Grimmas

Absolutely this. There is so much wrestling out there that I want to watch because I know I'll enjoy it but can't find the time. I'm not going to be spending the time I do have watching something I don't like much in the vein hope it'll eventually get easier. Shit, people really only watch the art they like and never try to expand into new areas?

You learned to love Dory. You set out to watch all the great AJPW. How is this any different?

Yeah. I can't believe I watched that shitty first season of Babylon 5, which helped me set up the best 2-3 seasons of TV ever later on. or that country I sat through which I didn't like at first, that helped me learn and really start to love it. etc....

It's almost like watching select matches doesn't allow you to fairly evaluate wrestling.

Long feud, lots of hate. It's been a while since I watched it, but I think El Dandy faked being low blowed. Low blows are DQ's, so referee saw El Dandy selling getting the low blow and DQ'ed Satanico. It's epic justice, since Satanico faked low blows for wins very often.

I think what is missing from your viewing is context.

A really good **** contest with Ultimo Guerrero leading the way. One blow away spot is UG catching Caristico off a dive and power bombing him on the floor. All falls get time and it builds to a hot end.

It was last night.

Those were really good. Cavenario had a sneaky really good year. I've watched a bit of this week's lucha and damn was Guerrero Maya Jr/Soberano Jr/Titan vs Dragon Rojo Jr/Luciferno/Polvora a damn awesome match, probably go *** 1/2. Polvora/Dragon Rojo are really a great unit and had some great tandem offence. Soberano Jr and Titan are just nuts and so smooth. Some of the spots in this one where out of this world. Guerrero Maya jr was sloppy for some reason. Caristico vs Ultimo Guerrero was a great match as well. Went ****. UG was in top notch form, and Caristico hit everything very well. The catch by UG on the outside into a power bomb was ridiculous. UG has had a great run this year.

Actually great point, lucha is incredibly diverse. There is brawling, spotfests, techinical matches, high end drama, etc... There is lucha for every type of wrestling fan. That is why I found it so bizarre when Parv said Negro Casas wasn't a luchador. What the fuck is lucha libre then?

I don't like Flair. I think he's over rated. I had him #10 on my list.

Last year I did my 100 best matches ever, here are the 90s matches on that list. It's probably changed in the last year, but here we go: 55 Shinya Hashimoto vs Genichiro Tenryu (NJPW, 8/1/98) 54 Orient Express vs Rockers (WWF, 1/19/91) 53 Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Ultimo Dragon (WCW, 11/24/96) 52 El Hijo del Santo & Rey Misterio Jr. & La Parka & Octagon vs Pentagon & Blue Panther & Fuerza Guerrera & Psicosis (AAA, 6/18/95) 51 Steve Williams vs Mitsuharu Misawa (7/28/94) 50 Midnight Express vs Rock'n'Roll Express (NWA, 2/25/90) 49 El Dandy vs Black Warrior (CMLL, 11/2/96) 48 Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Koashi (AJPW, 12/3/93) 47 Shinjiro Ohtani vs Jushin Liger (NJPW, 2/9/97) 46 Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Koashi (AJPW, 5/21/94) 45 Toshiyo Yamada & Manami Toyota vs Dynamite Kansai & Maumi Ozaki (AJW, 11/26/92) 44 Vader vs Dustin Rhodes (WCW, 11/16/94) 43 Rick Rude vs Ricky Steamboat (WCW, 6/20/92) 42 Lex Luger vs Ric Flair (NWA, 2/25/90) 41 Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect (WWF, 6/13/93) 40 Akira Taue vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW, 3/21/95) 39 Bret Hart vs Undertaker (WWF, 9/20/97) 38 Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker (WWF, 10/5/97) 37 Royal Rumble (WWF, 1/19/92) 36 Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano (NJPW, 1/31/90) 35 El Dandy vs Angel Azteca (EMLL, 6/1/90) 34 Dude Love vs Steve Austin (WWF, 5/31/98) 33 Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Jr. (WCW, 10/26/97) 32 War Games (WCW, 9/18/94) 31 Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke (NJPW, 4/16/94) 30 Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Psicosis (WCW, 7/7/96) 29 Dusin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat vs Enforcers (WCW, 11/19/91) 28 Jumbo & Taue & Fuchi vs Misawa & Kawada & Kobashi (AJPW, 4/20/91) 27 Atsushi Onita vs Terry Funk (FMW, 5/5/93) 26 Randy Savage vs Ric Flair (WWF, 4/5/92) 25 Midnight Express vs Southern Boys (WCW, 7/7/90) 24 Bret Hart vs 1-2-3 Kid (WWF, 7/1/94) 23 El Hijo del Santo vs Negro Casas (CMLL, 9/19/97) 22 10 Man Tag (M-Pro, 10/10/96) 21 Bret Hart vs Diesell (WWF, 11/19/95) 20 Jumbo Tsuruta vs Misawa (AJPW, 6/8/90) 19 Pirata Morgan vs Satanico (AAA, 11/26/93) 18 Cibernetico (CMLL, 4/18/97) 17 Megumi Kudo vs Combat Toyoda (FMW, 5/5/96) 16 Kobashi & Kikuchi vs Kroffatt & Furnas (AJPW, 5/25/91) 15 Aja Kong vs Bull Nakano (AJW, 11/14/90) 14 Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (WWF, 3/24/91) 13 Akira Taue vs Misawa (AJPW, 4/15/95) 12 El Dandy vs El Satanico (EMLL, 12/14/90) 11 War Games (WCW, 5/17/92) 10 Eddie Guerrero & Love Machine vs El Hijo del Santo 7 Octagon (AAA, 11/6/94) 9 Jumbo vs Misawa (AJPW, 9/1/90) 8 Kobashi vs Hansen (AJPW, 7/29/93) 7 Hansen vs Kawada (AJPW, 2/28/93) 6 Misawa vs Kawada (APW, 6/3/94) 5 Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (WWF, 3/23/97) 4 Bret vs Owen (3/20/94) 3 Misawa & Akiyama vs Taue & Kawada (12/6/96) 2 Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (WWF, 11/17/96) 1 Akira Hokuto vs Shinobu Kandori (4/2/93)

