El-P

Well, the WWE HoF really is Vince saying who gets in, so honestly I don't see what's the big deal. Plus, you really want to get into the same club as Donald Trump and Jimmy Snuka ? But to me all awards like these are just meaningless. Just like Academy Awards and the likes (really, a HOF is just a bunch of honorary awards). I guess it's nice to be recognized by your pairs, but you get recognized by your pairs in criminal organization too. I've always got more sympathy for the directors/actors/artists who don't give a fuck about anything but their actual work and don't participate in such social events (where everybody is a great happy family and everyone loves everyone of course). The whole "prize" business in general is kind of a shady affair anyway. To go back strictly to pro-wrestling, the WO HOF is much more real because actual people from different generations who watch a lot of pro-wrestling actually vote. It's only representative of *this* group's opinion of course, much like our GWE final list is only representative of a limited bunch of people arguing to death on an internet board at a specific time (even though we like the idea that we known better than every other pro-wrestling fans out there !). But that's the way it goes. Whatever float's people's boat. Like I said, the fact they induct Bischoff *now* is kinda hilarious to me.

Right back in time to push the joshi candidates for the next GWE. Hi John !

I can totally picture Misawa totally no-sell a Jumbo unfunny joke now, with the usual stoic Misawa look. Again, this is much MUCH appreciated. This is such a sumo-like interview ! One day there has to be a study on how much pro-wrestling in Japan has been heavily influenced by sumo. Hell, watching Rikidozan I just learned that his chop was basically a modification of the sumo harite.

Sabu is the perfect illustration than "working hard" equals nothing in the big picture (as opposed to be lucky, knowing the right people and knowing how to navigate through politics). He's easily one of the hardest working guys ever and also easily one of the most influential pro-wrestler in the last 30 years (really, if he had a cent by broken table spots). Also, the WWE HOF is indeed, a fake HOF (whatever a HOF means anyway) because the criteria is "Vince said so".

He should do his infamous Shawn Michaels impersonation. That would get over well.

No shit ? I'm talking about the perception of the promotion by its audience. We talked in length with the Christian deal about how they did not want to be TNA-like. It's kinda the same thing here, it's a very WWE-like programming. Again, if it works, more power to them. But there's nothing surprising about some backlash or tedious reaction to this announcement.

Cody replaced the promising young talent, who's not in the picture anymore it appears.

They have never been a part of Dynamite. They were always supposed to be JTTS (well, and do backstage work).

Wait, are you running AEW ? Are you Coach Tony K. ? Chasing other avenues hasn't been exactly the best business model for growing pro-wrestling promotions. Sure, the Reality TV show stuff works *for WWE*, and I would guess they do *because* they emanate from WWE to begin with (and build from there). But again, do something to get eyes on your *pro-wrestling* stuff, sure. But a reality TV show... Plus we dont know how much of AEW money is going into producing that stuff either. The issue is, the desire for an alternative in *pro-wrestling* is what drove AEW to existence and the insane enthousiasm at first. Them going straight into WWE-like ventures doesn't seem like the best idea. Also, the one thing that has been mentioned before but undersold, is that the QT angle at first seemed to be designed for Lee Johnson (with actually quite an interesting subtle angle). Now Cody is putting himself into what looked to be some undercard angle to get some light on a promising young talent, all to promote his reality TV show. Again, not coming off good, not to mention QT is way lower on the totem pole whereas against Johnson it was a much more balanced feud while having a much stronger mentor/student aspect since QT is known as the trainer of the promotion. Yeah, sorry, but I'm not a fan of any of this.

Why are you even posting here then and not on reddit ? Since apparently the PWO/GWE kind of fans are the "wrong" kind ? The "right" kind being the kind who only cares about the mainstream promotion and acts like anything that doesn't happen there is beneath him. That was answered later. ROH is still around. Promotion that almost died in Japan like AJPW and NOAH are still around. And the thing is, people are talking about doom & gloom for AEW since day 1. The Librarians and Micheal Nakazawa were gonna kill the promotions because it sent such a horrible message to anyone watching the Buys-Ins. To you maybe. To the people who work there, it sure matters. For the people who watch and enjoy their product (hi !), it sure matters. So again, patronizing tone. It's almost like the WWE mentality of "no one knows who these TNA people are", yet anytime someone from TNA showed up, they got the biggest pop. And BTW, it's kinda funny that nothing they do matters yet they are working with the N°1 company in Japan AND AEW, so I guess they matter more than say, ROH. Wait. The CORE audience doesn't matter ? You realize that in pro-wrestling, the only thing that remains once the fickle mainstream audience goes away (like they always do) is the CORE audience right ? Which is why WWE still can sell their shit, because they have a core audience who will watch it no matter how many Fiend segment they do ? If you manage to kill your core audience, you'll end up like WCW. I'm not a brand fan. If AEW suddenly produced shit I don't want to see, I'll stop watching. So yeah, more power to them if they replace the "toxic fans" by the "good fans", but why should I personally give a fuck ? The thing is, a pro-wrestling company is not Best Buys or whatever. AEW trying to be WWE is not the way you want to go. Well, it makes those people come off really unlikeable. So, if it attracts people who love to watch unlikeable people doing shitty TV shows, more power to them, as long as I can get off on mOVEZ and fLiPS. Honestly a real TV show is not even the easiest way to go. They should just sign Enzo & Cass. Or something.

Apparently Natalya came off like a star too in those Diva whatever shows. Sure meant a *lot* in the actual product pro-wrestling fan watched. I watched like five minutes or something once. I was appalled by John Cena's house. The nouveau riche vulgarity of everything was just enough to make me want to vomit. These rich people, the issue is that they are really good at making a lot of money, but really bad at spending it.

