El-P

Oh, you don't think that's some kind of coincidence ? It's not like Starrcast needs any more draw at this point anyway, but yeah. More and more pettiness. It's kinda funny how small and insecure these people are.

Oh yeah. Check the Saturday stuff from, well, probably late 94, it was just before the Blue Bloods I believe.

I call anyone coming from the WWE machine into TNA at this point a WWE reject. Not as "rejected by the WWE" but as "a product of them". And again, considering how fucked up Jeff Hardy would soon become, I don't see how TNA could have done anything with him anyway.

Out of sheer morbid curiosity, I checked the first few weeks of Hogan's debut in 2010. It's amazingly awful. By week three, we already got an lame nWo reunion, WWE rejects Jeff Hardy & Ken Anderson showing up, WWE hasbeen Sean Morley re-doing the Val Venis to utter silence and disdain from the Impact Zone crowd, Bubba the fucking Love Sponge (wonder where his wife was), the Nasty Boys in some sort of meta-joke, old-ass Ric Flair soon ruining AJ Styles perfectly fine title stint, and a FUCKING MONTREAL RE-ENACTMENT, complete with Angle spitting on Hogan. Who the fuck thought this was not a disaster already ? It's amazing, like Russo was all of a sudden motivated again to be at its dirt worst (although 2009 was also mostly horrible in term of booking anyway), like he thought this was a good time for WCW 2000 redux again, because it worked so well the first time around. Amazing. And plugs for Dixie Carter's Twitter all the time, because that's important. Yeah, the company was doomed the day they signed Hogan & Bischoff apparently, the drop of quality from the last months of 2009, which got quite decent from nowhere, is insane. We're clearly in the "so bad it's almost fun" level.

Amazing. They are not a wrestling company, they are an entertainment company. Except when someone actually has credentials in the legit entertainment world, then they are a wrestling company again. Except if you show you're a pro-wrestling fan, then they're an entertainment company...

Oh, ok, I did misunderstood you. But yeah, we agree it's a matter of booking and presenting things, leading to a general sense of complete dullness.

I hear that all the time about WWE, and I don't see it. Baron Corbin has been pushed forever. Brock Lesnar was on top forever. They have been pushing Alexa Bliss (whom I really liked, but she wasn't having "great matches", even by WWE standards), they are now pushing Lacey Evans. Roman Reigns was never about having much in term of great matches either. Braun : not about great matches. And the fucking IIconics. Yeah, some great workers are having great matches. It's a good thing workers like Daniel Bryan or Charlotte Flair are pushed hard. This is not the issue. The issue is the booking, the writing and the presentation. The in-ring style of today is what it is, and honestly WWE still is far from the place you're gonna get most of the really *great* matches, because of the limitations put on the workers (and also, apart from Bryan, most of the best top workers today just aren't in the company and that's that, it seems like AJ, as good as he is, is definitely past his prime). Meanwhile, on NXT, you are getting some great matches but also some typically overproduced WWE self-conscious epics (see : the Gargano vs Ciampa feud, which did resonnate with the crowd big time though). But again, the in-ring style overall is not the issue at all.

Well yes, she was married to Chris Adams at the time, who was Gino's tag team partner. Care to elaborate a bit about Austin (although that's off topic, and I would guess maybe she had some of the same experience as Debra, to whom she ressembles a lot btw) ? Meltz mentioned in the latest WOR that Gino was pretty much so-so in the ring (can't speak for the earlier stuff, but I wasn't very impressed from what I've seen from World Class indeed), and that the Crocketts had no interest in him.

How much will they invest in the re-elaction campaign too BTW ? Yeah, that shit is crazy.

That's the issue. No personality. It's not a matter of doing moves. Everybody is doing moves. The issue is that, watching the show cold, you have no idea who the fuck these guys are and why you should care or not. And when you watch more, you certainly are sure you won't care. The other day I was watching the EP 55 of MLW. And there comes yet another skinny, smaller than me, 19 years old presumably spot machine named Jordan Oliver. Damn. Wrestling ain't what it used to be. Except, the guy showed character almost immediately. Yes, he's doing tons of cool moves. But the main thing : he's a douchebag. It took me a very short time to get he was a young douche, and I already wanted his opponent to kick the shit out of him. Seth Rollins, he's.... there. He's been booked as a geek as a heel, he's been booked as a geek as a face. The production and presentation with awful nickname and generic look hurts him even more. It's all about how people are presented. WWE presents its talent as geek, because that's the way they want them to be perceived, because the #Brand is what matters. And it's true IRL too, as showed but the repulsive Revival treatment. WWE treats people like geeks in and outside the frame of their product.

