Benbeeach

I think we all think Cena is great and has been for quite some time. He's got the oddest top face run of all time. It's weird, of course, but for something like this, seems like small potatoes. And I watched the Wrestlemania XI main event for the first time since I was a child. What criticisms are there of Shawn in this match? It from what I watched seemed like a top 10 or so Nash performance. Shawn's "working for two" in a sense, but it isn't some demonstrative Hogan summerslam demonstration. Nor is he doing anything to elicit giant HBK cheers/Diesel boo's. It's a just a good, prime Shawn, working boots match. The jackknife was shitty, but outside of that...

I get the impression, that you are not the biggest fan of Shawn Michaels from the readings. Am I warm?

That Shuji Kondo match is great. And they blew off a top rope front flipping DDT, as a nearfall. A not even all that close to a 3 nearfall. And it's still great. That said...yeah. I like Kaz and his revival in the midway point of last decade was fun. I have nothing further to bolster his case. Your list is done already anyway, who cares

...was Wahoo McDaniel a better wrestler than Samoa Joe? (I love Wahoo mind you)

I'm from Ghana, West Africa. Do we have a problem here?

They didn't do it as fast or crisply as the Dragon Gate teams, and didn't completely own the sheer schtick of it all the way the bucks do. They had no self referential "super kick party" so to speak. They were a good team for a time. It's not enough, but credit where credit is due

I absolutely think The Undertaker is one of the 100 greatest ever. But again, the worker, and the wrestler, and all that encompasses don't always mean the same things. But I think Taker's high's are high enough that he shouldn't be summarily dismissed no matter what paradigm you're looking at this through. It's not like at his best Taker wasn't a good seller. (Especially given the gimmick, delicate lines) He had good, above average offense. Checks off the crazy old guy stunt show Funk and Flair boxes. Has had great matches at a sub Flair/Bockwinkel age. He's beyond a net positive wrestler. Are there 10 WWE workers better?

"He left his little world a better place than he found it, which might be the best any of us can hope to do." real

I knew I liked Danielson before tonight. Loved even. I didn't know he was my favorite of all time. Now I know. I will miss him. He was a tier 1 worker, and is a tier 1 person.

Honestly if those Are Danielson's only flaws, he seems like top 15-20 guaranteed guy on almost every ballot at worst.

Might chop onions tonight

What exactly are the examples of post comeback Shawn "punching above his weight class" so to speak? Those matches with Cena were a lot closer to his main event norm than some outlier. Working against peak Cena on a pretty good established formula is probably going to garner pretty good results but the idea that they were "miracles" seems harsh. I rewatched a RAW match with Benoit, where you'd think Shawn might go above and beyond his actual skill set, but he doesn't. He keeps it super basic and he somehow gets a vertical suplex over as a nearfall. Post comeback Shawn isn't without fault, but I never saw, chop, elbow, sell for hours, super kick, go home, as somehow being beyond his reach.

Thinking about Mizdow not winning last year's Mania battle royal makes me depressed. Big Show clearly needed that

What was Akiyama's peak? I think consistency and longevity definitely put Akiyama high. I definitely feel the "guy after the guys" sentiments. Even when he emerged as a man all his own in the early 2000's, Kobashi reemerged and knocked Jun right back down. And then unselfishly I suppose, Jun didn't take the reigns when Kobashi went down, and then there was the old man Misawa holding pattern run until he perished. For as good as he's been for as long as he's been, his time as THEE guy, or perhaps literally A GUY of sorts seemd so short and disparate compared to the other guys his resume would otherwise have him placed next to. As others have said, we have young rookie Jun. We've got grumpy old Jun. The middle, most guys most crucial portion, just seems kind of...there. Not free of quality, but free of some, soul? A stamp of sorts that says THIS IS WHO I AM as a character, a worker.

I didn't think AJ was small, until I saw the Jericho match. Jericho is definitely at his restauranteur Jake Lamotta weight now but still, there was a noticeable difference. Like others have said though, AJ is one springboard 450 away from being Daniel Brian regardless so it shouldn't matter. The booking however...

The real tragedy is how much the fans wanted Roman at one point. It would have took a much more measured and tempered approach. But there's an alternate universe where fans are chomping at the bit and ravenous for his first title win and not apathetic towards his third. Damn that Daniel Bryan

I said, 4, 6, 8, didn't really matter the number as it did the length (granted he got like a solid 25 minutes or so plus in there, so it's not like he was Bushwacker Luke or something) and the showing. AJ coming and looking like a threat early would...make him look like a threat. Going toe to toe with the WWE champ probably does that just as easily in 3 minutes than dragging it over 30 would, but again it was just a thought. I'm sure Jericho was in the spot he was in because that's what he and management wanted him to do. Wasn't a terrible choice for what ultimately didn't matter. But again, I think for the new guy on his first night, that spot could have worked tremendously. Dolph in that spot, who cares. Jericho, cool, but who cares. AJ in that spot and he's right there with the rest of the roster. Not trying to nitpick on what were otherwise very well booked eliminations. Was a thought. And I'm not budging on that perfect point. Perfect is more analogous to Jericho last night than AJ. AJ's situation is/was very unique in some respects. If "rumble booking = preview of future push" is the only similarity, then fine. But for every "Rumble booking doesn't matter" of which there really are numerous examples, like hundreds, there's Roman Reigns in 2014, which probably led us on this doomed path we're on now. They booked him like a monster, he was in the final 2, the crowd ate it up, and bought him as a potential top guy. And the rest is history, sadly.