The comments under the videos are... what you'd expect. Maybe Hogan can pull that one off this year. I mean, he's only half racist apparently now.

Be happy you did not get "lockdown diaries" from rich writers telling their weekly stories of the difficulties of living during those trying times in their vacation homes on the seafront. We sure got those last year.

Again, not patronizing at all BTW. Gotta love the way you're painting the people who indeed don't care and don't like this move as idiotic fans who get off on MOVEZ and irrelevant promotion (who's working with AEW and NJPW btw, but that's beside the point, I have loved irrelevant promotions before). For fuck's sake. It's not that hard to understand why a part of the AEW audience would not like that announcement at all.

Not patronizing at all. You could have added a lolMOVEZ or something to boot. And no, I'm not missing the point. Because I know that The issue is : I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT MAINSTREAM FANS. I don't know how to articulate that point better. It seems like an obsession of people on the board lately. Super hardcore niche fans caring about "humm.... what could make those mainstream people watch the stuff I watch" (not to mentions boomer going "humm.... if only pro-wrestling was more like 40 years ago that would hook the younger generations"). I see some people who aren't even enjoying the product as it is arguing how important it is to "get the casual fans". Why do you care to begin with ? I sure don't. Why doesn't mean that : AEW's future "survival" (the idea of AEW having to "survive" is comical considering IMPACT is still in business almost 20 years in despite having been a complete business disaster) has nothing to do with them producing a fucking reality TV show. If anything, it can only make the hardcore fanbase groan. And AEW is a hardcore based promotion. If they want to be WWE, they'll go the way of every other promotion trying to be WWE. AEW should focus on making the best hardcore promotion they can be instead of trying failed experiment to chase the dragon. I mean, the Shaq *match* was fun for what it was, but it did not attract any interested new audience (aka older single guys apparently), and the TV leading to it was *bad*. Having commercials or angles promoting a TV reality show on AEW TV is not what the AEW audience wants, because the AEW core audience was born out of frustration with WWE. Hey, if that works for them, cool. If that means AEW then becomes more like WWE in the long run : not cool. Because as much as they want this "brand awareness" as they say, they have no chance whatsoever of dethroning WWE on that front. Real TV show reeks of WWE-like programming.

Funny that, how athough things change they kinda always stay the same. Bobo Brazil vs RIkidozan from 63 : chop - headbutt. No one sells. Chop - headbutt. No one sells. Chop - headbutt. This time Rikidozan registers and sells. And immediately chops back, Bobo registers and bumps. You'd see pretty much the exact same kind of sequence in Ishii/Suzuki today.

Of course, that's understood. Which makes the mutual love for Bockwinkel (who was higher than Flair on my list in 2016 I believe) kinda puzzling.

TBH, there will be a lot of dissonance anyway. For instance, you and I agree about the fact it should be strictly in-ring based (although again, there's no way cognitive bias aren't gonna play a big part in term of people being influenced by for instance what they know about this or that guy promo ability and how it will affect their view of the in-ring work, not even mentioning every other cognitive bias at play in term of cultural familiarity, mainstream appeal, ideologic posturing, sentimental attachment to a certain period or certain workers, excitement of discovering a brand new fresh favorite worker etc...), but I don't think I'm wrong when I say we'll probably have a very different approach to the matter and very different opinions on the exact same footage because of the difference of approach itself. Which doesn't mean we won't agree about some stuff in the end (the greatness of Bockwinkel for instance), but when you'll talk about "narrative" I'll talk about "flux" and we'll you'll talk about "psychological flaw" I'll talk about "pace or form mattering more than psychology", so there is dissonance anyway.

There is gonna be an audience at the HoF ? Chanting "You deserve it" at Kane ? I mean, he sure deserves to be infected with COVID, but...

So wait. There are gonna be TWO Takeover nights then TWO Mania nights ? Are then insane ? Not at all exhausting to watch, even for the most hardcore fans. With indie promotions running shows to, odds of this turning into ClusterMania ?

This. It feels like Cody is now WWEing AEW with a stupid reality show., which is the last thing AEW fans wanted. I doubt there will be an actual backlash, but it's clearly not something I'm interested in *at all* and clearly makes AEW a bit more like WWE in term of what they are (we're in the entertainment business damnit !). Funny though, as the perception of Cody went from "He's the biggest star in the company, Kenny Omega & the Bucks ain'ts hit, he should never have done the stips of never challenging for the world title" to "Yawn... Cody and another crappy segment". Not that I think the whole QT thing is crappy myself (mucho respect for QT who seems to be one hell of a trainer), but Cody sure doesn't look *at all* like he did last year. Still : _Christian, the huge huge superstar _Dark Elevation = more Dark JJTS matches _Cody & Brandi doing a reality show Time to get La Sombra & Thea Trinidad or something, because the last three big surprises have not been positives. There, since we're a board of haterz, gota do my part too for once. (yayyyy Tay Conti !)

Speaking of "obscure" but not obscure at all, is there any footage of Dara Singh ? In the short clip of the match against Rikidozan in 55, that mofo looks great.

Well, as of this year, Kane and Great Khali have to be a toss-up. Both the same year is the ultimate 1-2 punch of suck. People will talk about Torrie Wilson, but she really never was a properly trained pro-wrestler anyway.

The guy had no talent whatsoever and was an asshole about it. Where was Akira Maeda when you really needed him in the 00's ?

The fucking Lou Thesz powerbomb. In 1953. Super cool footage.