RAW has been the same for 20 years. The heel authority figure has been there for more than 20 years. The McMahons have been the main characters for the last 20 years. This is the past. Funny how Jim Cornette has been called a dinosaur and now everyone is lamenting over the 80's. Guess what, the Golden Age did not exist. Most of wrestling in the 80's sucked. We only cherry pick what was great about it. What's the most important for AEW as far as looking at the past goes, is learning from the mistakes of WCW and TNA. Like it's been said before in this thread, it doesn't take a lot actually to do a solid good pro-wrestling show. iMPACT is doing it right now. The good, logical stuff is easy. Not doing the stupid stuff of the past seems the hardest. Not doing stuff from the past, actually, seems the hardest. People don't like changes. Older people want their childhood back, basically. But it's 2019, not 1989. Fuck people's childhood, really. As far as WWE goes, the day Vince dies is the day some change is gonna happen. Or not. Probably will, to some extent.

The issue is that people, including Vince, look at the past. Not the future, not even the present. Anyone dismissing Kenny Omega for instance can pack his bags, the business has passed him by. There's a reason why the guy sold out the fucking Tokyo Dome with Tanahashi and was a big part of NJPW being as hot as it was in 2017/18 and got himself two huge contract offers from both WWE and AEW. These are the workers and characters of the 2020's.

You don't. Ever. Bischoff makes a point in explaining how Thunder began WCW's downward spiral. No one wants to watch 6 hours of bad TV every week just because you might get some "good matches".

Couldn't agree more. Which is why, at first, I had no idea what to make of the Gino episode. Of course, by the end, I was like "ok, so basically Gary Hart was right and that's that." From a narrative standpoint, I thought it was excellent. My big reservation is the last bit with the mother, which I found quite exploitative. Apart from that, yeah, it sure tells a good story, with twist and turns. The two most interesting bits are the story of the funeral told by Bruce, and Jeannie describing Gino high as a kite on cocaine, on a complete paranoia trip. First thing that came to mind when I saw Jeannie was "I wonder how much money she got from the divorce", because she sure had a crucial part in that "Stone Cold" deal... But anyway, basically, what Gary Hart told in his last shoot interview was basically it, Gino had a tremendous cocaine habit.

Of course, agreed. They have been able to do it in the past, but they had incentive to do it. They don't have that anymore.

They have showed over the last 15 years, at least, that they aren't able to write for shit. I have no idea why anyone would think they are magically gonna book something hot in 4 months when they haven't been able to do so in years, haven't been able to make a star since John Cena and their product is the coldest and shittiest it's been in a long while despite the deepest roster ever.

Dustin Thomas in the Over the Budget Battle Royal. They signed the right no-legged man. Interesting rules too. They truly want to innovate, which was one of the *right* thing about TNA early on.

Let's face it. The whole "R-Evolution" deal and PPV was simply because of Ronda. And Ronda needed to be pushed as the star to get the FOX deal. That's it. The rest is PR bullshit.

Remember when people (including some on this board) defended WWE for years with arguments like "TV ratings don't matter, Youtube views and social media followers do" Yeah. L' fucking OL, uh ?

Sting also sold record setting merch during the nWo era and his feud with Hogan ended up in with the ridiculous Starrcade 97 buyrate. Seth is not a dot on Sting's career's radar.

Corporate hypocrisy at its best. Charity business. PR bullshit. Gotta love big corporations and their awful people with no morals acting like they do something good. The responses are kinda funny tough.

The Dynasty vs Hart Foundation Tables match from Ep55 is a must see. They beat the shit out of each other, Teddy Hart did some of his truly insane stuff, really good, intense brawl with a sense of purpose (if you follow the weekly TV). And the announcing of MLW is the best today with Corny on the mic, he works very well with Rich. Pro-wrestling should have a whole lot more of this. Looking forward to watching Salina's produced episode from this week. I wonder how Teddy's cat can be so laid-back...

Well, ok then. He can be happy he's not on TV being humiliated on a weekly basis then.

Then again, I'm not sure what's the benefit of using Rhyno... At this stage of his career, he may be quite happy to get paid to sit at home too.

Yeah, it's fucked up. Also, it takes one to know one, so Bubba knew what he was up against. He was also smarter politically. PE all of a sudden didn't want to do a table spot because "They liked to dish out but wouldn't take it", which is hilarious (well, not really, but you see what I mean) considering PE made their name by taking stupid garbage bumps, and that includes WCW. So there, APA had to "made them take the spot" in the ring, which is how you do business in a line of work where you're supposed to work together and protect each other.