El-P

Until you mentionned it, I never even thought about Aj or the Bellas as being "latinos". They look like "white" girls to me. Diversity in looks ? Probably. But hell, you had Gail Kim a few years ago. But I don't remember any black girl being pushed as a legit superstar (and who wouldn't be referred as "the first black woman superstar" of course, which would be patronizing as all hell). But that's beside the point. Sasha should be pushed because she simply as *it*. Not even coming to her own music on RAW makes her "just another girl" from the get go.

I didn't realize Charlotte was that "old". So yeah, seems like pure nepotism indeed. She's not that good of a worker. She doesn't have much charisma (as a babyface at least, from what I've seen), she's doesn't seem to cut strong promos. Her act has gotten way more Ricflairish that it was before, if I judge by what I've seen. And let's be honest, since it does play a role no matter how you twist it, she's not that attractive either (looks like David). The whole Sasha Banks / Rihanna deal is exactly what it should be. Then again, when was the last time a black woman has been pushed as a star ? The very fact they put three "ethnic" (stupid word) girls together for no reason other than skin color tells you as much as you need to know, sadly. Vince is supposedly stuck into the Floridian-aryan stereotype of what a hot woman is supposed to be (that being said, seems like Lana is in the doghouse now).

Saw Enzo & Cass for the second time. I still get that NOA/Too Cool/Dudleys feel out of them. It's not a good thing in my book BTW. I hate chant-along routines, it's fun a couple of time then gets annoying as hell quickly. Especially chant-along spots. Well, at least they don't do anything as stupid as the WORM. Enzo strikes me as a mix between Road Dog, Scotty 2 Hotty & DDP. Does a good job as a face in peril though. Cass on the other hand, I have no idea what's his role apart from cleaning the ring. He's Enzo's Jim Neidhart, although I doubt Enzo has any chance on the main roster. Comedy guy in a matter of a few months. Is Carmella usually still with them ? The act is kinda funny, but doesn't have any leg or depth to me. The star of the match was Chad Gable as far as work goes. No idea who he is, but he was a lot of fun.

I just watched this week NXT, and there were two women's match on it. And I ask myself this question, how many of these girls are really that good ? Because honestly, Carmella vs Eva Marie was awful. Eva Marie is drop dead gorgeous, but she's no worker. Carmella, no idea. She wasn't as over as when she comes out alongside Enzo & Cas (is she still with them ?). And then there was a four way match between Charlotte, Becky Lynch, Emma & Dana Brooks. Not impressed by Dana. Charlotte, not a big fan either especially because her entire gimmick nowadays is being Ric's daughter. The Wooo, the strut, the chops, the figure 8 (?), the kneedrop. Way too much referential gimmicky too me, it's not doing her any favour, and doesn't put over her athlecisism. Ok, Becky's good, and I like what I saw of Emma too. The ending was odd though, Emma seemed surprised to have won, and the annoying "for the win" of the announcers, followed by an awkward reaction tells me that there was some screw up there. If not, well, that was pretty odd. Anyway, my question for the regular NXT followers, what is the consensus on all the girls ?

The spot looked awesome when I saw it during the PPV. On slow-mo, watching Sasha landing square on her head, no, not so awesome. It was botched. Botched moves than can result in bad injuries are not awesome. It's that simple. It's not a matter of morals.

This.

Do they get humiliated next week on Raw and then fired ?

Yep. Except that one time where they had Fit Finlay vs Chris Benoit with the winner going against Saturn later in the show for the TV title. Finlay got over, but not with the crowd, who died a horrible death immediately. But yeah, of course match order matters a lot in how the show flows. SummerSlam's ordering was instance, was piss poor. Among other things, of course.

Yeah. That Jon Stewart screwjob was totally worth it.

