El-P

From this thread, it seems like basically, the guys with the most footage should win. At this point really, I take a great Bock match over a great Flair match, and that's what matters to me. Hell, I take a good/very good Bock match over your regular Flair-o-rama.

He was pretty damn dull in New Japan when he toured in 93 or so, last time I checked.

The thing is, people got used to see Bret Hart and Sting use the scorpiondeathlock as a instant finisher, usually only at the very end of the match. There was not much in term of teases (although Bret would do it more in big matches), and the hold was sold as instant death in 95% of the case. So it's kinda hard to adjust to the way Choshu used it in retrospect, but it made a lot of sense. First, that hold was not instant death back then. You could stay in it for a while. It could be the finisher, but not necessarily (and really, not that often because big names would not lose clean in the 80's, and especially not by submissions). Choshu also made it a struggle all the time, usually by having to fight to roll the opponent on his stomach, and usually putting pression on the legs/ankle/knee during the first phase. And then, Choshu used the sasorigatame kinda like Jake would with the DDT in term of teases, it was fitting his sudden offensive style, going for it quickly and as much as he could, at key points during the match. So yeah, very different use than Bret and Sting did later. Once you get used to it, there's really nothing wrong about it at all.

Most probably, in no particular order : Top 3 : Stan Hansen Jumbo Tsuruta Terry Funk Then a mix of : Toshiaki Kawada Nick Bockwinkle Kiyoshi Tamura And : Mitsuharu Misawa Kenta Kobashi …. dunno if I would add any women since I haven't watched joshi in forever, but I guess Aja, Jaguar, Bull or Hokuto could fit the bill too

That is totally her.

You didn't compare all-time great Stan Hansen with all-time shitty RVD, did you ? (yeah, I agree about Brock BTW and feel the same way about his work, and about the "tool" aspect of RVD's work, in more ways than one. Totally disagree about Hansen though, but you already knew that)

The only reason Tenryu did more various thing while Kawada didn't is because All Japan were isolationnists. When Kawada touched something different (like it's been said with Allbright), he was brillant. Tenryu worked everywhere, so of course it appears like he was more varied. I have zero doubt in my mind that Kawada would have had a better match with Onita than Tenryu had in 94. And Tenryu is one of my all-time favourites.

The two worst Armstrong together. Hell no.

Well, she still kinda repeated the "I started the Monday Night Wars" line that was thrown for the HOF… Anyway, I thought the Table for 3 was decent, I would totally have a beer with Madusa (who's cool as shit and has so many stories about Japan to tell) & Mona (who's adorable and has a great laugh). Ivory… well. Can be funny or annoying depending on whether she can stop talking for a minute or two.

Schoolgirl bully never gets old though.

It's been well established by now that Mero got from "green and awful" (from his own account also, as told in his shoot interviews) when he debuted to "quite decent and having good matches regularly" by 95 because he cared about improving. Jealousy is a sad thing. Did he deserve the big garanteed contract ? No. But then again, he's not the first guy who got money because of his looks rather than his ability. Add the fact he was married to the really hot girl and yeah, the boys wouldn't handle that well I guess. Add to the fact he got on TV during the Benoit debacle and was not throwing around WWE's company line, so yeah, he's one of the "bad guys".

Best 10 minutes match ever, still.

Fuck these people. The guy beat up his girlfriend several times, until he beat her to death. Every three days of so, a woman dies because she gets beatten to death. This is bullshit. Fuck these people and fuck Snuka.

:( Hopefully the Queen will win this one also. Fuck that cancer shit. But great that she spoke out. I'm just...

He was a mediocre spot worker with bad promos. The heel turn made everything ten times worse, with the godawful feud with Sting, but he would have been Gangrel in WWF, really.

I love how every three months, the "Austin at Mania" rumour comes back. It just won't go away it seems.

Royal Rumble jumped the shark some decade + ago. The trolling aspect is what made it fun the last two years.

You should apply for a writer's job at WWE then.

And not even Vince McMahon buying WCW ? Color me disapointed.

Where is that quote about wrestlers not doing anything the old-grandma at ringside wouldn't be able to understand already ?

I totally understand why you'd lean toward Bock instead of Flair (and after watching tons of Bock, put me in the same boat), but I totally don't understand why you'd find it lacking as far an Hansen goes.

I couldn't disagree more. Hansen's style is everything wrestling should be and it works against *everyone* : Andre, Luger, Martel, a young Kobashi, ace Misawa, Funk, Backlund, Inoki... I can watch Hansen against anyone and never get tired of him. I still don't get why him and Jumbo of all people never clicked though. So yeah, Hansen, Jumbo and Funk (Terry, of course) would be battling for N°1. (and speaking of favourites : Flair has a shot at top 20. Lawler has a shot at making the list)

Moi content.

Totally bland, dull and boring show. Nothing really bad, but nothing really good. The best part were Xavier's trombone spots, which totally cracked me up, and Nikki Bella's übershort outfit. The rest, blah... Owens vs Ryback. I don't see shit in Ryback. This was a decent opener. Good selling from Ryback, but really, is that interesting or compelling in any way ? The power spot to get out of the hold was pretty poorly done. Right man won. Rusev vs Ziggler. Summer needs to eat something. She's also not a very good actress. This match was not as bad as SummerSlam, but really Ziggler sucks. A trillion superkicks. What is this, a Young Bucks match ? Rusev deserves so much better than this. Finish was so goofy and idiotic. Now women heels are lethal, just like in 96. New Day vs Dudleys. Dudleys doing their thing in 2015, ZZzzz…. Like I said, Xavier's craked me up. Best act in the company still. Decent match again. Can the announcing just shut the fuck up about the Attitude Era already ? Nikki Bella vs Charlotte. I'm sorry, but I enjoy Nikki, she's one of the best heels in the company. Nice legwork. Those suplexes looked cool. Charlotte's selling is really good. Yeah, good match until the finish, which really sucked. I mean, that spear was awful, and after being worker on the leg for 10 minutes, she puts on her finisher which uses said leg and Nikki taps in a few seconds despite taking almost no offense ? Yikes. They tried to make it a special moment with Flair showing up, but Ric crying is such a gimmick at this point. It worked in NXT. Not there. Charlotte should be renamed "Ric Flair's daughter" at this point, she has zero personnality of her own, they even put the freaking Wooo on her tights. At least Stephy didn't show up. Wyatts vs Shield & Jericho. Well, at least it's not Orton. And we know who does the job to whom too. Honestly, at this point I was burned out (bored out ?). Braun Strawman is ridiculous. He's Kurrgan. Waste of time. Not as good nor fun as previous match, because of the useless goofy monster. Always odd for me to see older Jericho BTW. Cena vs Rollins. Usual Cena finisher spamming match. I'm bored at this point, despite Rollins terrific white outfit. Turn this guy babyface already. Cena's post match actions reeks of jerk heel. What a terrible babyface. Rollins vs Sting. Seriously ? Sting looks old as hell, but since he took some big (and stupid) bumps, people are gonna call this good ? Ok, Rollins made him look better than he had the right too, and he still looked old and slow. Sting in the WWE is a complete failure, really. Rollins needs to turn babyface and get the Shield together and… oh, fuck, I forgot about Sheamus… damn… oh fuck, Kane ? Are they shitting me ? What a godawful ending. So yeah. Mediocre show. Bland. Dull. Same old same old. I guess the next 4 moths are gonna be of the same ilk before Mania season kicks in with the Rumble and the yearly troll of the hardcore audience.

Mystery partners are *always* a let-down. Orton or Kane totally fit the bill.