El-P

If you had not made the thread before, I would have totally made one myself with "Notre-Dame is burning".

No. What's amazing is some people need a fucking smiley to understand a joke.

Man, that Tracy Smothers vs Su Young match at Joey Ryan's Penis Party had me dying laughing. It's sad Tracy is in poor shape, but that mofo was hilarious. Hell, I think he managed to legit pissed off some of the audience. Well, even if that wasn't really the case, it was a masterpiece of old-ooooold school cheap heeling and taking shit on the mic. Tracy is gold.

Yeah, but you don't see Stephy holding the gun in the back. Bailey looks like she's been released from a week-end of being held hostage in a basement. Sasha's smile looks photoshopped. On the other hand, the IIconics look chill as hell. "Smile bitches, we got you now."

I wish I had Lana's fingerprints all over me too. Wait, ok, it's late, sorry...

No. I just said he was sincerely totally in the wrong. I dunno. Pro-wrestling is a niche thing now, like most things. And probably better for it. I mean, the last time pro-wrestling was super popular, it delivered some of the worst shit product ever, the Attitude Era. So yeah, let us have a really good niche thingy. Works for me. The issue with that is, for instance, if you take the whole Okada vs Omega feud in Japan, which got a hundred snowflakes, well, it is some of the most compelling shit I've ever seen told inside the ring, and people were drawn to it and the emotion when Omega won trumps anything produced this decade anywhere else. Another instance ? When Naito got eliminated from the G1 last year, which was the ultimate snowflake event ever, people were fucking crying in the crowd. Tanahashi winning at the Dome, the closure of a year's storyline ? People lost their shit. So, they must do something right when they draw big and make people fucking cry. Those are matter of facts, it has zero to do with whatever Meltz likes or doesn't like.

That's interesting. BTW Starr is someone I wouldn't mind seeing a lot more of. His match with Ishii at the Rev Pro show over the week-end was excellent.

Footnote, I totally forgot Velvet Skye was Bully Ray's girlfriend. Oooookay, makes sense.

No, it makes a whole lot of sense actually. The thing is this : in 2019, "great matches" (and MOVEZ, as people so eloquently say as if we're still in the Post Benoit Guilt era jerking off on Mark Henry's matches on the DVDVR board) actually matter a LOT to get over and/or become a draw, as showed by the who's who of the hottest pro-wrestlers around. WWE : Daniel Bryan. NXT : Ciampa & Gargano. New Japan : Okada, Naito, Tanahashi, Ibushi. Indies : The Lucha Brothers. That brand new promotion coming up : Omega, Young Bucks. All of them are "workrate" (although that doesn't mean anything in 2019 compared to 25 years ago, as we don't see plodding, slow as fuck matches anymore unless Trip works a Stadium), well, "snowflake" guys, if you will (I won't use "great match", because of course tastes may vary, but still). So yeah, everyone is talking about Enzo & Cass in ROH. To say how stupid it is and how much it sucks and how much it's yet another reason to not give a flying fuck about that promotion. As long as they don't show up on iMPACT, MLW or AEW (which I highly doubt), I'm fine with that anyway, gives me one more reason to not pay attention to ROH.

I'm sure plenty of promotions will have interest in two WWE rejects & complete failures who also are considered toxic in a locker room. ROH management are idiots. And really, if you need to be explained why ROH's audience will have zero interest in Enzo & Cass, I don't know what to tell you. Hell, WWE's audience had no interest in Cass either BTW despite being groomed for big things. Yeah, they sure "get the business" more than say, Kenny Omega and his zillions star matches who also happened to get NJPW red hot and be the central figure of a brand new promotion for which he got a huge money deal and office position. Yeah, Cass totally is more valuable than Workrate God Daniel Bryan too, with whom he couldn't managed to have a decent match BTW. And Enzo, well, he got off a sexual assault accusation just because the accuser was not strong enough, but he's a known fuck up and awful pro-wrestler, he surely knows better about the business than, say, Johnny Gargano and his zillion stars matches over the last year, who managed to get the biggest babyface sustained ovation in years in WWE. Oh, I've just been informed than they actually never drew shit and got fired because they both sucked at their job and as human beings. Damn.

Yeah... Maybe it was done in jest too. Anyway, how is that different from 2 times HOF Shawn Micheals refusing to lose pretty much *every title he ever won in the 90's* in the ring and acting like a baby about it ? Oh, yeah, they actually did the job. That makes them more professional that Mr. Mania, at worst.