Ok. So, what was that big deal about ? The New Day are awesome. The trombone was hilarious. Ok so... oh fuck. The Duds. So, we're back to that old "hey, remember the REAL stars, from when there were REAL stars, back 15 years ago when Trips was ruling the world ?" mentality. I never cared for the Duds. Cool, "we want table" and "wazza" spots in 2015. How fresh. At least they brought both guys this time, which prevent the racist bit of having a token black guy play D-Von like at the Rumble. Couldn't care less, but hey, the Duds are real stars. It's twice as old as bringing the LOD in 98, but what can you do ? So. The Wyatt family have their own Big Dick Dudley now ? Cool. Guy looks like Phineas Godwinn on growth hormones. Looks like a shitty worker to boot. I get a Kurrgan vibes from this crap. Wait, Kurrgan at least looked kinda freaky. No, seriously, this was bad and absolutely unimpressive. Too bad, the Wyatts getting together was cool for three minutes. Poor girls. That Miz segment. That match. That crowd. That being said, bitching in tweeter about it really makes them look like, well, little whining bitches. Where the fuck was Sasha Banks anyway ? Poor Lana. She used to look like a star. Gotta love those skirts who won't lift at all during a catfight, there's a secret somewhere, you know it wasn't like that back in 2000, when wrestling was hot (cf The Duds). Yeah, that Ziggler spasming selling was hilariously bad. Why is this guy considered a good worker by guys like Cornette, Meltz, Austin and pretty much everyone in the business ? I don't think I've ever seen a guy with that much waisted motions (and I don't mean in a cool kinda way like RVD). Is Big Show going back to WCW ? That's why he insisted on screaming "I'm a Giant !" lately ? Stephy switching from bayface back into heels in the same promo. These people don't give a shit anymore. Stephy looks more and more like Vince, which makes the cleavage disturbing, kinda. Ok, so, as I was advised, fast forward until the unveiling of... oooooh ! That guy who was a star 20 years ago. And who got beat clean by HHH at Mania and shook hands with him. He's back and he's pissed off ! Cool. Another matter of "back when we were kings". Why does he get a title shot BTW ? Didn't settle his differences with the Authority at Mania ? Didn't he lost his only match in WWE ? Ah, who cares. RETROMANIA is running wild, brutha. (wait, the Ultimate Warrior, of all people, got a statue alongside Andre & Bruno ? WTF ? All because he died just after the Hall of Fame ? Holy shit) Ok, back to normal folks.

It's been said earlier, I don't know if WWE people realize that in their WWEUNIVERSEBRAND bubble, but the term "diva" when you talk about a woman (hell, or a man), is a pretty negative, derogatory term. Makes all these woman sound like they are some big-headed obnoxious annoying bitches. That's what a diva is, unless you're working in the classical lyrical realm.

I wouldn't really recommend it but if you do, you should absolutely fast forward through every word of that last talking segment until they do the reveal of what's under the sheet. Damn. Because I was thinking, sometimes those post-Mania RAWs are better than the PPV, so... Well, thanks for the warning. I'll watch that tomorrow (the advantage of watching the next day is that I can fast-forward, and also I get to read the entire thread of comments and bitching over here, which can be more fun that the PPV's)