One match against Austin, then they gave up on him cold turkey. Agreed about him not being able to go anymore though. Anyway, my original point was, I think we care more about the final four of the Rumble than Vince does. I'm not saying it's not important, but I bet it's not nearly as important to Vince as the final two is. AJ Styles making it to the final four wouldn't have made much of a difference to his overall standing. He'll still get whatever push he's going to get. I don't disagree with the push being what it was ultimately going to be (although final 4-6-8 might have said a lot about what KIND of push it was ultimately going to be) but I think the new guy getting that massive pop, then lasting that long and pulling out a bunch of spots and showing the uninitiated crowd what he was capable of and why he belongs in there, would only help to better serve him in the long run. Like others have said, he was no worse a pick for the iron man spot than Chris Jericho. In fact he was a better choice by almost every conceivable metric. I think him having a really tight 7 minute match with Neville or somebody on RAW tomorrow would serve to do essentially the same thing, but I'm just thinking out loud. And yeah perfect was a guy, AJ is a guy. Close enough

Not really. Mr. Perfect returned and made it to the final four in 2002, and it didn't mean a lick. Sure, the Plane Ride from Hell derailed his momentum, but he was booked as a lower midcarder even before that - with his odd couple pairing with Boss Man that screamed "we have no idea what the fuck to do with either of these guys." Felt like the type of random pairing someone would choose in those old WWF Superstars or WrestleFest arcade games. I guess this is an apt comparison, kind of, not really

Yeah that looked goofy. Might have to save that for the Ambrose size dudes and below. AJ's got like 5 finishers anyway, I think he'll get by just fine

AJ probably would've been a made man in WWE forever had he made it to the final 6 or so. But you know how that stuff goes. Perplexing is a good word for it. HHH won and while it was the most logical choice given the . . . illogical nature of this entire wrestlemania build, I was still left saying "really?" The uncertainty of it all will have me glued, but this all looks hella dicey on top. And I want AJ Styles to work every single person in the company.

Didn't look out of place next to Roman at all. In some weird fantasy booking life come true they looked like super competitive equals, although maybe that's just how Roman sells for everyone. In a world where Bryan Danielson can headline Wrestlemania, doubt this is a real problem

Samoa Joe's extended competitive squash run in 2005 was great.

^ To add to the gravitas. A certain poster reviewed a match (it was Parv, who cares) reviewed a match against Joe in 2005 where it seemingly didn't connect. It was said the beatdown wasn't believable vis a vis the grave commentary that came with it. (Despite AJ's mouth leaking like a faucet by the end) Not going to sit here and say Mike Tenay and Don "I was this close to selling shamwows" West aren't prone to a bit of hyperbole. But perhaps in this case it was warranted given the booking and circumstance. Joe had ran through everyone, accept AJ, because AJ was the standard bearer, and carried himself and sold and executed like a big deal. So if Joe could do this to AJ, then he really was every bit the devastating monster he was pegged to be. Joe certainly brought the lunch pale 99/100 back in those days, but that particular match is all on AJ and his selling, his character, his "fight" so to speak. He never looked out of place against heavyweights in a way that a lot of his contemporaries did because he had a way to make his character, his offense fit, and look logical, and wasn't above punching people in the mouth and get a match over on his resiliency and great strength for his size. A junior, that always felt like top of the promotion material. AJ from about 2002 onward was always a cut above the rest, and more often than not it was his opponents that had to work UP to him and not the other way around. He could do a backflip reverse DDT that on the surface is a total wtf move and work it in a way that looked like an excellent desperation counter, or work it in a way that looked like a total show off dick look at me move. A guy who can, at it's very basic, pull of a fosbury flop, and again be able to use it as the ultimate babyface flash dive, last ditch hope, and everything in between should be commended for it, not condemned. If AJ is the best from a generation of workers that don't connect or don't check off enough boxes, or aren't working in a grounded enough sense of reality, then I understand dismissing some things from the era, but not AJ himself, who was besides Danielson, the best of his era, and as far as things you'd look for from a pro wrestler, a modern pro wrestler, has and does nearly everything. Seems unfair. Short sighted. Sometimes, if something is pimped as great and you don't see it. It's you.

I'm 25. I know what Undertale is and Saitama is one of my favorite anime characters ever (he is One Punch Man). Those aren't things one has to seek out if their in tune with a certain demographic, almost irregardless and irrespective of age. That's a what bubble do you occupy sort of thing. But it also just might mean you're old too. Not rating AJ Styles is retarded (from only two matches, if you watch more and it doesn't click it doesn't click) and you guys are probably all a little out of touch. But I mean, being 35 plus is being 35 plus. Josh are you going to play SFV? (FGC talk, don't mind us)