That's brutal ! Coming from Rusev, it's also kinda... not very nice. It's not like you endeared yourself either...

The story sounds like every sleazy "rat" stories from the "good ol' days". I've heard way worse from guys who are loved by everyone... Still, yeah, comes off really sleazy, of course, especially these days. *groan* Come on Callis & D'Amore, you don't have to sign every damn crappy Canadian wrestler around. First recent iMPACT signee I absolutely don't care about.

Agreed. First match I saw of him with the hands in pocket, hilarious. By the third time of him doing the exact same spots... well, it kinda got old. Joey Janela's second night of Spring Break had a very good Tanaka vs Park brawl and that incredible (all things considered) LAX vs Rock'n Roll Express (Ricky Morton doing a Canadian Destroyer was something else). The Clusterfuck was way too long though, and way too much indie guys I did not know to really be amused for long stretches. The ending was cool though. Janela truly is a mad scientist. Thus far, and I doubt it is gonna change much, MJF has clearly been the star of the week-end as far as character goes. Ethan Page also really grew on me. Nothing like Riddle or Ospreay's amazing week-ends last year though.

Yeah , everybody is shitting on ROH for bringing those guys. Good job indeed. Sorry, , but it's "But david Arquette got us mainstream press" level of "understanding the business".

Wait. So there's a bisexual nazi pro-wrestler-fucker around ? The world is full of surprise.

Ok then. Crazy answer though !!!

Which means ?

Sucks for her.

Well, I for one think Alexa Bliss is a super solid worker at worst, and actually really good. That's also the huge difference between her and the IIconics. Their act is more polished than Sasha & Bailey together, sure. But their act is undercard comedy goofs. And really, Sasha & Bailey don't really need an "act", they are two strong individual acts. Well, should be still, but their booking has been horrendous last year. The tag team titles booking has been nothing short of a disaster anyway, with only a bunch of multi-women matches involving a bunch of terrible workers on PPV instead of actual hot tag-team matches.

I'm kinda surprised they did not adress at all the racism issue (the stuff he said to Mark Henry) during the Micheal Hayes episode. Nor the fact he's not a favourite of Stephy & HHH. Well, not that surprised. But it's not like there was much to say about Hayes in WWE unless you want to get deep into the creative process of the 00's, which they did not do.

I guess the current way of looking at things is : _fans who criticize WWE are idiots who should accept whatever they are fed _employ independant contractors who aren't happy with the WWE are crybabies and marks and should accept whatever they are told Yeah, we're really deep into the "Brand" era, where people just brainlessly defend a brand they like. The next phase of übercapitalism where brand > brain.

I dunno, everytime I hear the HTM argument about a shit worker getting a title, it's like... It was 30 years ago. In a very different context, for a very, very different audience. Yeah, the IIconics can be kinda funny, especially Billie Kay, but they are just goofs and portrayed as such. Take the Beautiful People in TNA in the late 00's. Angelina Love was a solid enough worker who could kick a girl in the face in make it look good. Velvet Skye was never very good at all in-ring, but she had the heel charisma, she was unbearable, rubbing her crotch on the ropes, striking stripper poses and generally being a complete annoyance, you'd beg for Amazing Kong or ODB to slap the fuck out of the bitch and powerbomb her into oblivion. The IIconics, they come off as minor goofballs. As far as Sasha taking herself too seriously, it's funny how people are never happy with anything. Lesnar not giving a fuck is not good. Sasha giving too much fuck is not good. I dunno, I'm gonna use the good-old "you've never been inside the ring" argument on this one. It's her life passion, she's been at times very good at it, she also has the charisma of a top name. Yeah, maybe she's right to give a fuck. Most of the best guys in pro-wrestling history probably gave a fuck. It's nothing new how WWE can suck the life out of people.

IIconics are a joke. Both are awful in the ring (Peyton being the worse of the two) and are a comedy act. Putting the belts of them so early without Bailey and Sasha getting some lenghty reign does make the brand new revolutionnary title look like an undercard comedy prop no one should care about indeed, two months after its creation. So really, let's no try to pretend Meltz is calling them bad because he's hot at Peyton Royce for this silly matter last year.

Yeah, but that makes it even funnier to me. As of right now, AEW is still a fantasy as a company (well, not really as it does exist, but you know what I mean), so it can only be the greatest thing ever, still.