So yeah. Here I go. Orton vs Sheamus. Everything dull and boring and wrong about post mid'00 WWE, from the looks to the presentation to the style of work. Thanks for reminding me this was still around. Orton is STILL a black hole. His Viper deal is even more stupid looking as a babyface. Robot wrestling. Tag team Title match. Why wasn't this the opener ? New Day are awesome. Amazing how they went from a truly embarrassing gimmick to the best act in the company (undercard at least). Them golden shoes ! Xavier Woods cracks me up every time. And I guess most of this is adlibed, which is why it sounds fun. Clusterfuck of a match, but one hell of a fun one. Big E was terrific here. Too much cool shit to go into details. Totally fun multi-men total nonspot action match. And the right guys won. Rusev vs Ziggler. Tell me again why I should care about Billy Gunn 2.0 ? He actually managed to have a poor match with Rusev, who at points looked like he was trying to have a match by himself. Poor Lana. The point about her dressing up exactly like her new guy was funny. Yep, now she dresses poorly, and shows no charisma as a babyface. I was waiting for Joey Styles to scream the catfight call at the end. Bad. Get Lana & Rusev away from Ziggler. Amel/Neville vs Stardust & Barrett. Life's short. I have no idea who Amel is, nor do I care. I however do know who Stardust is, therefore this gets not one second of my life. IC title thriple threat. See above. These three guys won't get a second of my life. Nice color scheme as always on Ryback, who looks like the most jacked up leprechaun ever. Wyatts vs Ambrose & Reigns. Fuck, finally some action. I liked it very much, Bray is much better in this tag context. Ambrose was the star of the match though, and I thought Reigns really didn't bring much apart from doing a hundred Superman punches (which is an acceptable stupid spot when you do it once) and flying clotheslines. This guy is so far removed from being the Ace they wanted him to be. He's Luger in the Allied Powers at this point. Didn't the crowd boo him quite a bit each time he tagged in ? Cena vs Rollins. Dig the white outfit. Yeah, this is the usual Cena match, all action back and forth spotfest, in which Rollins totally shined. I couldn't care less about him working like a babyface, he's a heel with cool offense, deal with it and the crowd loved him here. Cena was awkward to watch at times, as always, but it worked until they got into the usual WWE deal of, well, ya know the drill, including some nice dubious selling on the part of both guys during the finishing stretch, worst being Cena no-selling the frog splash basically. And then, as soon as Jon Stewart hit the ring, I though "WCW finish + swerve". And right I was. The execution of Stewart was godawful too, and I don't mean only the chairshot but also the way he "hesitated". Awful and stupid finish. WCW 99 kinda shit. But thankfully, even more stupid was to come. Good match until then (like this better than the Owens matches too). Three teams womens matches. I said it already, the way the girls have to take turns doing their own routine in front of the camera makes them look like so inorganic. Poor Sasha. Lost in the shuffle. And I actually like Nikki, but really, the best worker of the previous night (well, of both nights actually) just being "another girl" here. Well... At least we didn't get Stephy cutting a promo, or simply walking down the ramp looking annoying. Decent match, but... Owens vs Cesaro. Yeah, probably the second best match of the night. Again, all action spotfest, but a really good one. Nothing bad to say about this one. Too bad the crowd was dead by this point. Taker vs Lesnar. What can I say ? As far as a monster beating the shit out of an old guy, this wasn't Vader-killing-Inoki level of fun, but this was way better than it had the right to be. Although of course, by the time they got into spamming finishers and kicking out of it, I got bored and it became sadly predictable and WWErrific. Still, Lesnar laughing his ass off and Taker doing that demonic laugh in response was kinda great. Taker going MMA wasn't, but it never was. And that finish, oh, that finish. I was rolling, really. Did they hire Vince Russo to book the two main events ? This is straight out of WCW 2000. The apex of fuck finish. So, I enjoyed the tag team title match, Wyatts vs Shieldy, Cena vs Rollins to a degree, Owens vs Cesaro (well, it was probably the match of the night after all), and Taker vs Lesnar to a degree. In term of show, it dragged like crazy. In term of booking the big matches, it was hilarious. In term of production, yeah, when the opening guy on NXT has a better intro than *anyone*, Taker included, on this show, there's a problem (not to mention the usual stuff like the epileptic camera and the rotten announcing). Takeover smoked this seven ways to sunday of course, and the two main events there were better than any match at the (yo Bret) SummerSlam. The crowd was also much much better. Well. I guess I'll have to watch RAW, just so I can see how they manage their third show there.

Because the match itself was telling me enough that I didn't need to know anything more to get engaged, basically. So it totally worked as watched in a vaacum. That's the mark of a great match too.

