses. And of course it speaks to the somehow universal appeal of pro wrestling, when in contexts as varied as then and now it can still be popular.

TNA - the company that just won't die! Now featured in the AEW championship main event title scene with WON HOF Kenny Omega.

I've come around on Jay White. Outside of the constant interference, he is an excellent wrestler with a good moveset and awesome timing. I trust NJPW booking for the most part. But man...I don't see it in Evil. Even when Jay White sucked when he first got pushed, I could see some kind of potential and the look (thinking he needed a beard - and that really helped). But Evil just doesn't have it.

I've always found Terry Funk's transition from mainstream AJPW/NWA/WCW etc to FMW/ECW/indies to be bizarre. But I just was thinking about it in relation to Dory Funk's longevity in his weird wrestling school that never produced anyone - why didn't Dory ever show up in any of these feds? Why did Terry not make his way back to WCW or AJPW in the 90s?

I recall reading about this years ago and I'm interested in looking into purchasing- Is there a good "coffee table" book on lucha? Is that the Monda Lucha a-go-go book? I basically want a book with mask pictures and iconic "suits and masks" pics. Just finished the Pat Laprade Andre book and reading through Sabu's right now. Both are just fantastic - I'll post more thoughts when done Sabu's.

Dick Togo showing up in 2020 IWGP title scene is certainly up there for WTF moments. Probably the same as some of the weird Jan 4 Tokyo Dome main event results, I get it and I trust Gedo has a plan or whatever, but it doesn't work for me and I'm not interested in EVIL as a champion and all the interference and bullshit in the main event. Not what I want in my pro wrestling and specifically NJPW. But that chicken has left the coop long ago.

The numbers, like how many were they selling. I'd be really interested to know how much Danielson vs Liger sold compared to Joe vs Kobashi, or Joe vs Punk 2. Or how the CZW Cage of Death did, or Glory By Honor 2006. It would be interesting to know how many people were actually watching this back then.

What is Lynch's email again? Does he still have the same catalogue. I remember receiving that thing in the mail like a brick.

I've been wondering this forever...has it ever come out what ROH's distribution was from 2004-2007 when they artistically and storyline peaked? For their DVDs and VHS releases. And how did that compare to 2002-2004 when RF was running and distributing the shows.

Just want to join in on the chorus...this is a great forum and I always enjoy checking in and reading everyone's opinions. I wish I had posted more over the years, maybe this is a good time to get more involved. It's always fun when I'm getting into a wrestler or match series or era and to come to PWO and check on what people said in the GWE forum on that person, or the match forum, or if there's a historical review with people who were there and know this stuff better than anyone. It's a real pleasure. Cheers everyone.

Just tuning in...I really like that set. Looks really good.

How did ROH do when they brought in Blue Panther and other luchadores maybe 5 years ago? I recall the 'crossover' idea didn't really work - but I also doubt they promoted it well.

Two things: 1) Jay White really sucks. He might get better. But right now he really sucks. No presence, no charisma, lame moves. But it feels like the hardcore audience is starting to get behind him, and NJPW is into him, so I wonder if we'll see the hardcore opinion shift and he'll turn into an 'underrated favourite'. Look for it. 2) NJPW needs to do some shorter main events or NEVER matches. Run a 10-minute Goto vs whoever bombfest or something, or Okada beats the NJ Cup winner with an early rainmaker. The crowd was dead for the early pacing of Okada vs Sanada, and it feels to me like they are nearing that cliff. Insane NJPW main events are still fun to me, but they need to have some earlier finishes or some of these crazy moves end a match to make the crowd buy into it.

Yeah it's a weird list. It's interesting to pick through. I'm surprised some of the 'classic indy' matches aren't on there - Punk's major WWE matches vs Cena, Lesnar, Taker are on but not Punk vs Joe from 2004? And there's no way on a poll of that size, that the majory of people on R/SC have seen 29) PWG World Championship: Chris Hero © vs. Bryan Danielson - September 4, 2009 - there's just no way. Especially with how many modern WWE and NJPW matches are in the top 50. So it's interesting to see what matches are highly regarded as classics and get votes just because of that aura and I'm really surprised Hero/Danielson from 2009 PWG is there. It's really good though.

Unmasked Dr Wagner Jr as an old-school well dressed luchador is one of my favourite weird things.

Yeah, de-escalating the Hiromu push was strange to me. Especially after the 2 minute Kushida squash I thought they were going all-in on Hiromu as a dominant ace, and instead they had him as almost a pure comedy guy after.

Is there a reason they haven't tried to monetize the 2002-07 era archive over the recent period? Did it just take them forever to get up and running? It's still not confirmed those shows will be available. It feels like they are leaving lots of money on the table.

It's weird (in a good way) to see a modern match with almost no variation in opinion - this match is amazing and everyone knows it. From the moment it started. Gargano is an amazing babyface and Almas is a great heel with one of my favourite movesets. The double knees are brutal and the finish into the LED post was just the most savage spot, sold incredibly, created well, great crowd reaction. All the moves and strikes were so hard in a way modern indy and NJPW strikes aren't really. Segunda Caida put it well as they often do: "this is what New Japan fans see when they watch a New Japan main event". Except everyone can see this which is such a sign of a great job by Gargano and Almas. Seriously one of my favourite matches, potentially ever. *****

Like many things with WWE, it's mind boggling that they didn't come back for a major event in Calgary based around the Stampede. This crowd is absolutely insane. I agree with some great points in this thread: it's like the real end of Stampede, it's a goodbye to the territory, it's an amazing spectacle, the crowd is insane, the Hart Foundation entrance is one of the best entrances ever. Vince McMahon is great on commentary. The match itself is good, the work feels disjointed but not in a bad way. But this match isn't about the match, it's about the crowd and the intensity and the Hart's. Must-see.

Watched Undertaker vs Vader from Canadian Stampede 1997. That crowd was wild - we will never see a crowd like that in Canada/USA again. Good match, Paul Bearer is outstanding, Taker and Vader exchange blows, and a good finish with two chokeslams and a tombstone for a clean win. Vader's WWF run is all what-if but he was good in 1997, and Taker had a great 1997. Imagine that Taker in AJPW in 1997-99, going over with or instead of Vader. That would have been interesting.