That's certainly an interpretation.

Yep.That's it. You got me. Thanks for pointing it out, I'm clearly just trying to protect the narrative in my head above all reason. EDIT: Forgot to point out, it's only because of racism towards Mexicans. Can't miss that, since I hate white people say much.

Again, that's not what I meant. What I am sure of is lucha doesn't get good coverage so it makes sense that that match isn't getting hype.

Manhatten Center can hold up to 2000 for wrestling. I don't know (or care) what the attendance was for the Danielson/Morishima match, but throwing out incorrect facts isn't going to help any argument. I looked and could only find 1000 as capacity. Does anybody know attendance, can't find it. There are indies in America that draw 1000 people and get zero coverage as well. When ROH was blowing up online and drawing 800 fans was this incredible feat, there were shows in Alabama or Arkansas drawing the same or more with the Rock N Roll Express and Bobby Eaton, AJ Styles, etc. No one ever talked about them. There is a indie show that brings a bunch of legends and hot indie guys to Indiana every year that draws 5000 people. It gets zero coverage. No one cares about those baseball stadium shows. And these are in America, with a language that people know. Yet you're unsure of why a random Mexican indie match isn't being covered as much as something from AAA or CMLL? I'm not unsure. You clearly do not understand a single thing I type. My apologies.

Someone pointed out why would this small indie match be a match that could win match of the year. Well they outdrew and is easier to watch then a match that won in 2007.

Manhatten Center can hold up to 2000 for wrestling. I don't know (or care) what the attendance was for the Danielson/Morishima match, but throwing out incorrect facts isn't going to help any argument. I looked and could only find 1000 as capacity. Does anybody know attendance, can't find it.

By the way: Canis Lupus vs Trauma I was a sell out of 2,400 people and easily available on youtube. In 2007, Danielson vs Morishima drew no more than 1,000 (that was building capacity) and you had to pay for it and it was match of the year.

i'll take this over yet another guy who gets obnoxiously indignant over defending his boring-ass canonical takes Can I just ask why is it the worst sin in the world to call someone a hipster or contrarian but this sort of thing is totally fine? Isn't that not only a double standard but also a built in proof of my oft-derided claim that some people see themselves as challenging established narratives? It always depends on how it's done, not what they are doing. If the old standard is true after being looked at it, fine. If it's just toying the old standard that is silly. Same for reverse, claiming something to be a contrarian is stupid. Thinking something is better that is contrary to old standard, is fine.

Stop trolling. Liking 70s AJPW is trolling? The fuck? My love of 70s AJPW is everywhere I post, including my own website. Baba was a wonderful booker, and whoever was laying out the matches could make me enjoy Mil Mascaras matches. No, liking 70s AJPW is not trolling and you know that. Stop being so obtuse.

I've jumped back onto this. Did a Villano III vs Rambo review and an EVOLVE 74 review recently.

Just reviewed this on my blog and I give it the same rating as Chad. I think the finish to this is the best Dusty finish I have ever seen.

Stop trolling.

A NJPW Christmas Special! My favourite of all specials!