Wrong thread Will. Don't spoil SummerSlam for me. (watching it tomorrow night, spoiler free, but I get the feeling it could be a long-ass time)

And while everybody is watching SummerSlam, I watched NXT Takeover tonight. Some thoughts : Liger vs Breeze : each time I watch a NXT Takeover show, I mark out for Tyler Breeze's entrance. Just awesome, sexy, obnoxious and relevant to today's (sub) pop culture. Kinda sad Liger got a generic music, but watching him at 50 in a WWE ring was quite amazing in its own way. Good match, and Liger doing the selfies was just priceless. Yamada is so great. Cool that they would put him over. Vaudevillains vs Blake & Murphy : someone said earlier in the thread that Alexa Bliss was to her team what Trish was to Test & Albert. Totally agree. I still have no idea who "Blake & Murphy" are supposed to be. Nondescript guys with nondescript names. The Vauds, on the other hand. Well, that shit is awesome, and I like the fact the announcers (who aren't good, but well, at least they made a nice point there) said they actually were some hipsters, and not guys from the 20's. COme on, you know that's what would have happened 20 years ago. Anyway, Gotch is terrific. Nice little match, but I really didn't care at all for that Blue Pants deal, and the girls interaction lacked timing big time. I still like Alexa quite a bit. Corbin vs Samoa Joe : snoozefest. I don't see shit in Corbin. He's got nothing interesting. Joe looked at times really gased out and sloppy, and really kicking ass at others. No idea if he can still go but this certainly wasn't it. Appolo Crews vs Dillinger. No idea who these guys are, I understand Crews comes from ROh or something ? Anyway, cool athletic and power spots, so he's a guy that would fit right in LU too. Fun semi-squash. Sasha vs Bailey. Well, I'll get back to this since it was the unofficial main-event. Balor vs Owens. I thought it was excellent, if not more. And I'm tired of ladder matches. I liked the fact Balor spent less time doing his intro, who can get grating. Actually the music doesn't fit his character to me, but anyway. Thought Owens was terrific and that this smoked all the overrated Cena matches. I really liked Balor too, working at the right pace, and cringed for his ankle each time he did his footstomp spot (I injured my right ankle two weeks ago, jeez, I cringed and cringed each time he landed on Owens and sold afterward). Ok. So. I thought Sasha vs Bailey was a terrific match. Despite some execution issues, especially on Bailey's part. And two or three spots looking awkward because they demand too much cooperation, Psychosis-circa-96 style, or just asks for the reciever to act stupid (I don't see why Bailey couldn't remove her hands from the steps). But, in term of building drama and working toward an epic finish (I didn't say self-epic), with so many moments of pure badasserie (neologism) mostly on the heeling part, with an actual simple storyline developping (the injured hand), yeah, it was still the MOTN, and yeah, in term of the whole being better than the sum of its part, I thought it was terrific. Was that a *great prowresling match* technically speaking ? Not sure, especially since we know these matches are deeply rehearsed. But who cares at this point ? Randy Savage and DDP were doing the same thing years ago, and they won. That's how things are done in the 21st century. So. MOTYC ? I dunno. Great match ? Not even sure (also at least excellent or ****, if that's what you're aiming for). But it's moments like that making me think that pro-wrestling can be great. And another thing. There was this whole boring, pseudo-intellectual debate somewhere about context mattering or not elsewhere. Ok. I don't watch NXT TV. I have zero attachment to Bailey, and as a heel fan who enjoy sexy biches from hell like Mima Shimoda and Oz I would cheer for Sasha anyway if I did follow the show. Yet, and despite me just getting a kick out of every great stuff Banks was doing in the match, toward the end, I got to the point I really wanted Bailey to win, and actually felt good about her winning. So yeah. Context my ass. That's exactly when pro-wrestling is great, when you don't need the context (which can never get to complex anyway, let's be serious). No context, no emotionnal attachment or familiarity with Bailey's character, loving the *work* of Sasha, yet in the end, was legit happy the babyface won. That's how it's supposed to be. That's why it was great too. About the "curtain call" hommage at the end, I thought it was both stupid (from a booking standpoint for the characters) and cool (for those girls as human beings) Like the original one I guess. But I really wonder what they will do with Sasha on Raw. This girl is a star, there's no two ways about it. Stomping on the hand while Bailey was reaching for the rope had me legit marking out. Steph should go fuck herself for still trying to steal these girl's heat. The announcing is dull as fuck. I have no idea who is who, it's like listening to three Micheal Cole. Matt Striker can be annoying, but at least he's got some personnality. Well, of course it's still better than the WWE announcing with the annoying JBL and the almost dead Lawler. I don't think I enjoyed a WWE show "as it happened" as much since... let's see... SummerSlam 98. Yep. The two main events were just a terrific 1-2 punch, Liger was a treat, the Vaudevillians winning was cool, Appolo's debut was fun. And yeah, the show looked way fresher than any WWE stuff. Still needs some work (announcing and shit like that), but I may get to watch the TV for the new season. This must have been way fun live.

I remember that match. Insane. Big Japan was really fun as the renewal of Japan hardcore sleaze. Shadow WX I could do without, he wasn't much of a worker, but the team if Homna & Yamakawa were the coolest mothas of this scene at the time. Winger was decent. Really good match indeed.

Not speaking spanish at all, that totally went over my head. However, I did learn what "tossing your salad" meant while listening to Konnan, and for that, I'm forever grateful.

Well, thanks. I'm both moody and lazy, which sometimes produces some bad stuff. Sorry about that when it happens.

Damn, I didn't see that one. Ah ah !

I'm an ECW fan, so I don't hate the style. I don't think Spike is good at much of anything but be thrown around like a rag doll, and even that gets old after a while because I can't stand the character so I have zero interest in what happens to him. Total one trick pony to me, his single matches consist of him trying to hit his one annoying spot (which wouldn't be as annoying if he had anything else worth a damn in his repertoire). I can't stand the gimmick, which is something I went through in great lenghts in the past already. Mediocre at best worker, annoying as fuck character. Balls is a decent worker ruined by his godawful gimmick of trying to permanently maim his opponents by hitting them with ridiculous unprotected chair shots to the head. I thought it was retarded back in the days, it's even worst today. It's too bad because of all these guys, he's probably the best worker if you take the gimmicks away. And yeah, like Tim Evans said in his review, Balls took insane bumps just for the sake of it, in a proto-Abyss (the stupidest "mainstream" worker ever in my book) way. As soon as you get the gimmicks away from Balls, I enjoy him much more (cf his matches with Matt Striker in WWECW for instance, which were fine and kinda fun too, final chairshot aside) I think the Duds were complete garbage worker, and I'm not talking about the style. Bubba is decent but was much more fun as a goofball fat guy bumper before teaming with D-Von, who's just plain bad. They got better in the WWE, and there I'm getting both redondant and irrelevant since I was supposed to tall about Balls & Spike. (and yeah, I know some people love Spike, including Dylan who has him in his top 10 ECW workers ever, we discussed that to no end a few years ago already. )

So, from the Yearbooks, they had at least four matches together. Since I had to go search for it myself, it's this one : http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28425-dudley-boys-vs-spike-dudley-balls-mahoney-ecw-061799/?hl=%2Bballs+%2Bmahoney So that would be their first. Then you have the Heatwave match, on which I actually left a comment on last year. Then two more. It's after the Heatwave debacle that I gave up and fast forwarded through their stuff (I mean, I already had to watch the Duds vs Balls & Axl earlier in the year and I think in late 98 too after the feud with Dreamer & Sandman ended). So, no dice, I actually saw the "famous" Chicago TV match. So my opinion of this combination sucking comes straight out of it. It could have well have been from another one, but since it's the first of the series, yep, I watched it. Awful match. Terrible team.

3. Does a podcast. Taker should vanish forever. No speach. That's what would make him unique to the end.

When did Yatsu fell off a cliff already ? I like him even passed his prime (hell, I like him in SWS), but in 86 or so while teaming with Choshu, Yatsu looked like one of the best wrestler in the world. And then whooop. He's kinda the Barry Windham of Japan, although he fell much quicker and was never as good as Barry was once he did.

No idea which match it is exactly. It's been a while ago, and like I said, all those Dudleys vs Balls & whoever totally blended together to the point I wouldn't bother. Yeah, pretty much what I thought looking at those. Now, this one in particular watched in a vaacum and not on a binge ECW watch, I have no idea what I'd think of it if, and I emphasize the if, it's one I actively fast forwarded through. That being said, both Spike & Balls were pretty much unbereable to me on their own already, so...